Addressing some of the remaining RvR issues

[Anolytic]

The patch today finally gave us the Battle Groups and moved tagging circle to defender. We’ll have to test how the battle groups work, but both of these changes should help negate some recent exploits and hopefully help make screening «griefing» less of an issue. 

 

Some glaring issues still remain however:

 

4th rate PBs

First of all, 4th rate PBs. 4th rate PBs at the moment are pointless. Even with the new Battle Groups, entering 4th rate port battles is all but impossible as attacker unless you have a vast numerical superiority. SORRY proved this, and in this case I must commend them for even attempting. Their attempted workaround by teleporting to the regional capital at Puerto Plata almost worked. I warned of this possibility already when the wipe patch was announced

yet I cannot fault SORRY for testing it and it was very conscious that this was never put in the tribunal by Danes. In this instance they rather deserve praise. We had considered doing a test of it ourselves, but found that  for 1st rates they would be so slow to make it unviable. 

While the devs removal of teleport to regional capitals fixed this issue as well as hopefully the easy smuggling into enemy capitals which we have seen all over the place, 4th rate PBs still remain as useless if not more. A 4th rate fleet simply cannot get through if defenders use lineships in screening to tag them.

However much other nations may feel like Sweden and Danmark are buddies on the EU server, war between the two of us has been constantly considered, on both sides, and the strategies of such a conflict considered. A part from our capitals being simply too close on the map, one of the dominant considerations that Danmark has had to make, is that Sweden has almost only 4th rate ports on their front line near Gustavia. With the amount of players one would face in screening anyway when fighting so close to capitals, this is simply guaranteed to make any offensive an exercise in futility.

To make it simple, either lineships need to be removed from screening in 4th rate Port Battles, or 4th rate Port Battles need to be removed altogether. My suggestion and personal preference would be that port battles are made lineship ports only (+shallow PBs as exception), and that instead 4th rates and all other classes of ships - except 1st rates - are used for raids. 

My complete proposal is that conquest is changed slightly to a different system, and that the current PB mechanics are used for surprise raids with flags instead where screening is less of an issue.

I wrote my proposal up here a while ago. Mainly it’s the second part, proposal B:

The benefits of this system I believe would be a more fluid and dynamic RvR-game. where attacking and being aggressive is rewarded, whereas the system we have now rewards primarily the big nations that just sit back and protect what they have, with the advantage of numbers, screeners and OP towers in the PB, destroying the fleets of hard earned ships by those who are brave enough to leave their home regions and seek conquest and Port Battles far away.

 

Defending is too easy

This brings me to my second gripe. Which is that defending port battles is too easy. With the advantage of screening fleets, circles and towers and forts, and not having to sail through the open world to enter the battle, defenders have it too easy. The attackers take all the risk and have very low chances to receive reward, which isn’t even that great either. Defence is the thing that require little sailing and little effort. I’d rather have 60/40 win percentage in favour of attackers than 70/30 in favour of defenders which is probably what we have now if not less. Instead of making defence really easy, give those who loose a region a fair chance to take it back after a week.

 

Retreating

I’ll let Liquicity, Tommy Shelby and others say what needs to be said about revenge ganking in open world. I share their concerns and second their opinions even though I am not as badly affected. Hopefully invisibility and speed boost after battles will help with the issue. 

But the issue of revenge fleets is also present after port battles. The way that the SORRY Aga fleet was able to be destroyed after the PB at Puerto Plata, by danes and our hired help, is simply not good gameplay. The fleet that fails to take after a brave attempt at offensive conquest, should not be forced into OW afterwards to be picked apart and killed. This will happen even in 1st rate port battles soon enough, as a fleet that lost 5 ships in an easy target to tag and kill as it attempts to make its escape.

 

Victory Marks

It is too early to say something definitively about the new Victory Marks. Let’s test them for a couple of weeks. 

However, I will list some of my initial concerns here. Hopefully I have misunderstood some of how the map winning thing will work.

 

The crucial quickfiretest of the Victory Mark system is asking this question: How will the USA nation on the European server, ever aquire Victory Marks (except by using British/Spanish alts), and how will they get L’Oceans or Ingermanlands or Niagaras? Or blueprints?

If «map winning» is really about being the biggest nation, accounting for important regions, the system will A) encourage alts in the largest nation at any time, and B.) mean that every noob who logs in regularly in the biggest nation, be it Spain, GB, Danmark or Sweden, will be able to sail around in L’Oceans, while the hardest working most skillful and dedicated RvR-captains in USA or Dutch will never see a L’Ocean or an Ingermanland or a Niagara.

 

Simple question, what road does USA have towards winning the map, even for 1 week? Is it achieveable even if they are successful in conquest one week?

 

In Danmark we had a communal system with conquest marks, which meant that every player of every clan had a reasonable way of get access to whatever permits they wanted without needing to force their way into a PB in a subpar ship, or jump through hoops. We were also mere weeks away from being in a position to start putting ships, all the way up to 1st rates, on the open market, for the benefit of every Danish national player that couldn’t easily get permits on their own. 

 

With the Victory Marks introduction, this now seems like a lost ambition. Unless we decide to join the rush to rob Spain of some ports in the gulf, just for the heck of it even though they cannot put up a defence, even our RvR-players won’t see any more L’Ocean permits generated for a long long time. Let alone the beautiful Ingermanland or the OP shallow ships the Niagara and Heavy Rattlesnake.

Btw, what is the point of Lord Protectors now? Even if your nation wins the map, as Lord Protector you get no more reward than a PvE-er or a Kadet in your nation never sailing more than 40 map units from the capital.

Could Lord Protectors at the very least get a daily allowance of Combat Marks as reward for all the hard work?

Edited July 17, 2017 by Anolytic
HKing smileys

[Abram Svensson]

Personally i like the 4th rate Portbattles, because i like the ships and they offer new players a lower risk than lineship battles. If Raids offer the opportunity to sail them i wouldn´t mind then.

I would be sad if the 4th rates disappear, but must admit it makes sense at the current state.

I like the idea of "medium shallows" or "reefs" maybe more. They could be added to the 4th rate ports in the area in front of them, large enough so lineships need to screen in a large distance and cant enter to close to the port.

 

Just my thoughts on this.

[Skully]

37 minutes ago, Anolytic said:

A 4th rate fleet simply cannot get through if defenders use lineships in screening to tag them.

We countered this by splitting the 4th rates and sail through the SoL fleet. Should the SoL split up, some pickings will present themselves. 

[Guest]

Agas only cost combat marks (150) for the permit now, so 4th rate PBs have become quite readily available - for everyone - even if it's tougher to get in. Though on the other hand the lifting of conquest mark requirements on larger ships means that SOL screening ships will be more commonplace too. 

[Hodo]

Defending is to easy... sorry I loled at that part right there.

 

As a point, typical doctrine for most military training around the world is, "Any attack on a prepared position should have at least 3:1 numerical advantage before the assault begins."  

So if you are going to attack a port that has 25 defenders, bring at least 75 people to guarantee your success.

[Archaos]

2 hours ago, Intrepido said:

That is why we need alliances back.

If US or Dutch jon the winning side, they will get the victory marks.

The problem with alliances is you will get only two power blocks so you may as well just have 2 nations in the game. You will probably also get the larger nations forming an alliance rather than fight each other and this will cause an even bigger imbalance.

[Prater]

I'm fine with 2 power blocks.  It means we can keep our nations and flags while playing with/supporting other nations.

[Archaos]

5 minutes ago, Prater said:

I'm fine with 2 power blocks.  It means we can keep our nations and flags while playing with/supporting other nations.

That was what we had before wipe and it was a failure. I think the current unofficial diplomacy that goes on now is more interesting that what we had before. At least now you are not forced to accept the majority of your nation, you can still do your own thing.