Speed limit

[Captain Lust]

Now that we have a speed limit of 15 knots for all ships, small frigates that used to have the advantage of speed over heavy frigates are almost useless with the only advantage of being cheaper. Is this intentional? It kind of ruins ship balance even more.... I don't know what your plans for Rattlesnake are but if you can make a Constitution go 15 knots with the insane speed mod stacking, nobody will want the Rattler being capped at the same 15 knots anyways... 

My teak/teak Renommeé turns like a brick since the patch, has no bow chasers and is as fast as a Constitution now.... I don't know about you guys but oh boy just thinking about all the fun to be had while grinding for the surprise unlock with it gets me hard AF...

[maturin]

Death to speed mods

[Liq]

2 minutes ago, maturin said:

Death to speed mods

Especially when it's RNG PvE drop only (copper plating) smh

 

Edited June 8, 2017 by Liquicity

[admin]

25 minutes ago, Captain Lust said:

Now that we have a speed limit of 15 knots for all ships, small frigates that used to have the advantage of speed over heavy frigates are almost useless with the only advantage of being cheaper. Is this intentional? It kind of ruins ship balance even more.... I don't know what your plans for Rattlesnake are but if you can make a Constitution go 15 knots with the insane speed mod stacking, nobody will want the Rattler being capped at the same 15 knots anyways... 

 

The angles are still valid (should be valid). So Privateer at 15 knots (angle 45) cannot chase constitution at 15 knots (angle 135)

but of course some speed mods could be a little bit unbalanced.

[maturin]

6 minutes ago, admin said:

The angles are still valid (should be valid). So Privateer at 15 knots (angle 45) cannot chase constitution at 15 knots (angle 135)

but of course some speed mods could be a little bit unbalanced.

 

Most speed differences for a given point of sail are less than a knot. Adding 3.5 kts to a failfit frigate will wipe out that difference.

You're pushing players into OW PvP with 1 durability ships while severing the two most important lifelines that protect against ganks:

1. No more escaping with skill and knowledge, everything is gear-based

2. No more logging off after a fight to escape the revenge gank

 

What's the point of using a Cerberus on the OW now? If I just saved up my money to buy it and don't have a stable full of speed mods, I am just rat food. Back in the day I escaped a large diverse gank group in a Cerb.

[maturin]

3 minutes ago, Hodo said:

Exactly.

If a Constitution was chasing a Rattlesnake, both have a top speed of 15kn, the Rattlesnake will have an speed advantage at 135 and at 60, against the Constitution.  Which means the Rattlesnake has an escape route if needed.

So basically, only sail the fastest ship in the game, or get sunk. Most ships have no escape route. Surprise, Rattlesnake and light vessels are the exception. 

 

This is the Escapomatrix. It is beautiful and results in a skill-based game with diverse options on the OW. Speed mods take a sledgehammer to it.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=651042782

[Powderhorn]

What we really need is variable wind speed...

[Twig]

Didn't know that there were a max speed limit oO

[Captain Lust]

27 minutes ago, Liquicity said:

Especially when it's RNG PvE drop only (copper plating) smh

I have a hard time finding anything more annoying in the game atm... oh wait... regional refits with super rare drops or somewhat exclusive nation goods required to craft 

[maturin]

18 minutes ago, Powderhorn said:

What we really need is variable wind speed...

Well, sort of.

Variable wind speed only solves this problem IF the effects of speed mods are also diversified so they don't stack and create monsters.

But that only works if the devs stop trying to stack everything.

 

[Captain Lust]

39 minutes ago, maturin said:

Most speed differences for a given point of sail are less than a knot. Adding 3.5 kts to a failfit frigate will wipe out that difference.

You're pushing players into OW PvP with 1 durability ships while severing the two most important lifelines that protect against ganks:

1. No more escaping with skill and knowledge, everything is gear-based

2. No more logging off after a fight to escape the revenge gank

 

What's the point of using a Cerberus on the OW now? If I just saved up my money to buy it and don't have a stable full of speed mods, I am just rat food. Back in the day I escaped a large diverse gank group in a Cerb.

Actually this sums up the only real problem i have with the game right now pretty well....

Edited June 8, 2017 by Captain Lust

[Baptiste Gallouédec]

 A solution could be to set a speedcap per ship making it impossible for any ship to gain more than a same small % global speed bonus (this small % should be small enought to make useless to use more than one or two speed mods), or any additional speed bonus needing to be with malus as for staysails, studding sails, or with limitation (bonus only works when hold is full/empty) etc..

 

 

 

Edited June 8, 2017 by Baptiste Gallouédec

[Lonar]

Remove the Speedcap and lessen the speedbonus you get from the mods and maybe the ships a little bit. So the Speedrace isnt out of control. Everything with the same speed no matter the angles is boring because everyone will sail the same ship with the same mods and the most weapons. Wich btw. will end in everybody sailling the best 4th rate/ship of the line with all speed mods something i thought the patch should change.

Edited June 8, 2017 by Lonar

[Remus]

2 hours ago, admin said:

The angles are still valid (should be valid). So Privateer at 15 knots (angle 45) cannot chase constitution at 15 knots (angle 135)

but of course some speed mods could be a little bit unbalanced.

Surely it can. My guess is it is just as easy (or hard) to get a Privateer to 15 at 135 as it is to get a Constitution to 15 at 135.

You'd never do it the other way round though. The Privateer would always be able to run at 45 degrees (but maybe not if the Connie has accurate gunners )

[DeRuyter]

2 hours ago, Powderhorn said:

What we really need is variable wind speed...

This ^^. Set a floor so no one is becalmed, etc. One thing to remember is that this does not mean that a lighter ship will escape - in high wind/heavy weather the Bellona or Constitution may just catch that Rattlesnake, whereas in lighter wind the smaller ship normally get away. It really is the overall weather effects - a privateer in a storm may have a hard time escaping a large ship without risking losing its' rig. So you would need to add weather related rigging damage as well. Although I am in favor of variable weather effects I can envision a lot of crying when people are caught out by weather RNG. (like IRL ).

 

2 hours ago, Baptiste Gallouédec said:

 A solution could be to set a speedcap per ship making it impossible for any ship to gain more than a same small % global speed bonus (this small % should be small enought to make useless to use more than one or two speed mods), or any additional speed bonus needing to be with malus as for staysails, studding sails, or with limitation (bonus only works when hold is full/empty) etc..

 

This is called hull speed and it is a calculation based on the waterline length of the ship. Some ships - ie; 1st rates would usually not ever go this fast though. So yes top speed should be done per ship ideally based on the historical performance of the ship.

Stacked mods should have diminishing returns. Maybe start the ship slower so that mods will ultimately bring the ship up to her historical speed. (like WoWs).

[maturin]

Quote

This ^^. Set a floor so no one is becalmed, etc. One thing to remember is that this does not mean that a lighter ship will escape - in high wind/heavy weather the Bellona or Constitution may just catch that Rattlesnake, whereas in lighter wind the smaller ship normally get away. It really is the overall weather effects - a privateer in a storm may have a hard time escaping a large ship without risking losing its' rig. So you would need to add weather related rigging damage as well. Although I am in favor of variable weather effects I can envision a lot of crying when people are caught out by weather RNG. (like IRL ).

Aye.

Variable windspeed makes it acceptable to have 13 kt Bellonas. But a Bellona that goes 13 kts all the time, like in the current build, is an abomination.

 

Quote

This is called hull speed and it is a calculation based on the waterline length of the ship. Some ships - ie; 1st rates would usually not ever go this fast though. So yes top speed should be done per ship ideally based on the historical performance of the ship.

IIRC hull speed on a first rate is over 18 knots and the cutter's is around 11 knots. Not a useful concept for the game. I'm pretty sure that Pride of Baltimore has exceeded her hull speed before, same with some other traditional schooner replicas.

[Chustler]

Have we not learned the lessons of stacking overpowered mods over the course of this games development?  All mods need to be VERY SLIGHT changes to normal ship stats.

[Riparian]

Agree, current speed thing is not good.

If you really want to use the speed limit, then it should be ship specific and not universal.

Better yet, drop the speed limit altogether, lower the bonus per mod and limit the total bonus from mods to max 10%.

[Koltes]

Any hard caps is a sign of imbalances in the game mechanics so hard caps are just a "lazy" solution or temporary. With addition of the speed mods hard cap were necessary to contain/control the bonuses. Now is a good time to start working on the balance:

1. Remove speed caps;

2. Make slightly higher force differences between Jib and Main so angles are still > than any speed mods;

3. Lover 1% on all speed mods;

Start there and go forward

 

Second phase should rebalancing the actual ships:

1. Rework each ships speed parameters. Fir Connie should still not outrun whiteoak Reno like it is now.

2. Rework speed mod balances per ship and their bonuses. Today I can built a speed Connie and it will sail 15kn along side with speed Reno. This absolutely kills "glass cannons" and this entire gameplay side.

3. With such powerful mods ships base speed needs to have larger differences. Connie needs to be slower and Reno needs to be faster.

[Blackjack Morgan]

The solution is so obvious to the same problems we have gone back and forth on for YEARS now ffs. Stop allowing multiple stacking mods....stop having mods being RNG based....and your regional bonuses are a hot mess as well. In fact scrap most of it and just have a simpler system where people can choose mods or trims but with diminishing returns. It's like we are purposefully making things more difficult and complex then they need to be....

[Yngvarr]

On 6/8/2017 at 5:01 PM, maturin said:

so they don't stack and create monsters.

Yesterday, i only narrowly outran a pirate Surprise with my Trader Lynx.

I was sailing on OW, 20 knots at 30-35 degrees against the wind, and that damned speed-modded Surprise was still closing with me at that angle.

Which according to the sailing profiles, should not have been possible.

[Remus]

11 hours ago, Yngvarr said:

Yesterday, i only narrowly outran a pirate Surprise with my Trader Lynx.

I was sailing on OW, 20 knots at 30-35 degrees against the wind, and that damned speed-modded Surprise was still closing with me at that angle.

Which according to the sailing profiles, should not have been possible.

How much were you carrying? And surely on OW you need to go much closer to the wind than that to beat a Surprise.

[Yngvarr]

3 T-lynxes, full.

and i was sailing 1 and a half point of the wind at 20- 21 knots

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Isn't there a refit for a stronger rigging equipment ?

 

[Lonar]

There is also a Skillbook for better Mast HP. Put to be honest as weak as masts are at the moment 20% or whatever are useless ... Or lets better call out the real problem cannons are far to easy to aim for precission shoots 

Edited June 11, 2017 by Lonar