naval no action

[admin]

1 hour ago, Hodo said:

If you lose you get nothing.  If you draw you get nothing.  

 

same in EVE, and you cant even capture player ships there. 

[Neptune]

So I guess we should go play EVE since this is what the game is trying to be? I thought this was Naval Action not EVE. 

[ironhammer500]

5 minutes ago, admin said:

same in EVE, and you cant even capture player ships there. 

But in Eve Pvp is fun, why? Because i know it wont matter if i lost my ships because if i turned up for a battle did my part and died in combat i would be compensated by my "Corp" Clan for my duty, in this game replacing the loses is so much harder for crafters while in Eve they could pump out 200-300 ships for massive battles only real value was losing important Moons for mats.

Economy in Eve works because of one simple thing, the way to produce stuff is cheap and easy, shipping and hauling while it has risks is easy, crafting small ships is super easy and requires minimal setup from crafters.

Edited June 16, 2017 by ironhammer500

[Justme]

28 minutes ago, King of Crowns said:

ya know what devs....... sadly the majority of players are of this attitude. all the people that play this game are mostly casuals that want to come home que up for their battle play 1 or 2 and log off hopefully you guys can accommodate these players with the arena game. people are to lazy to figure out how to play a game correctly any more. the generation of gamers that used to rise to the challenge of a game is now the minority( we can thank COD for this). When it comes to gaming these people want it easy and fast. and if its hard then they will just quit. as is stated above in this message from alakrana.  so maybe we just need to have 10 duras on  all ships and just give everyone 20milion gold worth of redeemable and lets see how many people start playing thing game. people want the welfare system put into place for them in all matters of life...im sure this will make a good easy to play game for you......  #great job care bears.

Because your such a hardcore gamer right?

 

 

[Teutonic]

Just now, admin said:

same in EVE, and you cant even capture player ships there. 

I'd say the main difference of my eve online experience to Naval Action's experience is this. I will take an example of a Cruiser/BattleCruiser class in Eve being a 5th rate class in Naval Action. They are "similar" in the sense of their costs for what they do.

I search for PvP in Eve with a Cruiser/Battlecruiser --> can take me 5 minutes to 1 hour to find PvP
I die in Eve --> Takes me 10-20 minutes to get money or resources to buy/build a ship (30-40 minutes for a Battlecruiser).

I search for PvP in NA in a 5th rate --> usually takes 15minutes to 2 hours to find PvP
I die in naval action --> Takes me 2-5 hours to get money or resources to buy/build a ship

 

While Eve has it's gankers and it's own problems, I can replenish my losses A LOT faster. It's painful to lose ships in BOTH Eve Online and Naval action, but I can get a new ship in eve faster than I can get one in Naval Action. again, My problem with multiple durability was NOT that ships were inexpensive, but that when a player was sunk or captured they still "Owned" the ship.

From my point of view, you want to save this game? Makes ships cheaper, make lineships expensive, everything else should be super cheap. people will still complain about losing their ship, but if they see that they can get the materials or gold to buy a new ship in...let's say 20-40 minutes, they will do it. Currently they "see" that it takes 2+ hours or having to wait for labor hours for a day or so to get their ship back and they decide to stop playing.

 

[Kaos]

3 hours ago, admin said:

Naval Action Legends addresses the important problem. It removes non combat elements and open world. 
Players who love hardcore challenge and the caribbean will stay in the caribbean
Players who hate sailing and hunting and ganking will play in the legends

Its like coca cola light and normal coca cola - we satisfy both crowds without compromising (tainting) both products with features that those audiences don't want

A better analogy would be - vegetarian curry, and beef curry. No restaurant mixes them to satisfy both vegetarians and beef lovers. We tried and wasted some time doing that. Now everyone will get their own perfect dish.
 

When do you start making this beef dish? You made perfect containment game for your plant lovers (80-90% OW players who spend majority of their time pve'ing around) and now that this crowd is covered with plenty of grass to eat, we'd like some wolf meat!
Also this thread in a nutshell:

[Prater]

15 minutes ago, ironhammer500 said:

But in Eve Pvp is fun, why? Because i know it wont matter if i lost my ships because if i turned up for a battle did my part and died in combat i would be compensated by my "Corp" Clan for my duty, in this game replacing the loses is so much harder for crafters while in Eve they could pump out 200-300 ships for massive battles only real value was losing important Moons for mats.

Economy in Eve works because of one simple thing, the way to produce stuff is cheap and easy, shipping and hauling while it has risks is easy, crafting small ships is super easy and requires minimal setup from crafters.

What is the rule in Eve?  Don't sail what you can't afford to lose.  Also, Eve doesn't compensate your ship loss, your corporation does.  So make your Naval Action clan compensate you for your ship loss.  Admin has no control of that.  Yes, I agree the economy in eve is a lot easier to get into.

[ironhammer500]

Just now, Prater said:

What is the rule in Eve?  Don't sail what you can't afford to lose.  Also, Eve doesn't compensate your ship loss, your corporation does.  So make your Naval Action clan compensate you for your ship loss.  Admin has no control of that.  Yes, I agree the economy in eve is a lot easier to get into.

The point is supply is always higher then demand due to how easy and quick it is to make a ship, i think a T3 Battle cruiser would be made in a bout 1hour or so. And the money for buying one made in like 10 mins or less.

[Teutonic]

23 minutes ago, Hodo said:

No but their economy works.  And the payouts from winning are usually better.

Kill someone with a good ship worth several million ISK in fittings and implants, and you can break bank.   

Yep, Eve's economy is an economy in a game that hardly any other game can achieve without some serious overhaul.

Exactly, You can break the bank in eve, but from my 6+ yrs of eve experience, I was always able to get enough isk to buy a new ship faster than anything I've ever replaced in naval action.

21 minutes ago, ironhammer500 said:

But in Eve Pvp is fun, why? Because i know it wont matter if i lost my ships because if i turned up for a battle did my part and died in combat i would be compensated by my "Corp" Clan for my duty, in this game replacing the loses is so much harder for crafters while in Eve they could pump out 200-300 ships for massive battles only real value was losing important Moons for mats.

Economy in Eve works because of one simple thing, the way to produce stuff is cheap and easy, shipping and hauling while it has risks is easy, crafting small ships is super easy and requires minimal setup from crafters.

 

Yep - It honestly comes down to the economy and how quickly you can replace losses. losing always sucks, but in Naval Action Losing is a game "ender" for a lot of folks. There just isn't a reason for players to go out in a 5th rate, with repairs, with guns, and on top of the cost to make it and or possible the gold to buy everything --- need I say more? it gets ridiculous...not to mention if you want to add modules, heaven forbid.

I look at my frigate that a clanmate made for OW PvP, and I think of how it took 4 players to build it and after it was built we got another one. But the problem came where we had 2 frigates, but 4 players....so the 2 player who don't have the ship do what...sit and wait until the next day they can get one too? I know there are options like buying from others or buying NPC or making it yourself...but the point I'm trying to make is with labor hour limits and costs of building ships, someone is getting the short stick all the time....

So what have I done with this frigate? it's gone out to pvp once, with a large group of friends within the nation, we killed some folks and successfully ran away. Success right? yay! except now I look and see the next day the people we sank don't have ships....so they aren't on the open world....so we don't find players to sink anymore.

Bottom line is crafting/econ cost MUST go down or this game is "done" for a lot of people. They leave, less PvP, less PvP, more people leave.

 

20 minutes ago, Hodo said:

I have a 10+ year old account there... I may go back LOL.  At least I know when I go PVP I am not going to be jumped by gank fleets right outside of the battle... OR be moving so slow that my ship takes 1 hour to go 30nm in OW because I am so over loaded with stuff that will most likely sell for 1 each at port because the ports stocks are overloaded and have been that way for a frakking month!

Not to mention there is INSURANCE for your ship in EVE....

 

 

Yep.....

 

I don't give a flying hoot if people complain that things are too easy to make or PvE players get their way to get ships fast. If they get their ships faster and everyone gets richer, people stay and get more ships....so that PvP players can have more chances to take those ships or find players out there to fight. Making things hard for the sake of "making Loss feel devastating" sucks...a. lot.

Edited June 16, 2017 by Teutonic

[Slamz]

4 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

if they see that they can get the materials or gold to buy a new ship in...let's say 20-40 minutes, they will do it.

...can't they?

I put a player-made Surprise in the shop for 155,000 gold. I'm aiming for what I consider to be a fair-high markup so that's compensating me for labor, hauling and trying to make a decent raw profit on top of that. Click-cost is about a third of that.

I'm thinking 20-40 minutes is pretty reasonable to make 155,000 gold (and certainly the click cost if a guild is making it for the player at cost). Could be done with a lineship grind fleet, I bet (especially if they can find buyers for their PvE marks). Can certainly be done with a trading run.

I'm actually thinking NA is not that far off from what you're already saying. It's easy to get lost in the numbers, though. Like after that 3rd iron run it's easy to think "jesus this is too much money and hauling" but you've also probably hauled enough iron for literally like 50 Surprises.

I think that staying in 5th rates is way easier than a lot of us veterans have made it out to be. Especially for guilds working on lineships, it's easy to get lost in that work and forget that one lineship represents enough time and materials for a whole lot of 5th rates.

[King of Crowns]

17 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

I'd say the main difference of my eve online experience to Naval Action's experience is this. I will take an example of a Cruiser/BattleCruiser class in Eve being a 5th rate class in Naval Action. They are "similar" in the sense of their costs for what they do.

I search for PvP in Eve with a Cruiser/Battlecruiser --> can take me 5 minutes to 1 hour to find PvP
I die in Eve --> Takes me 10-20 minutes to get money or resources to buy/build a ship (30-40 minutes for a Battlecruiser).

I search for PvP in NA in a 5th rate --> usually takes 15minutes to 2 hours to find PvP
I die in naval action --> Takes me 2-5 hours to get money or resources to buy/build a ship

 

While Eve has it's gankers and it's own problems, I can replenish my losses A LOT faster. It's painful to lose ships in BOTH Eve Online and Naval action, but I can get a new ship in eve faster than I can get one in Naval Action. again, My problem with multiple durability was NOT that ships were inexpensive, but that when a player was sunk or captured they still "Owned" the ship.

From my point of view, you want to save this game? Makes ships cheaper, make lineships expensive, everything else should be super cheap. people will still complain about losing their ship, but if they see that they can get the materials or gold to buy a new ship in...let's say 20-40 minutes, they will do it. Currently they "see" that it takes 2+ hours or having to wait for labor hours for a day or so to get their ship back and they decide to stop playing.

 

1 indef with carros can make 80k gold in one 5th rate fleet mission in the hands of some one who knows what they are doing that mission will take about 20 mins. 3 of those missions will get you about 240k which is enough to buy your battle cruiser and put guns on it. so there ya go people just need to stop sucking and do some math and figure out what is profitable. there are people on the game with millions and millions of gold... ya know why. its because they don't suck and they have done the math to see what is the fastest ways to make money. so stop sucking and you wont have to worry about loosing a 5th rate. it should only take 1 hour of pve to pay for a store bought frigate with guns. that is not a grind. but ya know we can still go back to 10 dura ships and 280mil gold each so that everyone can have everything w/o working for it. #carebear mode.

[Lordicious]

36 minutes ago, admin said:

same in EVE, and you cant even capture player ships there. 

EvE got tons of cool loot to collect. So, you go out there spend time, but you can bring home awesome items while exploring. Here we get nothing for exploring, 1 stupid bottle and that is it. #makeNAinteresting

Edited June 16, 2017 by Lord Delicious

[Teutonic]

Just now, Slamz said:

...can't they?

I put a player-made Surprise in the shop for 155,000 gold. I'm aiming for what I consider to be a fair-high markup so that's compensating me for labor, hauling and trying to make a decent raw profit on top of that. Click-cost is about a third of that.

I'm thinking 20-40 minutes is pretty reasonable to make 155,000 gold (and certainly the click cost if a guild is making it for the player at cost). Could be done with a lineship grind fleet, I bet (especially if they can find buyers for their PvE marks). Can certainly be done with a trading run.

I'm actually thinking NA is not that far off from what you're already saying. It's easy to get lost in the numbers, though. Like after that 3rd iron run it's easy to think "jesus this is too much money and hauling" but you've also probably hauled enough iron for literally like 50 Surprises.

I think that staying in 5th rates is way easier than a lot of us veterans have made it out to be. Especially for guilds working on lineships, it's easy to get lost in that work and forget that one lineship represents enough time and materials for a whole lot of 5th rates.

I think what I'm most frustrated about it the scenario where you lost "everything." or you have a basic cutter and you don't have a lot of gold. No I know we both keep our rainy day funds safe and we don't lose our ships often without backups.

I guess Eve and Naval Action are different

in Eve - 20 minutes of ratting (missions) gives me 30 mill isk
1. 30 mill isk buys all the guns, modules, and rigs for a Cruiser class ship.

in NA - 20-30 minutes of 1 4th rate combat order gives me 30-40k gold
1. that gives me anywhere from 40-60% of the cost to buy a 6th rate ship, not including guns or repairs.

In eve my ship is ready to rumble, in NA, I haven't made enough cash to buy a ship nor fit it to be able to fight. I guess I'm partially sick of wasting time that could alternatively be used on other games? maybe I'm just bitter.
 

[King of Crowns]

25 minutes ago, Justme said:

Because your such a hardcore gamer right?

 

 

nah... I just don't suck...

[ironhammer500]

1 minute ago, King of Crowns said:

1 indef with carros can make 80k gold in one 5th rate fleet mission in the hands of some one who knows what they are doing that mission will take about 20 mins. 3 of those missions will get you about 240k which is enough to buy your battle cruiser and put guns on it. so there ya go people just need to stop sucking and do some math and figure out what is profitable. there are people on the game with millions and millions of gold... ya know why. its because they don't suck and they have done the math to see what is the fastest ways to make money. so stop sucking and you wont have to worry about loosing a 5th rate. it should only take 1 hour of pve to pay for a store bought frigate with guns. that is not a grind. but ya know we can still go back to 10 dura ships and 280mil gold each so that everyone can have everything w/o working for it. #carebear mode.

Still doesnt solve the issue of i need to grind 1 hour for every time i lose a ship in pvp.

[Teutonic]

1 minute ago, King of Crowns said:

1 indef with carros can make 80k gold in one 5th rate fleet mission in the hands of some one who knows what they are doing that mission will take about 20 mins. 3 of those missions will get you about 240k which is enough to buy your battle cruiser and put guns on it. so there ya go people just need to stop sucking and do some math and figure out what is profitable. there are people on the game with millions and millions of gold... ya know why. its because they don't suck and they have done the math to see what is the fastest ways to make money. so stop sucking and you wont have to worry about loosing a 5th rate. it should only take 1 hour of pve to pay for a store bought frigate with guns. that is not a grind. but ya know we can still go back to 10 dura ships and 280mil gold each so that everyone can have everything w/o working for it. #carebear mode.

I've done that often.

but to those players that don't have an indefat or lost it. I suppose on one hand I say "welp, better luck next time." On the other hand, I see they don't play anymore and that's one less player that I will see and possible fight again.

[JeanJacques de Montpellier]

On website of Naval Action is written:

"NAVAL ACTION IS AN EXCITING, REALISTIC, AND BEAUTIFULLY DETAILED NAVAL COMBAT GAME IMMERSING PLAYERS INTO THE EXPERIENCE OF THE MOST BEAUTIFUL PERIOD OF NAVAL HISTORY - WHEN SAILING SHIPS RULED THE SEAS."

if you do a  game with full nonsense bonus and various crap
If you do a game that in combat turns into ganking, revenge fleet, baits, exploits, etc ... shit varies
If you create a mark system to do everything
If you need to be in great clan to play
If for you this is realistic

It means that we have different conceptions of realistic

Edited June 16, 2017 by JeanJacques de Montpellier

[King of Crowns]

2 minutes ago, ironhammer500 said:

Still doesnt solve the issue of i need to grind 1 hour for every time i lose a ship in pvp.

well........ don't sink........ I think that may be one of the points of this game............ is to sink others without sinking...

[King of Crowns]

1 minute ago, Teutonic said:

I've done that often.

but to those players that don't have an indefat or lost it. I suppose on one hand I say "welp, better luck next time." On the other hand, I see they don't play anymore and that's one less player that I will see and possible fight again.

then go do trading until you can buy an indef from some one. there is 100 ways to make money in the game.

[Prater]

5 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

in Eve - 20 minutes of ratting (missions) gives me 30 mill isk

1. 30 mill isk buys all the guns, modules, and rigs for a Cruiser class ship.

Um, can a player 1 month in make 30 mil isk in 20 minutes?  Also, we don't have ships that cost 30 mil.

Edited June 16, 2017 by Prater

[Teutonic]

I'd rather be ganked by 25 players everyday, then to never see players in the OW to attack.

@King of Crowns maybe my bitterness is the time sink it takes to get do that. maybe it's just me not willing to spend the time anymore. I don't know, but whatever it is there are less people playing overall again :(.

[King of Crowns]

2 minutes ago, JeanJacques de Montpellier said:

On website of Naval Action is written:

"NAVAL ACTION IS AN EXCITING, REALISTIC, AND BEAUTIFULLY DETAILED NAVAL COMBAT GAME IMMERSING PLAYERS INTO THE EXPERIENCE OF THE MOST BEAUTIFUL PERIOD OF NAVAL HISTORY - WHEN SAILING SHIPS RULED THE SEAS."

if you do a  game with full nonsense bonus and various crap
If you do a game that in combat turns into ganking, revenge fleet, baits, exploits, etc ... shit varies
If you create a mark system to do everything
If you need to be in great clan to play
If for you this is realism

It means that we have different conceptions of realism

so there is this game called world of warships...... ur guaranteed a balanced fight with no ganking no revenge no bait. and limited exploits.... you should go check it out. as long as there is open world there will be no balance. nor should there be. perhaps the arena game devs are working on over the summer is for you.

[Teutonic]

Just now, Prater said:

Um, can a player 1 month in make 30 mil isk in 20 minutes?

I've seen it done.

a 1 month old player was salvaging wrecks left by myself and made 60 mill in an hour just salvaging what i left behind. He made less money than I did. but the concept is still there. he was able to afford a cruiser (not as powerful as mine) and PvP right after.

[Fritz Hermann]

3 minutes ago, King of Crowns said:

well........ don't sink........ I think that may be one of the points of this game............ is to sink others without sinking...

 

2 minutes ago, King of Crowns said:

then go do trading until you can buy an indef from some one. there is 100 ways to make money in the game.

Ok. I think we got it. You are good, and we suck. New players suck too. But, if we suck and it takes us many hours to even get another ship after sinking, we will never have the patience to practice our skills in battle. We'll just give up and go play another game, like EVE (even though I don't know what is that game...). We will also tell our friends not to buy that game. They might tell that to other friends, and so on...

The point is : Yeah, there's multiple ways to make money and all, we know that. But the way the game is going makes new players and casual players leave. With less people on board, PVP can only go lower...

[admin]

41 minutes ago, ironhammer500 said:

But in Eve Pvp is fun, why? Because i know it wont matter if i lost my ships because if i turned up for a battle did my part and died in combat i would be compensated by my "Corp" Clan for my duty, in this game replacing the loses is so much harder for crafters while in Eve they could pump out 200-300 ships for massive battles only real value was losing important Moons for mats.

Economy in Eve works because of one simple thing, the way to produce stuff is cheap and easy, shipping and hauling while it has risks is easy, crafting small ships is super easy and requires minimal setup from crafters.

Same as here. I can guarantee you that if you are in a good clan your losses will be covered. And look at Sorry brag thread. I count how many ships of the line there? They all required real time hauling and crafting and money - as permits are 1 peso a dozen now. Why no-one sank them while they were hauling. Why it was not a grind for them @Bountyhunter @Otto Kohl can you enlighten people here? Maybe give them some tips.

The only problem I see now that players treated santisimas as eve's frigates. It still takes 50-60 times faster to build a first rate compared to titan and we are going to address it. We are going to play ironman challenge and will survive this drama about the grind. Lineships are not frigates. They will be expensive to build and expensive to lose. We want everyone to sail frigates or below. 

btw

Eve Frigate is a pickle. Pickle is cheap and takes like 1 robbed trader to recover and fit. PVP in frigates in cheap and fun.