Snow HP

[Captain Lust]

Why does the Snow only have 1425 sail hp? For comparison the cutter has 900 and other 6th rates around 2500. I can get behind it having a paper hull/armor in exchange for the fair amount of guns, but the abysmal sail hp combined with the paper hull cripples it too much in pvp. Did i overlook something? What's supposed to be the role of the Snow in PvP, if any?

[Lonar]

Fun Fact about the Snow is, i build one completly Fir without cannons its faster (14.06) then my Cedar Suprise. So it could potenially have a use in Trader hunting and escaping ships like a Suprise if the Suprise dont demast you.

[Guest]

With its upwind speed and chasers it's a great chasing/tagging ship now that the rattlesnake seems to be gone.

[Sir Texas Sir]

Balance cause it has way more guns of any other ship of it's class.  So its basically your glass cannon

[troody]

basically its not an ideal PvP Ship:

- if u can not crew more than 150 u still need to learn the game, in pvp u will be just a happy meal for many experienced PvP players

- since the BC is gone (thank god!) most ppl use the following PvP Ships: Privateer (to escape against the wind), Reno, Surprise (fast, good guns, enough crew), Endy, (Pirate)Frigate, Trinco

that means in a Snow u cannot hunt the privateer and against the rest u will suck as hell

u cannot expect that every ship would perfectly fit for pvp. snow is nice but so far, no pvp ship.

Edited June 9, 2017 by troody

[z4ys]

5 minutes ago, troody said:

u cannot expect that every ship would perfectly fit for pvp. snow is nice but so far, no pvp ship.

What defines a pvp ship? The ship most people use?

I recently used a navy brig and was successful in capturing 2tbrigs and a belle poule in one battle.

I used a pickle to capture a surprise and made 2 surprise run from me.

Red Duke and I captured a trinc with a brig and a Niagara.

But you are right in a way some ships offer an easy mode. The surprise is the best example for it. Be mainstream sail a surprise everyone can do that it's the most forgiving ship when you make mistakes.

Every ship can be a pvp ship. Just use it right.

But back to topic: I don't know how sail hp is calculated. But I would guess it depends on sail area. The snow has small and short masts that may result in less sail area and means less sail hp.

[troody]

11 minutes ago, rediii said:

I would even say the snow is useless. In PvE it performes worse than a Brig. In PvP it's even outperformed by a Cerb.

And even the Cerb is already useless since the Renommee outperformes the Cerberus in every way.

 

Atleast the Snow should be outside of the forced shipknowledge tree in my oppinion.

haha my original intention was to write: the Snow is basically shit

cause of that argumentation u must say: put every ship out of the tree thats has no real use ^^

[troody]

3 minutes ago, z4ys said:

What defines a pvp ship? The ship most people use?

I recently used a navy brig and was successful in capturing 2tbrigs and a belle poule in one battle.

I used a pickle to capture a surprise and made 2 surprise run from me.

Red Duke and I captured a trinc with a brig and a Niagara.

But you are right in a way some ships offer an easy mode. The surprise is the best example for it. Be mainstream sail a surprise everyone can do that it's the most forgiving ship when you make mistakes.

Every ship can be a pvp ship. Just use it right.

But back to topic: I don't know how sail hp is calculated. But I would guess it depends on sail area. The snow has small and short masts that may result in less sail area and means less sail hp.

to tell a few storys about capturing or killing noobs in bigger ships wont help here

sure, u can make pvp in every ship, sure u can win nearly against every ship in every ship, sure most ppl on OW are struggling in PvP - the ship doesnt matter

 

take the snow, try to get pvp but i guess u wont live long enough, cause so many surprise's or reno's are hunting outside and against these hunters u wont have that many chances - so where is the smart aspect by taking a snow for pvp? 

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

OT- on your observation of that battle - My Brig was faster than the Trinc by a fair margin.

On the Snow.

Snow masts are very sturdy. More so than the Brig which is the counterpart at 6th rate. Brig has a larger canvas area.

I hope they are modeled and values are up to the ships schemes.

The same comparison can be made of Privateer vs Pickle, with pickle being volumes more sturdy than the Privateer. Why oh why... 

[admin]

5 hours ago, Captain Lust said:

Why does the Snow only have 1425 sail hp? For comparison the cutter has 900 and other 6th rates around 2500. I can get behind it having a paper hull/armor in exchange for the fair amount of guns, but the abysmal sail hp combined with the paper hull cripples it too much in pvp. Did i overlook something? What's supposed to be the role of the Snow in PvP, if any?

snow will be updated.. it is indeed should be comparable to a brig

[akd]

1 minute ago, admin said:

snow will be updated.. it is indeed should be comparable to a brig

Put them side by side.  Snow is very small.

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, akd said:

Put them side by side.  Snow is very small.

Yep. And from what I've read both should be equal in size.

 

The most visible difference between the brig and the snow is in the latter's "snow-mast", stepped directly behind the main mast.^[7] In contrast to the brig, where the gaff and boom attach directly to the main mast, a snow's gaff, and in later times its boom, were attached to the snow-mast. The use of this characteristic snow-mast offered several advantages over attaching the gaff directly to the main mast.^[8]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_(ship)#Comparison_with_brig

Edited June 9, 2017 by Guest

[Captain Lust]

5 hours ago, rediii said:

I would even say the snow is useless. In PvE it performes worse than a Brig. In PvP it's even outperformed by a Cerb.

And even the Cerb is already useless since the Renommee outperformes the Cerberus in every way.

 

Atleast the Snow should be outside of the forced shipknowledge tree in my oppinion.

This is pretty much what i am thinking. Thank you.

[Captain Lust]

3 hours ago, admin said:

snow will be updated.. it is indeed should be comparable to a brig

Thank you, Sir! Glad to hear this.

[akd]

7 hours ago, Jœrnson said:

Yep. And from what I've read both should be equal in size.

 

The most visible difference between the brig and the snow is in the latter's "snow-mast", stepped directly behind the main mast.^[7] In contrast to the brig, where the gaff and boom attach directly to the main mast, a snow's gaff, and in later times its boom, were attached to the snow-mast. The use of this characteristic snow-mast offered several advantages over attaching the gaff directly to the main mast.^[8]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_(ship)#Comparison_with_brig

"Brig" and "snow" don't define a size, but a rig.  There were late Age of Sail brigs as large as earlier frigates.

[DeRuyter]

7 hours ago, Jœrnson said:

Yep. And from what I've read both should be equal in size.

 

The most visible difference between the brig and the snow is in the latter's "snow-mast", stepped directly behind the main mast.^[7] In contrast to the brig, where the gaff and boom attach directly to the main mast, a snow's gaff, and in later times its boom, were attached to the snow-mast. The use of this characteristic snow-mast offered several advantages over attaching the gaff directly to the main mast.^[8]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_(ship)#Comparison_with_brig

You are correct about the rig which is the difference really as @akd pointed out.  Both are modeled after real ships, the Fair American  and the HMS Ontario, so the size comparison is available - the Ontario being longer by 10 ft.  I am not sure about the size of the rig though. Fair American was noted to be a fast privateer which suggests a large rig.

I don't find the snow in game to be that terrible, it is maneuverable and could outmaneuver an unwary Cerberus captain. I mean comparing it to bigger ships is apples and oranges. If you are a new player it is not a bad choice, and has the advantage of chasers for running down traders.