naval no action

[elite92]

1 minute ago, The Red Duke said:

let me think....

... *smoke*

ok... here goes nothing

Pensions should not exist.

PvP marks should not be tradeable.

PB Kills should emulate OW PvP kills.

Conquest Marks should be awarded by PB kills.

CMs should not be tradeable.

SOLs crafting should work as now but half price in CMs.

Captains need to spend PvP/PvE marks ( corresponding scales ) to be elligigle to even use a SOL model. Pay once forever for that model. ( you know collingwood wasn't given the command of one for being a fluffy kitten ). It becomes usable for OW duty.

on the RvR

no hostility points or pvp marks ? no pb. Sorry.
no pvp marks / CM to buy defense pb slot ? no pb. Sorry.

 

 

hard but good imho, admin check pls

[MassimoSud]

Why do we need marks?
Make everything via the money!
So even traders will have the chance to be decisive in the game.

[Fritz Hermann]

11 minutes ago, admin said:

That is unsolvable. But there is more pvp now compared to what it was before the wipe (lets say november/december). 

 

In my opinion, PVP means a fair fight between players, not a 6 surprises ganking 1 trinco. Sure, if the sole criteria for having a "PVP" battle is to have players on each sides, it can be considered as PVP. But let's face it : We don't see "real PVP" fights anymore... 

[Lordicious]

1 hour ago, admin said:

what is your player nation and server? If you play on EU - attack Road town with the intent to capture - you will get your full pb in no time (and a lot of pvp when setting it up). 
Same will happen probably for sant iago and cartagena

What about US server? any suggestions there?

[elite92]

3 minutes ago, Fritz Hermann said:

In my opinion, PVP means a fair fight between players, not a 6 surprises ganking 1 trinco. Sure, if the sole criteria for having a "PVP" battle is to have players on each sides, it can be considered as PVP. But let's face it : We don't see "real PVP" fights anymore... 

image a game without free surprise to everyone? imagine if we have a belle poule instead as redimablee and not made of bermuda.

i think there is also an error in free-ship-afterwipe decision that make this ganks possible

[admin]

Just now, Intrepido said:

That would hurt even more. What Im talking here is that the defeated nation should have an easier way to recover, then the war (against the same nation or others) could continue after some reasonable time of peace.

Make all ships cost 1 peso? Then everyone will sail a santisima. Anywhere in between someone will be unhappy. 

You have to understand this about RVR.

Everything is out there to kill you. You can lose most of the land.  You will have trouble progressing sometimes
A world where sinking is a traumatizing experience, but you have to try and push through
The difficulty comes not from the difficulty for the sake of difficulty - but from the design philosophy 
Loss in video games we take for granted for many years now , but Naval Action is unique in this regard
Loss and failure are designed to give you that feeling of struggle and triumph 
Loss does not kill you - but brings you closer and closer to giving up, to purify your character
Some players would say - wow its too difficult - and they are right! It is too difficult for some people. 

One day you struggle for so long that you give up completely, but because you don't lose your player and skill, some players don't lose hope, gather players around you, you build a fleet, you practice, you learn to fight better, you overcome and start succeeding.
You triumph by destroying the enemy that was terrorizing your nation for so long and you win the game and retire. And then new leaders come and take your place.

The game does not dumb down the conquest for the sake of so called mass market (brigs with rams)
It does its own thing regardless of whether some people will be turned off and in doing so it becomes something unique and valuable and pure.

There are just some tweaks needed to reduce the time required to rebuild 

2 minutes ago, Hodo said:

 Any player that starts and chooses to start as Spain, they will find they have no regions, and no chance at gaining any.  

Yes. The leader has not been born yet - the leader who can gather 30-50 people around him and turn 1 region into the empire.

[Nelsons Barrel]

1 minute ago, Intrepido said:

If the economy and overall crafting requirements are slightly relaxed, PVP and RVR will wake up again.

But meanwhile you need so much gold, many PVP marks for everything and 5 conquests marks for crafting one agamenon people would not risk their lineship fleet attacking others.

If you think that, game will be dead till then. The biggest problem will be the use of the in real life called gunship-diplomacy. The Nation that will put out the first complete firstrate fleet will win if it rushes fast enough, maybe needs to fight once or twice, but then the enemy is incabable of fighting them and looses without the need to take part in PB anymore as long there is no competitive second first rate fleet. While with every won PB the winner gets more CQM and the looser less.

[SirValer]

14 minutes ago, Fritz Hermann said:

In my opinion, PVP means a fair fight between players, not a 6 surprises ganking 1 trinco. Sure, if the sole criteria for having a "PVP" battle is to have players on each sides, it can be considered as PVP. But let's face it : We don't see "real PVP" fights anymore... 

Another problem is the big cost of "real PVP" (with some ships in both sides not 5v1 noob in mission). For example  6v6 5th rate cost in terms of repair kit more than money reward for battle.

[surfimp]

13 minutes ago, Fritz Hermann said:

But let's face it : We don't see "real PVP" fights anymore... 

I think this really depends on what you spend your time doing in Naval Action. On Global there are PVP fights going on all the time and they are not all ganks by any means. I had a nice PVP fight last night, where I attacked a Lynx / Traders Lynx fleet with my Privateer. The fights are out there if you go looking for them, but so are the gankers and everything else. There is real risk for anyone and everyone, as it should be.

[Vllad]

13 minutes ago, The Red Duke said:

let me think....

... *smoke*

ok... here goes nothing

Pensions should not exist.

PvP marks should not be tradeable.

PB Kills should emulate OW PvP kills.

Conquest Marks should be awarded by PB kills.

CMs should not be tradeable.

SOLs crafting should work as now but half price in CMs.

Captains need to spend PvP/PvE marks ( corresponding scales ) to be elligigle to even use a SOL model. Pay once forever for that model. ( you know collingwood wasn't given the command of one for being a fluffy kitten ). It becomes usable for OW duty.

on the RvR

no hostility points or pvp marks ? no pb. Sorry.
no pvp marks / CM to buy defense pb slot ? no pb. Sorry.

 

 

I like your suggestions, especially that CM's should be based on PB kills. However in general wouldn't it just be easier to reduce the amount of Line Ship PB's? I would add more 6th and 5th rate Ports, reduce slightly the amount of 4th rate ports and significantly reduce the Line ship ports.  

Reduce the need for SoL's except for only about 6 ports on the entire map and the whole issue about small nations, poorly populated nations, catch up properties and poor CM mechanics become far less critical.

Making SoL's rare by making them difficult to craft is completely silly. If you want them to be rare then make the need for them rare. The game should revolve around 5th rates anyway.  

[admin]

3 minutes ago, Hodo said:

Ok I want to see you fight that Port Battle....

Trincs and Essex vs L'Oceans and Santisimas.  

 

trincs and essex can fight in their own 4th rate battle which Santis cannot enter
and even more
navy brigs and snows can fight in shallow water battles without seeing any santisimas. 

 

[Snoopy]

2 minutes ago, admin said:

[..]Loss in video games we take for granted for many years now , but Naval Action is unique in this regard

Loss and failure are designed to give you that feeling of struggle and triumph 
Loss does not kill you - but brings you closer and closer to giving up, to purify your character
Some players would say - wow its too difficult - and they are right! It is too difficult for some people. 

One day you struggle for so long that you give up completely, but because you don't lose your player and skill, some players don't lose hope, gather players around you, you build a fleet, you practice, you learn to fight better, you overcome and start succeeding.
You triumph by destroying the enemy that was terrorizing your nation for so long and you win the game and retire. And then new leaders come and take your place.

The game does not dumb down the conquest for the sake of so called mass market (brigs with rams)
It does its own thing regardless of whether some people will be turned off and in doing so it becomes something unique and valuable and pure.

There are just some tweaks needed to reduce the time required to rebuild 

Yes. The leader has not been born yet - the leader who can gather 30-50 people around him and turn 1 region into the empire.

Sorry, but this is lunacy.

You are staking your game's population (and in turn success) on the hope that players will endure the hardships you introduce?
Despite every single time a nation has been in difficulties during testing it took ages to rebuild and most players never came back?

What if that charismatic leader never emerges?

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

11 minutes ago, Vllad said:

I like your suggestions, especially that CM's should be based on PB kills. However in general wouldn't it just be easier to reduce the amount of Line Ship PB's? I would add more 6th and 5th rate Ports, reduce slightly the amount of 4th rate ports and significantly reduce the Line ship ports.  

Reduce the need for SoL's except for only about 6 ports on the entire map and the whole issue about small nations, poorly populated nations, catch up properties and poor CM mechanics become far less critical.

Making SoL's rare by making them difficult to craft is completely silly. If you want them to be rare then make the need for them rare. The game should revolve around 5th rates anyway.  

You are correct in the sense they are difficult to craft. Reducing their Marks requisites ( even non tradeable as I suggested ) would make sure that someone will get the BP Permits and then give the BP and Permit to the Shipyard player account.

As suggested also in the suggestions board, the breakdown of captured ships ( we may only capture player ships and everything is 1 dura ) should yield way more usable parts, carriages and rigging cables for sure, some planks certainly, etc.

Would also help.

Sometimes a touch here and there helps the whole, instead of having to tweak one single thing.

[Justme]

54 minutes ago, admin said:

Merge all servers into pve and declare world peace?

Might as well do it now and get it over with. Seems to be the games direction at this point, make PVP to punishing to play except for those who have unlimited playtime.

[shaeberle84]

59 minutes ago, rediii said:

Not if you work with the market.

Ofcourse it takes longer if you do something all by yourself.

What do you mean by "the market"? Of course you can buy some of the materials (at very high prices), but where does this money come from? Yes: grinding or trading, and both takes a lot of time, and is risky. So causual players will be stuck in 6th rates or their redemeebles (until they lose them in a ganking action).

[shaeberle84]

57 minutes ago, admin said:

That is unsolvable. But there is more pvp now compared to what it was before the wipe (lets say november/december). 

 

But how does it compare to player numbers? A lot more people are playing now, so more pvp should not be surprising. What is the average pvp fights per player (or even per account) per day or week???

Edited June 16, 2017 by shaeberle84

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

1 minute ago, shaeberle84 said:

But how does it compare to player numbers? A lot more people are playing now, so more pvp should not be surprising. What is the average pvp fights per player (or even per account) per day or week???

Willingly or unwillingly ?

Would be a interesting statistic to know, but to what end would that information be useful ?! To prove a point ? 

Devs have it. Do we need it ?

[Iroquois Confederacy]

I average about one an hour, I think.

[Snoopy]

And just before I get accused of shitposting, again

I like the patch 10 features of the game, it's just that the numbers are off and grind requirements are too high (the everyday chores) and creature comforts that we had were taken away. Ratio of PvP/grind is worse now. This wouldn't be a big deal because the game is still in development and it can be fixed by tweaking numbers but the expressed intent ("hardcore" whatever that means) seems to indicate this is intentional.

To illustrate this here is how my Steam review (I'm not actually going to do one because I think it's messed up to hold the developers hostage with them before the game is released) would be now:

"Should I play Naval Action?"
"Do you have Netflix?"

[Sureshot]

Well after every battle is a revenge fleet, as opposed to pre patch when there wasn't. 1 PvP fight can now lead to 1-10 PvP tags afterwards. Also player numbers are much higher atm. 

[Iroquois Confederacy]

1 minute ago, Snoopy said:

And just before I get accused of shitposting, again

I like the patch 10 features of the game, it's just that the numbers are off and grind requirements are too high (the everyday chores) and creature comforts that we had were taken away. Ratio of PvP/grind is worse now. This wouldn't be a big deal because the game is still in development and it can be fixed by tweaking numbers but the expressed intent ("hardcore" whatever that means) seems to indicate this is intentional.

To illustrate this here is how my Steam review (I'm not actually going to do one because I think it's messed up to hold the developers hostage with them before the game is released) would be now:

"Should I play Naval Action?"
"Do you have Netflix?"

What grind are you referring to?  I'm a quite successful privateer running two slots on my Surprise.  One of those was made on the hulls of other players.

[admin]

31 minutes ago, Snoopy said:

Sorry, but this is lunacy.

You are staking your game's population (and in turn success) on the hope that players will endure the hardships you introduce?
Despite every single time a nation has been in difficulties during testing it took ages to rebuild and most players never came back?

What if that charismatic leader never emerges?

We don't introduce the hardships - enemy nations do.
There is also a peaceful server (with free ships from NPCs) which does not have ANY hardships whatsoever.. 

[Iroquois Confederacy]

There is this mode of thinking left over from pre-wipe:  Everything has to be golden, everything has to be the best, before you can even dream of going out to fight.

That thinking is wrong now.  Most people don't have the best of anything, and there are plenty out fighting.  If you think you need to have the best of everything to go and fight, please, change your thinking.  Or, maybe you really do need the best of everything for you to stand a chance.  In which case, I think you should go out and fight more anyway to improve your own abilities.

[Snoopy]

8 minutes ago, Iroquois Confederacy said:

What grind are you referring to?  I'm a quite successful privateer running two slots on my Surprise.  One of those was made on the hulls of other players.

How would your privateering go if there were no other players to steal from?
Mind you "stealing" is meant positively here as it is historically accurate and should be a thing, but clearly it only works with others hauling stuff and doing the grind.

Edited June 16, 2017 by Snoopy

[Cabral]

1 hour ago, Hodo said:

The other issues brought up last night by a couple of players is this.

ANY nation that doesnt win a Port Battle in the first few days of the game, is already lost, they wont have the conquest marks to build anything larger than a 4th rate.   

Look at Spain on PVPGlobal, the few players that started as Spain have quit, no one there, it is a ghost town.  Any player that starts and chooses to start as Spain, they will find they have no regions, and no chance at gaining any.  

Any nation dropped to less than 2 regions will be lost, any players in that nation will most likely quit.  Meaning LESS people in the game and more negative reviews. 

If we had the pre-wipe hostility system and the current ship durability system, and quite frankly either COMPLETELY revamp the Conquest Marks crap or just drop it in favor of PVP marks then it maybe saved.  

 

 Happened the same on EU server, the first PB of the server was between Britain and Spain (Sant Iago pb), brits lost. Now spanish have one of the biggest fleets on the server (some ports switched with pirates helped also) and brits are fighting hard with economy and few blueprints to atleast no end like the french.