Repeated Tagging Issues

[Malachy]

6 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

The problem of freetowns is not about PvP, Ganking and other reasons players give. It causes problem with wars, RvR. We had full PB fleets teleporting from freetown to freetown. Hostility generation in the middle of enemy territory from freetowns etc. 

Current mechanic is harsh for OW PvP players, but it actually makes borders more important. You want to PvP in enemy waters? Set your base in freetown and dedicate yourself to that region. For me it's harsh as for ship builder that needs to be around to build ships for clan. I know many pirates living in freetowns, for them it works. It also makes traders and players in home waters more safe from enemies. Before we had tons of players camping every freetown. Even worse! We had players with 5+ outposts in freetowns and just jumping from one to another looking for prey. Current mechanic is a bit harsh for PvP but makes sense and is a compromise.

Its not a compromise, but more of a death blow to open sea pvp. I for one do not have the time to sail to a free port every time I want to pvp. I need to run out my economy every day for ship building etc, I have about an hour or two after that. If I want to raid, the whole damn night is wasted just getting into position. 

[Archaos]

Just now, Malachy said:

Its called a blockade. The British and the French did that for thirty years. If you want to play that game, you can, or you could go to a port that didn't have an enemy at it. I actually never got tagged by those guys cause if you timed your run with the wind, the 14 second timer allowed you to get into port without getting tagged. It was never a serious problem except for noobs who tried to go in close hauled. 

But how do you class such play as PvP? Historically how many blockades were done deep in enemy waters far from support? and if a large force came out to face them were they able to run into port to escape? No they had to sail away with the enemy chasing them.

[Malachy]

Just now, Archaos said:

But how do you class such play as PvP? Historically how many blockades were done deep in enemy waters far from support? and if a large force came out to face them were they able to run into port to escape? No they had to sail away with the enemy chasing them.

The British kept the much larger French fleet bottled up for thirty years in the French home waters. Some of the french ports were far from support from other British units. So it's got plenty of historical merit. Free ports are just that, free. If you don't like someone camping there, force them to go inside and camp there yourself for half an hour to make sure they go away.

[Malachy]

The fact of the matter is, this is a pvp game and this new concept is stifling pvp. If it's such a huge problem, they need to find another solution that doesn't waste people's time. PVPers need to have a base option  near enemy territory and we need to be able to move freely back and forth. And most of the time the enemy is far from home waters.

Edited July 9, 2017 by Malachy

[Archaos]

The channel fleet kept the French bottled up so I would hardly call that far away from support deep inside enemy waters and the ships that did the blockade were not there to fight a superior force but to race back to alert the main British fleet so they could intercept them. So please do not try and justify it historically. In actual fact there were very few if any free ports so if you go down the historical route we should get rid of free ports altogether. I am sure if there were any free/neutral ports they would not have lasted very long if they allowed enemies operate out of them.

[surfimp]

7 minutes ago, Malachy said:

Its not a compromise, but more of a death blow to open sea pvp. I for one do not have the time to sail to a free port every time I want to pvp. I need to run out my economy every day for ship building etc, I have about an hour or two after that. If I want to raid, the whole damn night is wasted just getting into position. 

Actually, if it gets you into position to raid, then it's not really wasted is it?

5 minutes ago, Malachy said:

The British kept the much larger French fleet bottled up for thirty years in the French home waters.

The point is that they couldn't teleport from Falmouth to do it, they had to actually sail there. And if whatever port they were blockading wasn't seeing action, they couldn't then teleport up or down the coast to another, they had to sail there.

Naval Action has always, since the launch of the OW, been about sailing. We've only had teleports removed to the extent they are now for a few weeks, and people are still adjusting. But teleports of ships and/or captains absolutely wrecks so many parts of the game. RVR, trade, OW PVP, revenge ganks, etc. all get much worse when people can teleport ships and/or captains. It's an OW sailing game, if you hate sailing then you need to wait for the arena game.

[Archaos]

4 minutes ago, Malachy said:

The fact of the matter is, this is a pvp game and this new concept is stifling pvp. If it's such a huge problem, they need to find another solution that doesn't waste people's time. PVPers need to have a base option  near enemy territory and we need to be able to move freely back and forth. And most of the time the enemy is far from home waters.

So whats the problem with basing yourself out of a freeport and raiding? Stay there raiding and I am sure you will soon find plenty of people coming to PvP you. The problem is people want easy pickings of traders and run when any sort of force turns up to challenge them.

[Malachy]

4 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

I tell you how I do it, but I know it's hard. I build ships / do economy once 3 days. I gather 2000 hours and build then ships from accumulated hours. Rest of my time I usually soend at freetown in enemy waters. Lots of repairs, few ships (you are not forced to sailing one ship, just get your few favourite PvP ships to freetown. Set an outpost, get repairs, come back in cutter for next ship you want to come in). Personally I use Lynx 15 knot for speed travelling. It cuts travel time by 30-40% at least. I can come back for economy any time in my lynx and get to freetown quickly again. It can save you 1-2h of sailing. That's just another idea. 

I've done this, still doesn't deal with what happens when a clan mate needs cannons or a ship built. Maybe bring back teleports to and from free ports but put a cool down on them, can't teleport out again for an hour or something.

[Malachy]

6 minutes ago, Archaos said:

The channel fleet kept the French bottled up so I would hardly call that far away from support deep inside enemy waters and the ships that did the blockade were not there to fight a superior force but to race back to alert the main British fleet so they could intercept them. So please do not try and justify it historically. In actual fact there were very few if any free ports so if you go down the historical route we should get rid of free ports altogether. I am sure if there were any free/neutral ports they would not have lasted very long if they allowed enemies operate out of them.

I'm referring to the southern French ports, Toulon, marseille etc. that's how we got the battles of trafalger and the nile. And those squadrons were there to engage and destroy. Gibraltar was the British version of a free port.

Edited July 9, 2017 by Malachy

[surfimp]

Just now, Archaos said:

So whats the problem with basing yourself out of a freeport and raiding? Stay there raiding and I am sure you will soon find plenty of people coming to PvP you. The problem is people want easy pickings of traders and run when any sort of force turns up to challenge them.

Exactly. It's like the request is this: "I want to be a level 50 crafter in my safe home waters but then I want free teleport to enemy waters so I can PVP"

It's not an unreasonable request, but when everyone can do it, then we might as well just have the arena game because the OW is pointless.

[Archaos]

Just now, Malachy said:

I'm referring to the southern French ports, Toulon, marseille etc

Would not have been possible without Gibraltar.

[Archaos]

I do a lot of trading and not being able to teleport to free towns has a big effect on traders too. Prior to the wipe, most of my outposts were in free towns as that is where most of the trade goods are. But I realize the reason they removed the ability to teleport to freetowns and adjusted and now have to sail in OW to those freetowns to buy trade goods, making me a juicy target for raiders.

[surfimp]

@Malachy I think what I'm really hearing is that you need to tell your clan they can't keep you tied up "in the kitchen" all the time, waiting on them hand and foot delivering them ships and cannons on demand. You deserve some "you time," to go out with your friends and have a night on the (free) town. It's all part of having a healthy relationship, right? And if you clan isn't providing that for you, maybe you need a new clan.

As a single, independent and successful pirate, I do what I want, sail where I want, craft what and when I want. You deserve that kind of respect and independence too.

[Malachy]

4 minutes ago, Archaos said:

Would not have been possible without Gibraltar.

Which was a base deep in enemy territory. Also the brits used Sicily and Malta to base units in the med. those were even more similar to free ports in game. So there's plenty of historical precedent.

[surfimp]

2 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

I have a simple solution for this. Make us avalaible to teleport out of freetowns to our other outposts, but not able to sail out of port. Just to trade / craft ship etc. That would be enough for me. For example I can teleport from La Navasse to Kingston Port Royal to build a ship for my friend, gave him some money or make some cannons for him, but I cannot undock from KPR. I need to tp back to freetown and set sail from there.

You know, that's a great suggestion. I've never understood how the "Bank of the Caribbean" ATM network can give me access to my gold supply wherever I go (while being completely un-touchable if I get boarded or sunk), but I can't collect a goddamn purchase contract unless I return to the port I placed it. How does that even make sense? (I mean, I get it as a gameplay mechanic, I'm just saying it's not consistent with the "worldbuilding" implied by the ATM system)

[Archaos]

Just now, Malachy said:

Which was a base deep in enemy territory. Also the brits used Sicily and Malta to base units in the med. those were even more similar to free ports in game. So there's plenty of historical precedent.

Those were not free ports, they could have been captured at any time. If you want to raid KPR then go capture Pedro Cay and you can happily teleport in and out of an outpost there to do your raiding. If people at KPR dont like it they have the option of capturing it back to prevent you. With freetowns this is not an option.

[Mrdoomed]

One big problem ( made 100x worse by no cooldown teleports )is that there are a million ports. They are so abundant and close to each other its almsot impossible for players to not have outposts within revenge gank teleport distance to any battle.  With so many players addicted to ez mode instant travel i made the suggestions that we be able to teleport BUT only to key ports in a region and the rest must be sailed to, this too was poopooed by the gankers. 

I suggested let us tp TO ALL ports again but put a simple 60 minute cooldown to stop constant revenge tags and ganks this again was shot down. I mean to tag attack and fight the battle is practically an hour so the cooldown is almost nit noticed if youre a legit player but troubles the gankers so it is painfully obvious that gankers are pulling the string.

Make half the ports "open" ports ( like realism ) where you conduct business on the water and your ship isnt suddenly pulled into a magic vortex of the 4th dimension where it cant be attacked while you wait for your faction to tp in and gank the hunter. Agsin this was shot down...hmmmmm who runs the dev team?

[Malachy]

10 minutes ago, Benedict Ahhnold said:

@Malachy I think what I'm really hearing is that you need to tell your clan they can't keep you tied up "in the kitchen" all the time, waiting on them hand and foot delivering them ships and cannons on demand. You deserve some "you time," to go out with your friends and have a night on the (free) town. It's all part of having a healthy relationship, right? And if you clan isn't providing that for you, maybe you need a new clan.

As a single, independent and successful pirate, I do what I want, sail where I want, craft what and when I want. You deserve that kind of respect and independence too.

I shouldn't be forced to choose between having fun or doing Econ or helping clan mates. This is a game and games exist for enjoyment. This restriction is putting a serious crimp on my enjoyment.

[Archaos]

2 minutes ago, Mrdoomed said:

One big problem ( made 100x worse by no cooldown teleports )is that there are a million ports. They are so abundant and close to each other its almsot impossible for players to not have outposts within revenge gank teleport distance to any battle.  With so many players addicted to ez mode instant travel i made the suggestions that we be able to teleport BUT only to key ports in a region and the rest must be sailed to, this too was poopooed by the gankers. 

I suggested let us tp TO ALL ports again but put a simple 60 minute cooldown to stop constant revenge tags and ganks this again was shot down. I mean to tag attack and fight the battle is practically an hour so the cooldown is almost nit noticed if youre a legit player but troubles the gankers so it is painfully obvious that gankers are pulling the string.

Make half the ports "open" ports ( like realism ) where you conduct business on the water and your ship isnt suddenly pulled into a magic vortex of the 4th dimension where it cant be attacked while you wait for your faction to tp in and gank the hunter. Agsin this was shot down...hmmmmm who runs the dev team?

I proposed a solution of letting players log off after a battle but it would mean that they could not attack anyone after logging back in for 30 minutes unless they went into port first. But the gankers do not seem to like this either, because although it means that they can avoid the gank fleet it also means that it interrupts their ganking. They want to be able to choose easy targets till it gets too hot then log off till it cools down and then start again.

[Mrdoomed]

16 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

Could they teleport in and out? Could enemy fleet safely dock to Sicily / Malta while chased by British fleet?

As far as i know nobody could teleport in the 18th and 19th century.  Human teleportation only became a reality about 7 months ago.

Isnt it odd how some people want such realistic everything and demand they even get splinter damage "real" but are perfectly ok with stepping into a transporter and beaming themselves to gank a player?

This isnt directed toward you , just the "realism " debate between you twobmade me think. 

[Malachy]

9 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

Could they teleport in and out? Could enemy fleet safely dock to Sicily / Malta while chased by British fleet?

Again it's a game and most people with a job don't have time to spend their entire play time sailing from one port to another. Not everyone lives in their parents basement.

[surfimp]

5 minutes ago, Malachy said:

I shouldn't be forced to choose between having fun or doing Econ or helping clan mates. This is a game and games exist for enjoyment. This restriction is putting a serious crimp on my enjoyment.

No one is forcing you to choose between them, but like the rest of us, you can only do one at a time.

What's wrong with crafting for a few days, then going hunting for a few days?

[Mrdoomed]

9 minutes ago, Archaos said:

I proposed a solution of letting players log off after a battle but it would mean that they could not attack anyone after logging back in for 30 minutes unless they went into port first. But the gankers do not seem to like this either, because although it means that they can avoid the gank fleet it also means that it interrupts their ganking. They want to be able to choose easy targets till it gets too hot then log off till it cools down and then start again.

We used to be able to log off for work or family without sacrificing our ship up untill a few months ago.

Thats how i played and survived was being able to log off after the 3rd hour of being reveng tagged lol. And yes the gankers ( same old guys) hated it and demanded it be gone so they could get thier lazy kills.

This has become a lazy mans collection game and it shows by the population. 

[surfimp]

2 minutes ago, Malachy said:

Again it's a game and most people with a job don't have time to spend their entire play time sailing from one port to another. Not everyone lives in their parents basement.

I have a job, wife, children, home, income property. I'm doing pretty well at real life. I enjoy whatever time I have to devote to this game. Sometimes it's a lot of hours per week, sometimes it's none, sometimes I leave for a year and don't think about it while I'm gone.

[Guest]

I'd appreciate it if the discussion could move back towards solutions on how to fix the tagging mechanics. Whether or not we have teleports doesn't change the fact that a group of 8+ players can keep someone stuck in the battle/tagging cycle as long as they want to.