7 full days as a play after work casual

[Mrdoomed]

Well as someone who pre wipe had over 10 million gold, max outpost all full of ships and more resorces then i could ever use i decided to try the new patch.

Well 7 days in playing about as much as I did before ( just a hour or so after work) i can honestly say i dont see any way this game can thrive or even keep new players.  

I dont play in a big clan or spend my time doing fleet battles or roaming in gank squads and i dont camp enemy capitals so in a week I have managed to get 3 outposts and i have equipped my redeemed Suprise and bought a snow and put guns in it.  At the rate of looting ai ships and i did 2 missions ( boring AF) and at my current rate it will take about 3 weeks before i can finally even craft long guns. Im not even gonna attempt crafting a ship any time soon becausethat's not gonna happen. 

The only players ive seen have all run back to port then called in friends so basically pvp is still just a game of teleport ganks and reganks.

I won't go into what i like or dont like because there are 400 threads on that but i will say that i just dont see any way your average gamer is gonna stick with this game unless something changes. 

This is now just a game for hard core big clan rvr guys with no room for the individual. 

Edited June 10, 2017 by Mrdoomed

[maturin]

Quote

7 full days

Quote

redeemed Surprise

These are two things that are not compatible.

"New players" do not have expensive Surprises to outfit. They start from scratch and earn their money like a new player. Thus, they only have to to worry about little brigs and the like in the first week. Your experience is distorted by redeemables and unreasonable expectations (Crafting long guns in the first week? Why?)

 

You might as well be saying that "I arrived at Ellis Island penniless last year. Why can't I finance the Carnegie Steelworks yet?"

 

If you hadn't used your redeemables, you would have had >150,000 to play with, just from missions.

[Mrdoomed]

54 minutes ago, maturin said:

These are two things that are not compatible.

"New players" do not have expensive Surprises to outfit. They start from scratch and earn their money like a new player. Thus, they only have to to worry about little brigs and the like in the first week. Your experience is distorted by redeemables and unreasonable expectations (Crafting long guns in the first week? Why?)

 

You might as well be saying that "I arrived at Ellis Island penniless last year. Why can't I finance the Carnegie Steelworks yet?"

 

If you hadn't used your redeemables, you would have had >150,000 to play with, just from missions.

Re read it. 3 weeks to make longs isnt a week in this world. Also you didnt comprehend anything I said,  you read into it what you play like.

Take my 7 days plus the 3 more weeks i mentioned and thats a month.  You think after a month a new player will STILL only have a brig and be happy not being able to craft even the guns for it?  Yeah i dont think so. Maybe you took a month to finally get to a brig but most players will want more. 

Either way i rest my case on my experience in 7 days and why new players who dont even know what's at the end of the tunnel wont stay. 

Edited June 10, 2017 by Mrdoomed

[Guest]

there's a lot of problems concerning player retention.. but the major issue ain't that you need to be wealthy to get rich.. The major issue is two-fold:

1) AI's are dumb, prob the worst bots I've encountered in any game and that makes the missions boring. Especially the first ones where there's nothing to kill but mindless cutters and the matches turn into a round-about game of chosing the right wave to shoot from and not much else.

2) only one type of missions and it reflects the one track mind of the devs and a majority of the playerbase. Rather than constantly tinkering with combat systems they should think along the lines of professions. What about escort missions? or diplomatic missions? or espionage missions? I could go on, but what's the point. The only missions not combat related are the trading missions and they are not really worth it (says the richest guy on the PvP EU server).

Why does it take PvE marks to make traders? Some ppl actually prefer just to craft and build stuff. Why force them into mindless PvE grinding just so they can have a few hours of crafting? - I get the marks for certain combat oriented ships, but traders?? And don't get me started on the paradox that for some reason the NPC can craft ships at it's magical workbench for about 2/3 the cost of the crafters.

And what about trading? - Some ppl actually don't like the bots (why should they? they are the worst in the carribean after all) and they don't like PvP combat. What they do like is trading and the risk associated with running to and from enemy capitols. And let's face the facts: the main reason ppl take their small flimsy surps out (oh I hate that ship - give me a reno any day) is to hunt for traders. Why then are there no NPC tradeships for sale?

And let's tackle one of the dumbest things to come to the game yet. Ship grinding. I understand the fact that you need to grind the ship of your preference in order to unlock its potential. But have anyone taken a closer look at the grind chart? Funny enough in order to unlock the surprise - one of the most popular ships in the game, you need to unlock the reno to tier 3. In order to unlock the reno to tier 3 you need to unlock the mercury to tier 4. In order to unlock the mercury to tier 4, you need to unlock the privateer to tier 3. In order to unlock the privateer to tier 3 you need to unlock the pickle to tier 3. In order to unlock the pickle to tier 3 you need to unlock the basic cutter to tier 3. My balls just dropped to the floor of sheer exhaustion and old age. <---- THIS IS BY FAR THE WORST DESIGN DECISION I HAVE EVER HAD THE MISFORTUNE TO EXPERIENCE! Why? - because the only reason - the only logical reason for this grind fest is either because the devs wants to force us into the least popular ships in the game, or because the lack the imagination, creativity and skills to implement better content. One option doesn't rule out the other mind you.

[Norfolk nChance]

 

[Mrdoomed]

 

Take a look at my post above. I got a surprisingly different take on it. From an Egotist a funny analogy that could slap you with some home truths. The "suggestion" I needed to get that final rise worked BEAUTIFULLY  (but do you really think [Admin] would ever listen to this idiot...?) 

I think it worked reading the response follow ups.... panic... fear... madness.... at the prospect of losing RA Rank and 50 Craft level. Proving only just my main point...

Try my Rehab task I suggest, then see if you see the difference. 

And this is where I agree whole heartedly with [Maturin]'s point.

 

We are looking at a Two Week Old Universe through our NA XP of between 500 to 3,000 hours...

 

Norfolk.

 

[surfimp]

Norfolk you're flogging that post everywhere, but honestly for those of us who have been through wipes in the past, and/or restarted on multiple servers (sometimes more than once), it's not terribly insightful to comment that people miss having the stuff they had immediately before the wipe.

To be clear, many of the long time players have been through precisely this situation before, and are offering their feedback on the state of the current build as compared to previous builds. Some of them are pointing out that, in their opinion, the current grind is more severe than previous grinds, and are expressing reasonable concerns that this may put new players off. Others have varying opinions and as consequence, varying feedback.

Of course this will sort itself out one way or another, it's just that the majority of negative commentary comes from those who feel the current situation is going to make the playerbase smaller, which isn't good for anyone, certainly not those hoping to have others to play with and against on the servers.

Ultimately, as players but moreso as testers, this is all we can do. We can test the mechanics, offer our feedback to the devs, and either keep participating or not. The notion that Naval Action is some sort of special snowflake and the only way these so-called "junkies" can get their fix is a bit naive. There are plenty of very compelling gaming experiences out there, and with that "home truth" top of mind, the testers are offering their feedback on ways that Naval Action can remain relevant and succeed in competing for players' time and attention.

So... sure, we should continue to give it a chance, but at the same time, the experience needs to be a broadly fun one or people will bail. That's a real Captain Obvious comment, but the point remains, and ultimately the devs are well positioned to read the tea leaves at this point.

[Mrdoomed]

21 minutes ago, Bearwall said:

there's a lot of problems concerning player retention.. but the major issue ain't that you need to be wealthy to get rich.. The major issue is two-fold:

1) AI's are dumb, prob the worst bots I've encountered in any game and that makes the missions boring. Especially the first ones where there's nothing to kill but mindless cutters and the matches turn into a round-about game of chosing the right wave to shoot from and not much else.

2) only one type of missions and it reflects the one track mind of the devs and a majority of the playerbase. Rather than constantly tinkering with combat systems they should think along the lines of professions. What about escort missions? or diplomatic missions? or espionage missions? I could go on, but what's the point. The only missions not combat related are the trading missions and they are not really worth it (says the richest guy on the PvP EU server).

Why does it take PvE marks to make traders? Some ppl actually prefer just to craft and build stuff. Why force them into mindless PvE grinding just so they can have a few hours of crafting? - I get the marks for certain combat oriented ships, but traders?? And don't get me started on the paradox that for some reason the NPC can craft ships at it's magical workbench for about 2/3 the cost of the crafters.

And what about trading? - Some ppl actually don't like the bots (why should they? they are the worst in the carribean after all) and they don't like PvP combat. What they do like is trading and the risk associated with running to and from enemy capitols. And let's face the facts: the main reason ppl take their small flimsy surps out (oh I hate that ship - give me a reno any day) is to hunt for traders. Why then are there no NPC tradeships for sale?

And let's tackle one of the dumbest things to come to the game yet. Ship grinding. I understand the fact that you need to grind the ship of your preference in order to unlock its potential. But have anyone taken a closer look at the grind chart? Funny enough in order to unlock the surprise - one of the most popular ships in the game, you need to unlock the reno to tier 3. In order to unlock the reno to tier 3 you need to unlock the mercury to tier 4. In order to unlock the mercury to tier 4, you need to unlock the privateer to tier 3. In order to unlock the privateer to tier 3 you need to unlock the pickle to tier 3. In order to unlock the pickle to tier 3 you need to unlock the basic cutter to tier 3. My balls just dropped to the floor of sheer exhaustion and old age. <---- THIS IS BY FAR THE WORST DESIGN DECISION I HAVE EVER HAD THE MISFORTUNE TO EXPERIENCE! Why? - because the only reason - the only logical reason for this grind fest is either because the devs wants to force us into the least popular ships in the game, or because the lack the imagination, creativity and skills to implement better content. One option doesn't rule out the other mind you.

This was the type of thing i was driving at. For someone like me who can only play a short time each day it will take months just to unlock all the ships knowledge in order to just level up a ship i want to play in ir months just doingmindless missions or ai trade ship captures in order to even make cannons not to mention more serious gear and pvp used to be fun and probably still is when you can find it but i spend my time chasing players trying to make it to port where there friends all teleport in.

I just cant see someone completely new thinking this is fun or worth the grind and i at least know what its like after the grind...they dont.

[Norfolk nChance]

[Sanson]

well said...

[Mrdoomed]

39 minutes ago, Norfolk nChance said:

 

[Mrdoomed]

 

Take a look at my post above. I got a surprisingly different take on it. From an Egotist a funny analogy that could slap you with some home truths. The "suggestion" I needed to get that final rise worked BEAUTIFULLY  (but do you really think [Admin] would ever listen to this idiot...?) 

I think it worked reading the response follow ups.... panic... fear... madness.... at the prospect of losing RA Rank and 50 Craft level. Proving only just my main point...

Try my Rehab task I suggest, then see if you see the difference. 

And this is where I agree whole heartedly with [Maturin]'s point.

 

We are looking at a Two Week Old Universe through our NA XP of between 500 to 3,000 hours...

 

Norfolk.

 

Im not worried or bothered that im not rich or that i dont have all I used to have and im quite happy just using a snow or suprise.  

What I think will kill new players is this. I for instance want long guns on my snow because i like them so i have to either buy them from a crafter for a moderate fortune ( and if I sink they are gone) which will take me at my limited schedule a week to make or i can make them. But to make them i must first make an outpost ( no problem ) then i need a workshop ( wait what? And how much) but then that workshop requires not only another fortune to build but also a mountain of resorces  (that i will have to somehow get) then and only then i can finally get around to making some damn guns. Thats a lot of trouble for an average gamer to go through just to make something as trivial as cannons. 

They just put in a giant long list of trivial, monotonous, tedious, and silly things eveeyone everyone must do that doesnt need to be done.

Edited June 11, 2017 by Mrdoomed

[Norfolk nChance]

1 minute ago, Mrdoomed said:

Im not worried or bothered that im not rich or that i dont have all I used to have and im quite happy just using a snow or suprise.  

What I think will kill new players is this. I for instance want long guns on my snow because i like them so i have to either buy them from a crafter for a moderate fortune ( and if I sink they are gone) which will take me at my limited schedule a week to make or i can make them. But to make them i must first make an outpost ( no problem ) then i need a workshop ( wait what? And how much) but then that workshop requires not only another fortune to build but also a mountain of resorces  (that i will have to somehow get) then and only then i can finally get around to making some damn guns. Thats a lot of trouble for an average gamer to go through just to make something as trivial as cannons. 

 

 

[Mrdoomed]

Actually that is a really good point. My Newbie love affair is only a "Honeymoon..." the grind will still come all the same when he graduates from rookie to a new player stage.  just not right away. I was just reading a post reply from a newbie losing his SNOW. No whine he's played EvE don't fly what you can't afford to lose. But coming out of the BASIC Cutter stage, he needs to "Roll a Hard 6..." no choice.

 

 

 

[ironhammer500]

15 hours ago, maturin said:

These are two things that are not compatible.

"New players" do not have expensive Surprises to outfit. They start from scratch and earn their money like a new player. Thus, they only have to to worry about little brigs and the like in the first week. Your experience is distorted by redeemables and unreasonable expectations (Crafting long guns in the first week? Why?)

 

You might as well be saying that "I arrived at Ellis Island penniless last year. Why can't I finance the Carnegie Steelworks yet?"

 

If you hadn't used your redeemables, you would have had >150,000 to play with, just from missions.

For once i agree with you, people keep claiming "this game is easy for me i started fresh and i make billions so new people can do it to".. They forget they had redeemable, they forget they had knowledge on ship handling, they forget they know the trade routes, they forget they know the mechanics of the game so are prone to make less costly mistakes.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, PYR said:

the point is that it is a game about sailling ships of the 18-19 century... things cannot go as fats as if we were in space during the xxII century. If you have truble to progress by playing alone, you should join a gilde and progress faster with other players. Some guilde are just for casual players, not hard core, and to play together and have fun

Personnally i like the slow path to progress. If you can reach the max rank in 1 month..... what to do next? you will also lose interset.

Sorry for my bad English

I agree to the point that there needs to be a tangible challenge to progression. I do however recognize numerous problems in current build.

As a trader/crafter I love that you can no longer tp from OP to FT. As a PvP'er I see that it has severely limited the time I can spend hunting - which is never a guarenteed success to begin with. Anyone experienced with NA is of the opinion that the AI is incredibly dull, predictive and repetitive - so the most fun, and challenge, is playing against the human element. This requires two things - players online and a relatively easy way to get to the action. I often (if not mostly) ridicule the US for being poor PvP'ers, but the fact is that there is a reason why my impression of most US players are bad - They have by far the longest travel time to the most populated areas and as such the farthest to go in order to get challenging PvP. Players will want fun, That's a basic truth to all gaming. If NA is perceived to be only a grind, timesink and not much else - the players migrate to other games to the detriment of all.

I could point at a lot more issues but that would require more time than I have this weekend.

Edited June 11, 2017 by Guest

[HoneyBaddger]

18 hours ago, Mrdoomed said:

 

This is now just a game for hard core big clan rvr guys with no room for the individual. 

If you can't beat am. 

[The Wren]

A major problem seems to be that we have Communist Russian developers attempting to design a Capitalist economy.

Sometimes I feel that this whole thing is just a KGB propaganda mission to finally convince us that Capitalism doesn't work!!

Edited June 12, 2017 by The Wren

[monk33y]

22 hours ago, airborneguy said:

If you can't beat am. 

Complain on the forums. .!