What is the point?

[Kultteri]

Why even do PVP anymore? Why even play the game as all the big clans only have access to the lineships?

Currently everything is so limited and the only thing that an infrequent player can do in the game is to just bag some AI and do trading. Wnna do PVP? Sure, let me give you this shit ship against all the BS ships with all the way too overpowered upgrades, bow figures and such. Now, to just say this before anyone brings it up, I have NOTHING against 1 dura ships, I think they are a really good idea and will make you more cautious in battle against others. The problem is that as soon as you leave the battle either victorious or the enemy has ran away, you cannot teleport to closest friendly port anymore. WHY? What is the point if you know that there will be some others waiting in the open world to just gank you straight after. I remember the days before the wipe as we would happily sail to an enemy port to get some PVP going on and have a blast fighting other ships even outnumbered and running away or fighting to death. Now when you managed to run away no matter where you were, you were rewarded for that. You could get straight to the safety of a port. Why was that removed? Oh let me guess. Everyone was complaining how their precious little prey got away from their huge fleet of frigates and lineships. If you manage to do that you definetely should be able to get straight to safety. In real life you ran away from something you were not just teleported to the middle of a million ships, you actually got away from them FOR GOOD. PVP is really only limited to the few stray ships that linger to your capital, for the casual players that is.

Yeah and about the lineships. Why do we have these conquest marks in? Or even the combat marks? I do sort of understand the combat marks that you can buy upgrades and such with them but the pricing is way out of line. So what I've heard is that only the bigger clans control the conquest marks as they are the only ones really even allowed to get them. It is just stupid. When I first played this game back in 2015, I of course wanted to get bigger and bigger ships as I progressed with the game. And finally reaching the rank of rear admiral and getting my own victory, it felt good let me tell you, even though I used it very rarely. Now it seems I cannot get the ship, nor can I get my favourite, the Bellona. Why? Oh I guess it is the port battles, which were just 1st rates vs 1st rates. That is understandable BUT atleast they were balanced which is the key factor to any video game. I've never done any port battles as I have no interest in them to start with as everything is so controlled and it takes a long way to sail something to the port that you want to fight for. I'll be honest, I don't have the patience for it.

How to fix this then? Give the teleport to closest friendly port back after battle, get rid of conquest marks and combat marks and make the upgrades craftable again or just simply make everything more accessible to the casual players, that means lowering the prices for everything or increase rewards.

All in all, I respect the developers trying to make the game more realistic but there are so many more simple ways to achieve that and which will actually make the game fun again for moments like these: http://plays.tv/video/5890f8453a2b8c09dd/-d 

Edited July 13, 2017 by Kultteri

[Vllad]

Maybe you should be more clear what kind of PVP you actually want. It sounds to me you want to gank some people than not have to suffer getting ganked in return.

Lineships rarely have any impact to PVP accept for lineship port battles. In the OW they are darn near useless. So what point are you trying to make with lineships and PVP?

The pvp is better today than it was 18 months ago. More tentative? Yes, but it also has presented way more tactical options for ow pvp.

[Mrdoomed]

You are stuck with revenge fleets. 

[Kultteri]

3 hours ago, Vllad said:

Maybe you should be more clear what kind of PVP you actually want. It sounds to me you want to gank some people than not have to suffer getting ganked in return.

Lineships rarely have any impact to PVP accept for lineship port battles. In the OW they are darn near useless. So what point are you trying to make with lineships and PVP?

The pvp is better today than it was 18 months ago. More tentative? Yes, but it also has presented way more tactical options for ow pvp.

PVP for the casual players like me, yes we do ganking but extremely rarely and max ships we get are 3-4. and normally I go PVP with just a single friend of mine. Also I'd like to enjoy PVP just playing by myself when there is no one around. Revenge fleets have always been a sort of a problem. But the problem is that you wont get away from them anyway as you have no safety after you've outran them once. As I stated about the lineships, I rarely used them, the Bellona being an exception, just the fact that its is nearly impossible to get them for the casual players.

[Puuruoska Pete]

This is for the sailors who lost their lives today. They died because some of us refuse to do what big clans tell us to do. they did not die in vain but taking many enemies with them. but more important, they may have opened some eyes in world of Naval Action. In sea they rest till world comes to end.

[Hodo]

2 hours ago, Kultteri said:

PVP for the casual players like me, yes we do ganking but extremely rarely and max ships we get are 3-4. and normally I go PVP with just a single friend of mine. Also I'd like to enjoy PVP just playing by myself when there is no one around. Revenge fleets have always been a sort of a problem. But the problem is that you wont get away from them anyway as you have no safety after you've outran them once. As I stated about the lineships, I rarely used them, the Bellona being an exception, just the fact that its is nearly impossible to get them for the casual players.

It isnt impossible to get line ships just difficult.  You can get them, but know what Port Battles are coming up, talk to the clans in the region that are building hostility, and see if you can help.  If there is a defense PB then hop into that with a ship that can win in.  Join the VOIP of the clan calling the shots, listen to the commands, do what is needed to win, even if it costs you your ship.   Most clans will give you a replacement ship if you lost yours in defense of a port and it was successful.    Or learn a valuable subskill like mortar brig, show up to a PB in a Mortar Brig.  There are very few PB where one of those that is good, isnt welcome at.  

You can do a lot as an privateer (individual non-clan player) in NA.  It isnt easy being a privateer, but if you wanted easy you would join a clan.  

 

 

[Vllad]

5 hours ago, Kultteri said:

 As I stated about the lineships, I rarely used them, the Bellona being an exception, just the fact that its is nearly impossible to get them for the casual players.

Based on your play style I am unsure why you would want one? They are completely useless as a PVP ship. 

[Sir Texas Sir]

9 hours ago, Vllad said:

Maybe you should be more clear what kind of PVP you actually want. It sounds to me you want to gank some people than not have to suffer getting ganked in return.

Lineships rarely have any impact to PVP accept for lineship port battles. In the OW they are darn near useless. So what point are you trying to make with lineships and PVP?

The pvp is better today than it was 18 months ago. More tentative? Yes, but it also has presented way more tactical options for ow pvp.

We use them in PvP when we know it's going to be a numbers game.  IF we are going to be out number we bring the big guns out to fight, but even than most of them just run, but a good mix fleet is great.  I have a speed Bucc for PvP like that, to be honest the bigger 1st Rate Port battle ships are the worse to bring to PvP cause they will never catch up with the action with every one doing a speed Meta for the most part on OW.

5 hours ago, Kultteri said:

. As I stated about the lineships, I rarely used them, the Bellona being an exception, just the fact that its is nearly impossible to get them for the casual players.

Bellona is not good for solo PvP, maybe in a group that isn't just you and your friend.  Every time we see something like a 3rd or even 2nd rate and we are in 4th/5th rates we see an easy target.  

3 hours ago, Hodo said:

It isnt impossible to get line ships just difficult.  You can get them, but know what Port Battles are coming up, talk to the clans in the region that are building hostility, and see if you can help.  If there is a defense PB then hop into that with a ship that can win in.  Join the VOIP of the clan calling the shots, listen to the commands, do what is needed to win, even if it costs you your ship.   Most clans will give you a replacement ship if you lost yours in defense of a port and it was successful.    Or learn a valuable subskill like mortar brig, show up to a PB in a Mortar Brig.  There are very few PB where one of those that is good, isnt welcome at.  

You can do a lot as an privateer (individual non-clan player) in NA.  It isnt easy being a privateer, but if you wanted easy you would join a clan.  

I have so many CM's collected up and a good stack of all the permits right now that I'm starting to make 3rd rates for none clan members that want them and can't afford the bigger ships or crew them yet.   You just need to ask.  You might pay a little more if you don't have all the mats yourself, but if some one comes to me wanting a 3rd built I'll do it for push of the button if they bring the mats and LC and a little compensation for the CM's for the permits.  We still have our good stash of permits on hand and mats to replace any ships we loose as a clan so spending some CM's on permits to help out other folks not in our clan only helps the nation out.  That and we have given every captured 3rd/Bellona we gotten to other clans so far.. Thanks to the US and Brits of course;)

12 minutes ago, Vllad said:

Based on your play style I am unsure why you would want one? They are completely useless as a PVP ship. 

Wouldn't say useless, but agree with you on the solo small group it's not an good option.

[CaptVonGunn]

10 hours ago, Mrdoomed said:

You are stuck with revenge fleets. 

ONly due to Devs not caring about it....

[Vllad]

1 hour ago, CaptVonGunn said:

ONly due to Devs not caring about it....

It is a player made problem that is easily fixed by players. If I was a dev I wouldn't care about it either. 

[CaptVonGunn]

1 hour ago, Vllad said:

It is a player made problem that is easily fixed by players. If I was a dev I wouldn't care about it either. 

Players have no control as a group over teh Revenge Fleet issue.. You can't stop people from going out and camping a Battle location.. All the ideas we have come up with are shot down either because it is to hard to code or not realistic.. WHile talking about an unrealistic mechanic. It is created by the fact that open world speeds are insanely faster then in battle and everyone that saw it start knows EXACTY where the people will spawn back in.. 3 sec invis is not enough when your dealing with a dozen or more Speed fit tagging ships...  It was bad enough last year.. now with a speed cap.. it is just silly you cant even expect to have a faster ship

 

Edited July 15, 2017 by CaptVonGunn

[Kultteri]

I do use the Bellona in PVP if we have atleast 3 ships, or atleast I used to thanks to pirate refit it was easy. But now we have the new damage model so frigates will think twice to attack a lineship. 

Main problem currently is that you can't  really run away anymore, and that is stupid.

[Skully]

11 hours ago, CaptVonGunn said:

You can't stop people from going out and camping a Battle location.. All the ideas we have come up with are shot down either because it is to hard to code or not realistic..

Engage the revenge fleet with another fleet or lure the revenge fleet away.

Even if you are solo, bringing an ally doubles your force. 

Each side has equal opportunity to camp a battle location.

[Vllad]

11 hours ago, CaptVonGunn said:

Players have no control as a group over teh Revenge Fleet issue.. You can't stop people from going out and camping a Battle location.. 

Revenge Fleets are a primary source of PVP. They are easily disposed of because of the risk they create to themselves by setting up to stop someone in the instance. We trap and kill revenge fleets all the time. They are super easy to split as well because they are all spread out. All of the most fun fights I have had killing a larger fleet with a smaller one always derived around revenge fleets. Revenge fleets are a tactic not a design flaw. You just need to use your imagination to come up with a counter tactic. It isn't that difficult. 

 

11 hours ago, CaptVonGunn said:

It is created by the fact that open world speeds are insanely faster then in battle and everyone that saw it start knows EXACTY where the people will spawn back in.. 

They are created because of voice com's which are NEVER going away. It is a waste of time to try and combat this. The players can easily deal with this issue and as of right now it provides the most ow PVP over any other method. 

[Vernon Merrill]

4 minutes ago, Vllad said:

Revenge Fleets are a primary source of PVP. They are easily disposed of because of the risk they create to themselves by setting up to stop someone in the instance. We trap and kill revenge fleets all the time. They are super easy to split as well because they are all spread out. All of the most fun fights I have had killing a larger fleet with a smaller one always derived around revenge fleets. Revenge fleets are a tactic not a design flaw. You just need to use your imagination to come up with a counter tactic. It isn't that difficult. 

 

They are created because of voice com's which are NEVER going away. It is a waste of time to try and combat this. The players can easily deal with this issue and as of right now it provides the most ow PVP over any other method. 

Thats some great excuse making for shitty game mechanics...  But I appreciate the effort.

 

[Toad King]

The only thing i agree with on the original post is that they do need to make all content available for the casual player even if it takes a "little" longer not near impossible. Should the players/ clans doing the biggest work on the front lines be rewarded more absolutely. I say bring back port battle rewards ie: resources, upgrades, rare trade goods, w/all ways marks based on the type of port battle (ie: 15-25 shallow 26-50 4th rate, 75-100 SOL). rework the blueprints exchange rate as combat marks the only form of currency in  the Admiralty market. keep PVE rates the same so the grind is still there but still possible to get those end game ships.

[Liq]

Quote

Revenge fleets are a tactic not a design flaw.

Edited July 15, 2017 by Liquicity

[Vllad]

27 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

Thats some great excuse making for shitty game mechanics...  But I appreciate the effort.

 

I have yet to see anyone list one shitty thing about revenge fleets.  

Let me list some the positives; 

Source of PVP, gives a group the ability to control the waters, best way to protect ones traders and best way to make privateers move along, risky if you are caught by another fleet, brings people out to the open water, best way for a smaller fleet to beat a bigger one, gives a way for multiple clans to cooperate, good nation morale builder, gives a reason to have good team work and probably most importantly over anything else it creates news tactics to use in OW. 

 

[Anne Wildcat]

I've seen plenty list negatives about revenge fleets. My solution, getting rid of tps between national outposts or bringing back a cooldown would reduce them.

 

what I'd also think would be good is get rid of entering ports, you still have docks there and structures but have it so on the OW, you pull up to a port, can use the port menu, switch ships, and such, but you are still on the OW. That way you can see who is everywhere and stopping at a port could be risky.  

[Cimbi]

1 hour ago, Anne Wildcat said:

I've seen plenty list negatives about revenge fleets. My solution, getting rid of tps between national outposts or bringing back a cooldown would reduce them.

 

what I'd also think would be good is get rid of entering ports, you still have docks there and structures but have it so on the OW, you pull up to a port, can use the port menu, switch ships, and such, but you are still on the OW. That way you can see who is everywhere and stopping at a port could be risky.  

Making an already bad game mechanic to worst.Great idea!

[Anne Wildcat]

Time millionaire? Lol, I maybe play 6, at most 10, hours a week.  Only weekends as well.  Maybe resources could be better distributed so large nations could base out of an area. Bringing back a cooldown on tps will, in my opinion, reduce revenge fleets. Hopping from Great Corn area to KPR, imo, is idiotic. 

[Anne Wildcat]

1 minute ago, vata said:

from my point of view sailing 1 hour (any reason like economy, mission, defend the port etc...) all the time from Great Corn to KPR when you need it is idiotic if you have only 6 hours to play weekly

its better to use a teleport instead of waste your playtime with only sailing...

you could have more fun getting pvp using teleport with your 6 hours weekly playtime

 

The problem with instant teleport, with no cooldown, is there is no PVP bc not many have patience, everyone hops here and there.  If you only want action, which is fun, maybe wait for NA legends.

[Anne Wildcat]

And stop allying with neighboring nations! That kills the ability to find PVP closeby. 

Brits, attack those Dutch, if you are down south.

France, go attack Denmark (PVP Global)

[Bragan Benigaris]

Really don't understand what these fixation on the teleports is good for...

Living mostly on Kidds Island, using Free Ports (no tp) as base of operations i spend some of my 12-14 hours per week on the water - but still the bigger part in battle instance. Only exception is when i trade/smuggle or resupply. If I'm in a hurry, i use my Fir/Fir Lynx and reach most of my bases within half an hour. And sometimes you find really good prey on your way... ;-)

[Anne Wildcat]

OW PVP two options

If you want it close, don't ally with neighboring nations and go to the borderline with your big ships & fight. 

If you want to go to distant enemy waters but don't like the sailing time, use smaller ships.  Right now on Global, my home waters is France but I'm currently hunting around the Florida keys in a snow.