The new patch 12317.clean.prod

[Gunnyhighway]

I am surprised by some of the modifications.

 

In PVP, the players are divided arbitrarily by the game.

 

I played confrontations  where  3 players were pitted  against one (1 cutter vs 2 cutters and 1 lynx), then another game where  1 surprise, 1 cutter  were pitted against 3 brigs, 1 cutter and  2 lynxs, and finally  1 Lynx, 1 yatch, 1 cutter, 1 tricon and 1 surprise were pitted against 4 lynx, 1 Cutter, 2 Surprises, 1 Cons and 1 tricon.

 

I find that division unfair since it is decided by a program. There is not difference with the way it was before, as cliques of players could design that kind of  confrontation.

 

Then, there is now a limited zone of engagement, which contradict the idea of open seas. Before small ships could evade destruction, and revive the concept of speed, maneuverability against brute force. 

 

Now ships are arbitrarily pitted against each others.

 

I am certainly surprised and somehow disappointed. I don't understand the reasoning behind that change of mechanic.

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

I am surprised by some of the modifications.

 

In PVP, the players are divided arbitrarily by the game.

 

I played confrontations  where  3 players were pitted  against one (1 cutter vs 2 cutters and 1 lynx), then another game where  1 surprise, 1 cutter  were pitted against 3 brigs, 1 cutter and  2 lynxs, and finally  1 Lynx, 1 yatch, 1 cutter, 1 tricon and 1 surprise were pitted against 4 lynx, 1 Cutter, 2 Surprises, 1 Cons and 1 tricon.

 

I find that division unfair since it is decided by a program. There is not difference with the way it was before, as cliques of players could design that kind of  confrontation.

 

Then, there is now a limited zone of engagement, which contradict the idea of open seas. Before small ships could evade destruction, and revive the concept of speed, maneuverability against brute force. 

 

Now ships are arbitrarily pitted against each others.

 

I am certainly surprised and somehow disappointed. I don't understand the reasoning behind that change of mechanic.

 

In the first place - the matchmaker is either:

a. Still under construction and will make mistakes - they did, after all, slam it together in a matter of a few days, which is a pretty good feat! OR

b. Working under the same assumptions as the PvE creator, which seems to make easy, similarly matched, or hard/impossible to win battles.  This may be due to the idea that sometimes you came up against a superior force, and sometimes you didn't.

 

As to the limited area - it was no fun for someone to run away the entire match, forcing everyone else to try fruitlessly to catch them for a full hour.  We know you can successfully run away, it's tested and it works great.  We are currently testing the ships against each other in a fight, not how fast they can run away to grief everyone else.  That's why that mechanic was put into place.  If you want to run away when losing costs you absolutely nothing, you're in the wrong game at the moment.  

[Edward Vernon]

I am surprised by some of the modifications.

 

In PVP, the players are divided arbitrarily by the game.

 

I played confrontations  where  3 players were pitted  against one (1 cutter vs 2 cutters and 1 lynx), then another game where  1 surprise, 1 cutter  were pitted against 3 brigs, 1 cutter and  2 lynxs, and finally  1 Lynx, 1 yatch, 1 cutter, 1 tricon and 1 surprise were pitted against 4 lynx, 1 Cutter, 2 Surprises, 1 Cons and 1 tricon.

 

I find that division unfair since it is decided by a program. There is not difference with the way it was before, as cliques of players could design that kind of  confrontation.

 

Then, there is now a limited zone of engagement, which contradict the idea of open seas. Before small ships could evade destruction, and revive the concept of speed, maneuverability against brute force. 

 

Now ships are arbitrarily pitted against each others.

 

I am certainly surprised and somehow disappointed. I don't understand the reasoning behind that change of mechanic.

The MM for PvP seems pretty balanced for me. In three battles tonight, being in a Brig I have been on the larger numbers side against bigger ships...lost them all. Up to that point in PVE in the Brig I had a 100% win rate. The devs stated the balance would be done on the basis of a weighting system taking into account ship type, battles won, damage dealt and kills. There maybe some tweaking to do but it is still far superior to the previous system.  As for the constraint, it serves a purpose, although it is undeniably unrealistic it is there as triptyx says to force the less bold into battle, lets face it you now NEED to be in battle to deal damage and progress. I think overall it is a HUGE improvement.

[RAMJB]

All the games I've played when the matchmaker could deliver a well balanced game, it did so.

 

Of course that's my own experience, I'm sure in some cases it'll randomly throw something unbalanced but as a whole, in my case, I'm very happy with how it works.

[akd]

wrong forum, I think

[Harry White]

One point is that this is not the open world, this is alpha, there for you are here to test, not play the open world, but follow the instructions of the Devs, which is to test combat, sailing, shooting etc. etc. which will not get tested appropriately if as you said, people in small ships like to run away (which may I add is a void point, the Surprise, Trincomalee and Constitution can all go 15kn's or above, and can sail closer to the wind than smaller ships, making running a bad tactic) 

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

One point is that this is not the open world, this is alpha, there for you are here to test, not play the open world, but follow the instructions of the Devs, which is to test combat, sailing, shooting etc. etc. which will not get tested appropriately if as you said, people in small ships like to run away (which may I add is a void point, the Surprise, Trincomalee and Constitution can all go 15kn's or above, and can sail closer to the wind than smaller ships, making running a bad tactic) 

 

None of those three should outsail a fore/aft rigged vessel close to the wind though.

[RAMJB]

None of those three should outsail a fore/aft rigged vessel close to the wind though.

 

All of them can effortlessy tack against the wind in no time while any square rigger will be stuck on irons easily. Any square rigger can (and will) be left behind by the 2nd tack in a row. And I have some serious doubts that with the update to fore-and-aft ships of this update the big ships are faster close hauled. Personally the surprise loses a lot of speed once your sail angle goes beyond 70º off the wind. Meanwhile I've happily kited a brig in an one on one with a yatch just by keeping my bows in a much tighter angle (maybe 45 degrees off the wind) and keeping my speed up.

[Harry White]

Perhaps they shouldn't, but I have seen many smaller ships being outrun in that tight angle to the wind, well when I say outrun I mean chased down. 

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

All of them can effortlessy tack against the wind in no time while any square rigger will be stuck on irons easily. Any square rigger can (and will) be left behind by the 2nd tack in a row. And I have some serious doubts that with the update to fore-and-aft ships of this update the big ships are faster close hauled. Personally the surprise loses a lot of speed once your sail angle goes beyond 70º off the wind. Meanwhile I've happily kited a brig in an one on one with a yatch just by keeping my bows in a much tighter angle (maybe 45 degrees off the wind) and keeping my speed up.

 

Agreed - I'd like to see how the new changes look for fore/aft vessels on this patch.

[Gunnyhighway]

This is what I got from the Admiralty regarding the Alpha Sea trials:

 

"-Test performance of servers and infrastructure

-Test performance of ships: speeds, turning, wind curves

-Test performance of cannons, carronades and mortars.

There is no other content in the limited sea trials. This is an Alpha."

 

So, evading or sailing away while testing speeds and turning is part of the Alpha, unlike running away which would translate into disconnecting from the battle. I have read posts complaining about opponents disconnecting during engagement they felt they were losing, because the disconnection of an opponent was then, causing grief.

 

Besides, I don't think losing does not cost anything, because if it was the case, winning would not gain anything. The light and shadow concept, it is a balance. Winning as loosing have a direct impact on the statistics board, and not catching an opponent could end the confrontation in a draw instead of a victory. Moreover, some players would rather have a victory than a draw. I am certain some players complained largely about that distinction to the developers.

 

So, that "limited area", could also have been put in place (not to stop, the "disconnectors"), not to stop the few ones sailing away, but to stop the stats-padders, who have not yet mastered the full speed potential of their bigger rigs, from complaining to the developers.

 

@Edward Vernon:

 

And I quote "To force the less bold into battle"

The less bold are the one that disconnect and don't reconnect back right away, not the ones that help you point out that despite the speed performance of your ship, you can't use it to its full potential.

 

@ Darby and Vernon:

 

I am certainly happy to know that when a novice expresses concern and asks questions about changes, one can receive answers powdered with contempt and misconstrued behavioral analysis from Junior Lieutenants.

[RAMJB]

Quite honestly, after the victory requirements were swapped for damage I see no point in winning/losing. What matters is how well you do. And I've managed to rack 3500 damages vs a trincomalee...in a yatch. A VERY WELL sailed trincomalee if I might add. I lost in the end but I didn't give a damn. It was fun as hell.

 

People who quit because they're losing should see their testing keys removed on spot. Or anyone who acts alongside those lines. If they don't want to be useful for the testing of the game, their presence in the sea trials should be denied.

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

This is what I got from the Admiralty regarding the Alpha Sea trials:

 

"-Test performance of servers and infrastructure

-Test performance of ships: speeds, turning, wind curves

-Test performance of cannons, carronades and mortars.

There is no other content in the limited sea trials. This is an Alpha."

 

So, evading or sailing away while testing speeds and turning is part of the Alpha, unlike running away which would translate into disconnecting from the battle. I have read posts complaining about opponents disconnecting during engagement they felt they were losing, because the disconnection of an opponent was then, causing grief.

 

Since those orders were issued, the Admiralty has become alarmed at the rate at which Captains were simply setting their sails and then retiring to their sleeping cabin, resulting in the rest of the fleet having to undertake the destruction of nearby enemies and then spend the rest of an hour long match chasing so as not to end up with a draw. That's darned poor manners, and the imposition of the sailing area is the Admiralty's response to prevent such behavior. Once the open world is released, naturally, withdrawing from a losing battle will become an option, though you should fervently pray that your orders allow such behavior to avoid imperiling your command through such a display of cowardice.

 

Besides, I don't think losing does not cost anything, because if it was the case, winning would not gain anything. The light and shadow concept, it is a balance. Winning as loosing have a direct impact on the statistics board, and not catching an opponent could end the confrontation in a draw instead of a victory. Moreover, some players would rather have a victory than a draw. I am certain some players complained largely about that distinction to the developers.

 

So, that "limited area", could also have been put in place (not to stop, the "disconnectors"), not to stop the few ones sailing away, but to stop the stats-padders, who have not yet mastered the full speed potential of their bigger rigs, from complaining to the developers.

 

Hah! You may wax philosphical with me, Sir, but other than not having another victory notch in your log, a loss at sea causes you no monetary losses, no lost time in reprovisioning, no need to harry the Naval Yard for new supplies with which to repair your vessel, no loss in rank or ship, really no loss at all. Running away from a fight over great distances when there is nothing to lose is not in the Naval Action spirit!

 

@Edward Vernon:

 

And I quote "To force the less bold into battle"

The less bold are the one that disconnect and don't reconnect back right away, not the ones that help you point out that despite the speed performance of your ship, you can't use it to its full potential.

 

I believe Lord Nelson spoke it best, "Damn the tactics, go straight at 'em!" Aye, pointing out that another Captain is handling his ship in a lubberly manner by forcing him into an hour long losing chase may seem like sport to you, however, it is darned impertinent and makes you look very much a scrub.

 

@ Darby and Vernon:

 

I am certainly happy to know that when a novice expresses concern and asks questions about changes, one can receive answers powdered with contempt and misconstrued behavioral analysis from Junior Lieutenants.

 

My rank has nothing to do with this Sir, nor is my prowess, or lack thereof, at shrinking your head. Your insistence on running away from battle is the true crux of the matter.

[Flip]

 

@ Darby and Vernon:

 

I am certainly happy to know that when a novice expresses concern and asks questions about changes, one can receive answers powdered with contempt and misconstrued behavioral analysis from Junior Lieutenants.

 

Don't ever read into forum ranks as a thing, its just based off post numbers. Look at when people join if you want to see experience with the game.

 

For example many battles have been won by outsailing someone upwind and kiting them if you can handle your ship better than he can handle his, the critics of kiting and always the worst sailors.. just an example of forum culture where people want to preserve a linefight because that is the RP Historical thing to do.

 

Anyways, I would say do what you want, its Alpha, you are not forced to fight and no one should expect you to fight. For example. sometimes I just ram people, would I do it in the full game? No. But there is a bug that occurs on some rams where both players sink instantly and someone has to test it

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

Don't ever read into forum ranks as a thing, its just based off post numbers. Look at when people join if you want to see experience with the game. 

 

Anyways, I would say do what you want, its Alpha, you are not forced to fight and no one should expect you to fight. For example. sometimes I just ram people, would I do it in the full game? No. But there is a bug that occurs on some rams where both players sink instantly and someone has to test it

 

You do understand that repeatedly "testing" something you have already identified as a bug is actually called "abusing an exploit", which can cause the Admiralty to remove you from Command aye?

[Flip]

You do understand that repeatedly "testing" something you have already identified as a bug is actually called "abusing an exploit", which can cause the Admiralty to remove you from Command aye?

 

You do understand that the bug only happens under certain circumstances that are yet to be identified yes?

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

In that case, test away!   I do hope you're approaching it scientifically no?

[thomas aagaard]

If you want to test a specific element, at least inform the rest of the players. Then they know and can help you do it.

[Flip]

If you want to test a specific element, at least inform the rest of the players. Then they know and can help you do it.

 

The aforementioned example was mostly during closed testing.

[Edward Vernon]

 

@ Darby and Vernon:

 

I am certainly happy to know that when a novice expresses concern and asks questions about changes, one can receive answers powdered with contempt and misconstrued behavioral analysis from Junior Lieutenants.

Where in my response did I answer with either contempt or misconstrued behavioural analysis? I made, as far as I can see, no behavioural analysis nor make any contemptuous remarks...

[Edward Vernon]

Don't ever read into forum ranks as a thing, its just based off post numbers. Look at when people join if you want to see experience with the game.

 

 

 

Anyways, I would say do what you want, its Alpha, you are not forced to fight and no one should expect you to fight.

 So says the man who joined the forum in April 2013 and has been a long term tester yet has only reached 100 posts...way to go with your rigorous testing, bug finding and the reporting thereof. Most of your similarly long time compatriot testers are up in the 500, 600 and up post count. Great contributiion, I salute you!

 

Also isn't the whole point of this bit of alpha testing combat...so fighting is exactly what we are here to do, thus you ARE expected to fight. Once again a fine example being set by a long term tester who with every word continues to prove himself almost totally at odds with the ethos of most of the others in the game.

[Flip]

 So says the man who joined the forum in April 2013 and has been a long term tester yet has only reached 100 posts...way to go with your rigorous testing, bug finding and the reporting thereof. Most of your similarly long time compatriot testers are up in the 500, 600 and up post count. Great contributiion, I salute you!

 

Also isn't the whole point of this bit of alpha testing combat...so fighting is exactly what we are here to do, thus you ARE expected to fight. Once again a fine example being set by a long term tester who with every word continues to prove himself almost totally at odds with the ethos of most of the others in the game.

 

Do you even look at the forums? Note the threads on sailing feedback? It's not all about combat. Its about combat, sailing, bugs, graphical bugs, water bugs, heel bugs bugs bugs bugs.

 

Again friend, when does post count ever mean anything? Some people post in historical 100x a day, other people don't, some people post hundreds of screenshots, others don't.

 

I'm starting to think you just assume everything about everyone. But you're wrong 99% of the time.

[admin]

Please refrain from personal attacks.

Topic moved from patch discussions to post count discussions, probably meaning that everything else about the patch was properly discussed

Time to close then

Ps. Kiting will be harder some day in the future. Speed loss in sustained turns will be improved