Placeholder traders

[ajffighter86]

Any plans to replace the trader snow and trader brig that are currently just combat-models with a few cannons (in weird configurations). I mean, the trader snow has at least broadside cannons, but I don't know if having just 2 stern cannons was some sort of merchant trend-setting back then.

The argument I'd rather make is that the standard snow and the standard brig are supposed to be multi-role vessels (combat and a passable trader). The brig (which no one uses) has had its hold space completely gutted.

I'd just like to see some proper 6th rate trade vessels. After 2 years of trade brigs and snows, it'd be cool to see something that's more than a placeholder.

The le-gros is a beautiful ship and one that you could consider a proper trading vessel. I think it would be more appealing to new players to include a few more armed traders, since we tell them to trade to make money and yet all we give them are these dinky little 6th rates and a good-luck pat on the back, lol

Edited June 6, 2017 by ajffighter86

[Salty Dog.]

1 hour ago, ajffighter86 said:

Any plans to replace the trader snow and trader brig that are currently just combat-models with a few cannons (in weird configurations). I mean, the trader snow has at least broadside cannons, but I don't know if having just 2 stern cannons was some sort of merchant trend-setting back then.

The argument I'd rather make is that the standard snow and the standard brig are supposed to be multi-role vessels (combat and a passable trader). The brig (which no one uses) has had its hold space completely gutted.

I'd just like to see some proper 6th rate trade vessels. After 2 years of trade brigs and snows, it'd be cool to see something that's more than a placeholder.

The le-gros is a beautiful ship and one that you could consider a proper trading vessel. I think it would be more appealing to new players to include a few more armed traders, since we tell them to trade to make money and yet all we give them are these dinky little 6th rates and a good-luck pat on the back, lol

personally, I would like a method to make all 5th rates and below into traders by "removing guns"/"converting into a trade ship".  So you could have a "Trader Frigate" with only a few deck guns but lots of cargo room.  

Historical support:  War ships were converted into transport ships such as the HMS Leopard was converted into a troop ship in 1812.  Other war ships were sold out of service and were converted into trader ships. 

[Salty Dog.]

1 hour ago, Hodo said:

I use the brig, and the Navy Brig quite a bit.  They are arguably my favorite 6th rates.   But the problem is they are generic terms for what they actually are.  The Rattlesnake, Heavy Rattlesnake, are also "brigs"  the Snow is even a "Brig" but it is a "Snow" sail brig,  The Niagara and the Mercury are also brigs.   

2 masted single deck ships are often referred to as brigs.  The Brig in game is the USS Fair American, a privateer brig used during the Revolutionary war and during the War of 1812.   I agree that they should give us more options in trade ships... but a brig should be a brig, if I put guns on it, it sacrifices its cargo, if I put cargo on it, I sacrifice guns.  

 

actually, a snow is a snow... it was converted from a three masted ship and if you look at the game modle, it IS still a three masted ship.  Having what they call a "snow mast" directly behind the main mast

[maturin]

Quote

actually, a snow is a snow... it was converted from a three masted ship and if you look at the game modle, it IS still a three masted ship.  Having what they call a "snow mast" directly behind the main mast

Evolved, not converted.

 

Quote

 the snow was a brig by definition.

A snow is a snow and a brig is a brig. Pedantically speaking, there's no overlap.

In practice, the two types became just about identical.

[Remus]

I'm curious, @Hodo. I dare say in modern terminology a snow is a type of brig, but I don't recall ever reading a contemporary account where a snow was called anything other than a snow, at least regarding what type of vessel it is.

Of course we then run up against naval terminology, admirally illustrated in that lovely passage in Master and Commander when Maturin objected to being called a surgeon

"‘I am sure it is anathema to the philosophic mind,’ said James Dillon. ‘But the naval mind fairly revels in it, so it does. Take that word sloop, for example.’
‘Yes,’ said Stephen, narrowing his eyes through the haze of port and trying to remember the definitions he had heard.
‘Why, now, a sloop, as you know, is properly a one-masted vessel, with a fore-and-aft rig. But in the Navy a sloop may be ship-rigged – she may have three masts.’
‘Or take the Sophie,’ cried the master, anxious to bring his crumb of comfort. ‘She’s rightly a brig, you know, Doctor, with her two masts.’ He held up two fingers, in case a landman might not fully comprehend so great a number. ‘But the minute Captain Aubrey sets foot in her, why, she too becomes a sloop; for a brig is a lieutenant’s command.’
‘Or take me,’ said Jack. ‘I am called captain, but really I am only a master and commander.’
‘Or the place where the men sleep, just for’ard,’ said the purser, pointing. ‘Rightly speaking, and official, ’tis the gun-deck, though there’s never a gun on it. We call it the spar-deck – though there’s no spars, neither – but some say the gun-deck still, and call the right gun-deck the upper-deck. Or take this brig, which is no true brig at all, not with her square mainsail, but rather a sorts of snow, or a hermaphrodite.’
‘No, no, my dear sir,’ said James Dillon, ‘never let a mere word grieve your heart. We have nominal captain’s servants who are, in fact, midshipmen; we have nominal able seamen on our books who are scarcely breeched – they are a thousand miles away and still at school; we swear we have not shifted any backstays, when we shift them continually; and we take many other oaths that nobody believes – no, no, you may call yourself what you please, so long as you do your duty. The Navy speaks in symbols, and you may suit what meaning you choose to the words.’"

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Snows, Pinks, etc

There's a lot of specific designations for the traders ( or less trading ones ).

I would guess it is quite specific to the sail plan in its entirety but will let others answer this one.

[AngryPanCake]

I do like the ideas of having some sort of dedicated trade ships, with significant hold capacity and also have the ability to convert some existing non trade ships into trade ships, like suggested by Salty Dog.

The conversion should take place when all or most guns are removed, which increases hold space. Let's say ship A has 20 guns and 250 tons of hold space, each removed gun will confer let's say, an additionl 25 tons for instance, by the time you take out all the guns (20x25=500 tons) the converted trade ship will have a capacity of 750 tons, which is quite decent. right?

Edited June 6, 2017 by AngryPanCake

[ajffighter86]

9 hours ago, AngryPanCake said:

I do like the ideas of having some sort of dedicated trade ships, with significant hold capacity and also have the ability to convert some existing non trade ships into trade ships, like suggested by Salty Dog.

The conversion should take place when all or most guns are removed, which increases hold space. Let's say ship A has 20 guns and 250 tons of hold space, each removed gun will confer let's say, an additionl 25 tons for instance, by the time you take out all the guns (20x25=500 tons) the converted trade ship will have a capacity of 750 tons, which is quite decent. right?

Guns are a bit light. Not sure how a 4lb cannon weighs less than the cannonball it fires. God help you if you're hauling Cuban tobacco leaves and no one knows why the Spanish treasury is minting coins that weigh 80.00.

Kentucky bourbon is about the right weight, at least, the bottles I buy in real life.

Edited June 7, 2017 by ajffighter86

[Baptiste Gallouédec]

Either make the trader versions allowed to use the smaller gun class their combat counterparts can use, or give us proper small traders models (how the Trader Brig could carry so much more hold than his combat counterpart, and not that less than a Gros Ventre is a mystery.)

Hell, even the same models with gunport closed and different paint scheme could do the trick even if i would enjoy to see more snow/cutter/schooner/brig in game. But looking at those ugly placeholders with empty gunports open and gun's shadow glitch seems lazy and i hope this wont make it for the game release, that don't look professional.

[ajffighter86]

2 hours ago, Baptiste Gallouédec said:

Either make the trader versions allowed to use the smaller gun class their combat counterparts can use, or give us proper small traders models (how the Trader Brig could carry so much more hold than his combat counterpart, and not that less than a Gros Ventre is a mystery.)

Hell, even the same models with gunport closed and different paint scheme could do the trick even if i would enjoy to see more snow/cutter/schooner/brig in game. But looking at those ugly placeholders with empty gunports open and gun's shadow glitch seems lazy and i hope this wont make it for the game release, that don't look professional.

Yeah that still confuses all the new players. Granted this is not a critical issue with the game and would be a low priority, but it's been 2 years now.

2 years of:

"You do not have cannons equipped."

Then the new guys try to put cannons on it and can't.

Hauling cargo is more important than ever with the free-town delivery system gone. But there's no low-level traders that are viable enough to give them at least a fighting chance.

Edited June 8, 2017 by ajffighter86