The Pirate State or NA Pirate Mechanics that we pirates want

[Koltes]

OUTLINE

Pirates should be unique I think everyone agrees on that. Basic vision of pirate nation is that pirates have no ships of the line, don’t conquer the land etc etc. However there are players who want to be pirates, but still experience SOL gameplay.

For this to work Pirates needs to have such a mechanic that does not put them into disadvantage. Right now Pirates are a nation and must survive by nation means – expend their territories and protect their land and because of such must build SOLs and take part in conquest.

Below is proposed detailed, simple to comprehend Pirate State mechanic that will sort out all pirate related issues and most importantly will keep nations less toxic towards pirates and give pirates the gameplay they are after.

In short we remove pirate nation that has to compete with other nations in conquest of territories and introduce Pirate State that mainly lives off what it can catch. Pirates will no longer fight for conquest for themselves, but they will take participation in conquest as privateers for any nation they choose to privateer for.

 

BELONGING

Today pirates as we know it are a nation without identity. Any nation player can say I’m a Brit or Spanish or else. Pirates cannot do that as “Pirate” is not a nationality. However, all pirates did belong to some nation. There were British pirates, there were French pirates, Spanish etc.
This means that all pirates needs to receive “nationality” and the Pirate nation become a State and be governed by the laws of the Brethren of the Coast.
 

PIRATE’S NATIONALITY
All pirates receive a nationality by their choice so all pirates become a mix of people of different nations, just as it was supposed to be.

 

PIRATE TERRITORIES
Pirates cannot own any land. To participate in any conquest they first must become a privateer for a nation to enter PBs on behalf of that nation.

There are number of ports/places which are accessible to pirates.
- National Free Towns - such as Nassau that belonged to Great Britain. Any British player OR a pirate may enter Nassau. Any French player OR a pirate may enter La Tortue and so on. All nations would have such towns that accessible by pirates and players of that nation;
- Neutral Ports - Trade Hubs (3-4 on the map) can be entered by anyone including pirates. Their shops/markets are linked together, thus allowing access to the market of all of them so purchases, sales and contracts can be done distantly between them (note: the delivery is still done physically between any ports including hubs).
- Pirate Dens - small hideouts like a secret harbour with a shop that has no NPC goods (only what is sold there by pirates themselves). Pirate Dens cannot be entered by any nation. Pirate Dens spread in large numbers across Caribbean and can be located on main lands and small islands in a distance from Nation towns.
- Any Nation  Town - can be entered by a pirate with a Smuggler tag.



PIRATE PROFESSIONS

Smuggler
The smuggler tag is removed from all nations. Smuggler becomes exclusively a pirate’s profession and grants him entry into the nation's territory while in Outlaw state. While Privateering for a nation pirates may freely enter that nation ports. For nation players to trade or acquire goods that are not produced by their nation there should be global trade hubs - Neutral Ports (3-4 ports in various regions across the map that share shop information). Else they will have to deal with a pirate/smuggler to get them the goods.
In order to become a smuggler and sell goods between nations a player have to become a pirate. Smuggler is a pirate trade profession equivalent to nation’s merchant profession.

Privateering
Pirate has to sail to a Nation Free Port (like Nassau for Brits) and acquire Letter of Marque. That grants him a temporary patent which means that he becomes that nation player for the duration period of the patent. In case if pirate becomes a privateer of his own nation the patent does not expire. During privateering pirate may take part in any nation’s activities such as conquest. Privateers are getting same PB and battle rewards as the nation players as a payment for their privateering work. Privateers can also participate and even conquer land solely as a privateer force, however the land becomes the nation's land they were serving under, thus each nation may have their own pirate forces working for them or with them.

Privateers sail with two flags. The pirate flag and the flag of the nation they are privateering for. While privateering for the nation pirates technically become a player of that nation. They cannot attack players from that nation, neither they can be attacked by them in return.

The patent can be canceled by the pirate at any time which will take 1 hours to take effect and 1 week cooldown before another one can be acquired from the same nation. Canceling privateering contract returns the pirate to the Outlaw state. Any one pirate can only have one privateering contract going on at any one time

Pirate
When pirates are not working for a nation as privateers they remain in the Outlaw state. This means that they are open targets for anyone and can attack any targets in return. While in the Outlaw state pirates may not participate in any conquest ports battles, however they may initiate a raid attack on any nation region.



RAIDS
Any group of pirates may initiate a raid attack on any nations regions and manually set time when the attack will happen (any time between 24 to 48 hours from the moment of declaration, except the time window blocked by Lord Protectors).

If the raid PB won by the pirates the region is considered under Raid and blocked to a maximum of 3 days. It is still belongs to the nation (pirates can’t own regions), but all production buildings are stopped and no longer producing for the nation. Instead pirates automatically have access to the buildings that are producing in the region and they may gather resources while region is blocked. The resource gathering will become the most important reason for the pirates to raid any regions.

Pirates do not need to build new building, they are raiding those that are owned by the nation and gather resources free of charge. Basically raiding them. The nation may retaliate and attempt to regain region earlier than the maximum 3 days blockade timer. They have to create PB in the same manner as pirates did when they attacked the region. The PB time also set between 24 and 48 hours. If nation wins the PB it takes the full control of the region. If nation loses the PB then the blockade runs until 3 day timer from the first pirate attack is expired.

Edited June 2, 2017 by koltes

[Norfolk nChance]

2 hours ago, koltes said:

Smuggler
The smuggler tag is removed from all nations. Smuggler becomes exclusively a pirate’s profession. For nation players to trade or acquire goods that are not produced by their nation there should be global trade hubs - Neutral Ports (3-4 ports in various regions across the map that share shop information). Else they will have to deal with a pirate/smuggler to get them the goods.
In order to become a smuggler and sell goods between nations a player have to become a pirate. Smuggler is a pirate trade profession equivalent to nation’s merchant profession.

 

Absolutely agree. The Smuggler Tag should be a Unique Pirate feature. 

The Pirate struggles with the current NPC Overlay and needs a Buff offset. A Unique feature over Nation status. My thoughts were along the lines on OW refit ships to suit pirate needs more. The other was the "Mask". The ability to stop an enemy player identifying the pirate or otherwise is way too easy at 12 miles in the game. I'd suggest a Pirate mechanic that somehow masks the pirates nation till a lot closer in...  

Norfolk.

Edited June 2, 2017 by Norfolk nChance

[OneEyedSnake]

1 hour ago, Norfolk nChance said:

 

Absolutely agree. The Smuggler Tag should be a Unique Pirate feature. 

The Pirate struggles with the current NPC Overlay and needs a Buff offset. A Unique feature over Nation status. My thoughts were along the lines on OW refit ships to suit pirate needs more. The other was the "Mask". The ability to stop an enemy player pirate or otherwise is way too easy at 12 miles in the game. I'd suggest a Pirate mechanic that somehow masks the pirates nation till a lot closer in...  

Norfolk.

With this those, nations did historically have trade agreements for open port access between two nations to trade. 

With the alliance rework it would be fabulous to have trade agreements, non aggression pacts, alliances, etc. as all individual options for national members to choose from. This way agreements made over TS can then have a real mechanic in game. These things also should be updated daily, and when the opposing side over rules the other, then it is flipped to off or on. 

Certain mechanics, such a trade agreement would be disabled by a game mechanic if say the nations were rivals or were at war. Same with obviously the non aggression pact. 

[Norfolk nChance]

[OneEyeSnake]

 

Not to detract from [Koltes] OP, the idea for the Pirate faction was to be a catalyst to “stir up trouble”. For me I completely disagree with the “Lite” Sandbox model we are currently working with. The NPC Nation overlay is what’s strangling the game. And killing the Pirate nation.

Take off the hand-cuffs, let PC or Clan own ports and rule regions and dominate resources. Allow Civil War to happen between Nation clans. Think about EvE Low-Sec if you like. The Pirate or Privateer will fit beautifully within this environment. [ELITE] would have a need to hire them from time to time.

Non-aggression pacts or Nation Alliances hamstrings the game. Rip the lid off and see what Naval Action really is about and the potential it can achieve.

 

Norfolk nChance

(Dark Carebear)

Edited June 2, 2017 by Norfolk nChance

[Grundgemunkey]

 

those suggestions wil mean everyone will turn pirate ...using smuggler flag or letter of marque you have access to every port on the map can buy and sell everywhere ... plus through raiding you get your sol and port battle fun ... why wouldnt you want all that in game ....

pirates did not go out and seek battles against  warships ...they were commerce raiders  .. they didnt sail around in fleets ..maybe 1 or 2 ships .. they didnt have SOL

been a pirate in game shouldnt be a an easy option ... it should be the hardest

if you want to sail in a fleet of SOL and partake in RVR you should join a nation ..if you want to be a commerce raider be a pirate

 

 

[Norfolk nChance]

5 minutes ago, Grundgemunkey said:

been a pirate in game shouldnt be a an easy option ... it should be the hardest

This you are absolutely right. However Opening up the game in my point. Not allowing long term ownership of taken ports. The Pirate needs something to OFFSET it against all other nations. King of the low end 5th 6th rates as you state commerce raiders as such. They need a buff over all other Nations.

[Grundgemunkey]

1 minute ago, Norfolk nChance said:

This you are absolutely right. However Opening up the game in my point. Not allowing long term ownership of taken ports. The Pirate needs something to OFFSET it against all other nations. King of the low end 5th 6th rates as you state commerce raiders as such. They need a buff over all other Nations.

i wouldnt be adverse to that ... would say 5th rate been highest ship the can sail ... but as pirates modified their ships ..they should be allowed combinations that are not allowed on nations ships .. so you can equip a suprise with any cannon as long as it doesnt exceed a max cannon weight or over crew a ship by 50% so a suprise could board an indiaman with near to equal crew ...

[Sir Lancelot Holland]

 

1 minute ago, Norfolk nChance said:

This you are absolutely right. However Opening up the game in my point. Not allowing long term ownership of taken ports. The Pirate needs something to OFFSET it against all other nations. King of the low end 5th 6th rates as you state commerce raiders as such. They need a buff over all other Nations.

By buff do you mean to reflect the fact that for the most part Pirates were previously either skilled Merchant Captains or even former Naval Officers already highly trained by their Admiralties?  If so then by all means do so, Many Pirates were known to use over gunned and over crewed small ships, many were capable of fighting small warships when they had to, often they chose not to unless it was forced upon them. I can see no valid reason why that should not be reflected in game.

 

 

[Norfolk nChance]

Re-Read [Koltes] OP, at each point it ends with the pirate giving up or losing something. I’m not a pirate or not in the same league as [Koltes] as a player, but I understand the Pirate plays a key part to how NA works.

We need to stop thinking in terms of Nation, but as a State. It needs key features that only that state has. The “Smuggler Tag” is perfect, for indeed you are being a privateer. Delivery war supplies to a port I want to take… I will need to hire a privateer to deliver them war supplies in a Trader Brig into said port.

The Buff to show the skills of the private still will need training. What Grundgemonkey or others have said are not opposed to Buffs and agree something is needed.

The SoL ownership issue seems a sticking point still with most. From Lord Vicious’s lovely new ship I can see why players are opposed. I can’t see an offset here at the moment.

 

[Koltes]

38 minutes ago, Grundgemunkey said:

 

those suggestions wil mean everyone will turn pirate ...using smuggler flag or letter of marque you have access to every port on the map can buy and sell everywhere ... plus through raiding you get your sol and port battle fun ... why wouldnt you want all that in game ....

pirates did not go out and seek battles against  warships ...they were commerce raiders  .. they didnt sail around in fleets ..maybe 1 or 2 ships .. they didnt have SOL

been a pirate in game shouldnt be a an easy option ... it should be the hardest

if you want to sail in a fleet of SOL and partake in RVR you should join a nation ..if you want to be a commerce raider be a pirate

 

 

I don't care what they were historically. This game have already broke so many rules and historical facts that this can no longer serve a point.
We want to make this game fun for ALL audience. This is how pirates would love to roll.

As for "those suggestions wil mean everyone will turn pirate" this is not true. Don't forget pirates are open targets for everyone.
Also I haven't even started on nation mechanics. There is so many options for nations to explore.
- Bounty hunting (pinpoint targets location);
- Merchant profession (with ability to trader distantly and create player delivery missions);
- Specialized crafter professions;
- Owning and growing regions as clans;
- Coastal defence fleet profession;

....you need to stop me now lol. I dont want to deviate from the OP, which is about pirates, not nations. 

[Captain Lust]

Still waiting on that rattlesnake + rattlesnake heavy + niagara as pirate only ships while all SOLs are national only ships. This would balance things out quite a bit, making all shallow ports easier to take for pirates with their small but strong ships while leaving the majority of ports to nationals ( as it should be ). I don't think pirates should have SOLs unless they actually capture one but i also dont think pirates should be at a disadvantage without gaining any perks in return... All this "pirates should be hardmode as it is historical" and "nobody forced you to be pirate" gibberish is just useless and narrow-minded reasoning. It is a f***ing game, get over it. If you make pirates useless, why not remove it altogether? Having the pirates fight among each other is "hardmode" and disadvantage enough. No SOL permits for pirates is just the icing on the cake and begs the question if pirates should be part of the conquest game at all if they dont get the shallow ships exclusively as niche at least...

[Sir Texas Sir]

33 minutes ago, Grundgemunkey said:

i wouldnt be adverse to that ... would say 5th rate been highest ship the can sail ... but as pirates modified their ships ..they should be allowed combinations that are not allowed on nations ships .. so you can equip a suprise with any cannon as long as it doesnt exceed a max cannon weight or over crew a ship by 50% so a suprise could board an indiaman with near to equal crew ...

Take a look at the Pirate Frigate vs the Frigate.  We can maybe have them have this option.  The ship will use the same model as the normal and even look the same in game, but when a pirate puts a refit on or they can code the new ships, it gives the ship maybe higher grade guns on the upper deck or even lower, more crew and maybe some speed/turn buff, but take away structure (I think the Moral Buff has been removed from the ship but I haven't built one).  The refits will be a pirate version of the 5-7th rate ships the devs pick to make them Pirate only ships.  They would be the masters of the 5th rates and below.  Though I would say they can still sail something  above only if they capture it while an outlaw.  Than we know that any National will hunt down that pirate while he has that stolen ship.  They can only get 4th rate (the Aggy would be a good pick) if they are in Privateer status and nothing bigger.  Though on a twist this means that Nationals can't capture ships as they have to turn them in to the Admiralty as a prize not keep them.

30 minutes ago, Sir Lancelot Holland said:

 

By buff do you mean to reflect the fact that for the most part Pirates were previously either skilled Merchant Captains or even former Naval Officers already highly trained by their Admiralties?  If so then by all means do so, Many Pirates were known to use over gunned and over crewed small ships, many were capable of fighting small warships when they had to, often they chose not to unless it was forced upon them. I can see no valid reason why that should not be reflected in game.

 

 

Many very famous pirates where Naval Officers at one time.  It wasn't until there was no war they turned to piracy.  Than when a war started they would get a pardon and become Privateers or get active Naval service as an officer once more.  

5 minutes ago, Captain Lust said:

Still waiting on that rattlesnake + rattlesnake heavy + niagara as pirate only ships while all SOLs are national only ships. This would balance things out quite a bit, making all shallow ports easier to take for pirates with their small but strong ships while leaving the majority of ports to nationals ( as it should be ). I don't think pirates should have SOLs unless they actually capture one but i also dont think pirates should be at a disadvantage without gaining any perks in return... All this "pirates should be hardmode as it is historical" and "nobody forced you to be pirate" gibberish is just useless and narrow-minded reasoning. It is a f***ing game, get over it. If you make pirates useless, why not remove it altogether? Having the pirates fight among each other is "hardmode" and disadvantage enough. No SOL permits for pirates is just the icing on the cake and begs the question if pirates should be part of the conquest game at all if they dont get the shallow ships exclusively as niche at least...

You know as well as I do they other 7 nations wil never go for us having the Rattlesnake Heavy BP and they don't.  Even though Pirates should be the master of the shallows and light frigates while the other nations can be the master of the Heavy and SOL's.   Toss in the Niagara with that and it would make it so.  This would be the more simple way to balance the shop. I would say toss in the older 4th rate Ingermanland cause the Nats have the Aggy. It's no where close to being as powerful but than most pirates would have older ships wouldn't they.  Would be nice if we actually knew what this new feauters they had plan for these ships was.  Even more the ops on the patch notes yesterday that said they where going to give us 3 heavy frigates.....

Though my dream would give use the Rattlesnake Heavy and the Santa Cecilia and I'll call it even.....*GRINS*  Again the other 7 Nats would never stand for this even though they have the Aggy and 7 other SOL's.

[Grundgemunkey]

25 minutes ago, koltes said:

I don't care what they were historically. This game have already broke so many rules and historical facts that this can no longer serve a point.
We want to make this game fun for ALL audience. This is how pirates would love to roll.

As for "those suggestions wil mean everyone will turn pirate" this is not true. Don't forget pirates are open targets for everyone.
Also I haven't even started on nation mechanics. There is so many options for nations to explore.
- Bounty hunting (pinpoint targets location);
- Merchant profession (with ability to trader distantly and create player delivery missions);
- Specialized crafter professions;
- Owning and growing regions as clans;
- Coastal defence fleet profession;

....you need to stop me now lol. I dont want to deviate from the OP, which is about pirates, not nations. 

you can carry on .... but lets say the devs implement your original post ..i will be leaving my nation and joining Pirates i would expect many others to do same

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

What would be the dark side of smuggling other than being open to attack ? ( open to attack being inherent to the flag choice and not to smuggler characteristic ).

What would be the difference of Smuggler with or without a Letter of Marque ?

 

[Koltes]

13 minutes ago, The Red Duke said:

What would be the dark side of smuggling other than being open to attack ?
Outlaws are open for attack anyway. This is not the "dark side" of a smuggler.
You need to think of Smuggler, Privateer and Pirate as "professions" or.. well as a state. While you are one, you cant be the other. Thus, a smuggler becomes pirate's trader profession. This is a disguise mode so you must act the same. Look like a trader.
Smuggler tag can only be turned on in port, but you can't leave port on a navy ship while being smuggler else your disguise wont work. This means if you are smuggler then you are smuggler all the way with all the risks of losing the ship and the goods. Neither you can go into battles and change ships. Taking command of a navy ship in the battle turns smuggler tag off and it can only be turned back on in the port again while docked. Without teleport this becomes the dark side.


What would be the difference of Smuggler with or without a Letter of Marque?
You cant be a smuggler while being Privateer. You do one profession or the other. Being Privateer means you are a nation player and live by nation's player means until your contract is expired or you have cancelled it.

 

 

[Sir Lancelot Holland]

The Royal Navy were well known for boarding and sinking smugglers including British flagged vessels, it is even today part of their function (they generally just board these days, My Lords of the Admiralty would throw a fit if they sunk a British flagged smuggler, though they may less than sympathetic to foreign flagged vessels!) However the production of a Letter of Marque would grant immunity from seizure of goods and prosecution. Generally holders of a Letter of Marque would heave to and allow boarding rather than risk damage or loss of cargo but only by ships of the nation that issued the letter.

[Koltes]

6 minutes ago, Sir Lancelot Holland said:

The Royal Navy were well known for boarding and sinking smugglers including British flagged vessels, it is even today part of their function (they generally just board these days, My Lords of the Admiralty would throw a fit if they sunk a British flagged smuggler, though they may less than sympathetic to foreign flagged vessels!) However the production of a Letter of Marque would grant immunity from seizure of goods and prosecution. Generally holders of a Letter of Marque would heave to and allow boarding rather than risk damage or loss of cargo but only by ships of the nation that issued the letter.

The OP does not contradict with this at all

[OneEyedSnake]

7 hours ago, Norfolk nChance said:

[OneEyeSnake]

 

Not to detract from [Koltes] OP, the idea for the Pirate faction was to be a catalyst to “stir up trouble”. For me I completely disagree with the “Lite” Sandbox model we are currently working with. The NPC Nation overlay is what’s strangling the game. And killing the Pirate nation.

Take off the hand-cuffs, let PC or Clan own ports and rule regions and dominate resources. Allow Civil War to happen between Nation clans. Think about EvE Low-Sec if you like. The Pirate or Privateer will fit beautifully within this environment. [ELITE] would have a need to hire them from time to time.

Non-aggression pacts or Nation Alliances hamstrings the game. Rip the lid off and see what Naval Action really is about and the potential it can achieve.

 

Norfolk nChance

(Dark Carebear)

I like that idea, but you seem to have only played large nations. at that point until the game population came up there would be no point in have Dutch, Spanish or Swedes or arguably even the Danes in global server. Our whole nation is a quarter of the size of most GB and US clans, which kind of ruins it for these nations. 

Not going to lie, i get tired of everyone complaining about the current state of the game without trying other smaller nations and truly understand a rough start, no coal, no gold or silver, none within 30 minutes sail, was 2 hours, thank god that was fixed, gold and silver 3 hours away at minimal, but some super sized nation takes your only option of it away and tells you they will give it to you, if you buy it from them. k wtf. that isnt "giving." But anyways, that aside. Like I always say, the game needs to be based around the current population, I love your idea Norfolk, and I have suggested the same, back when the game was 1k+ players on PVP2, but as of right now, I fear it would only frustrate a good portion of players enough to quit. Or they will all just go GB or Pirate, and youll only have 2 nations anyways. 

[Norfolk nChance]

43 minutes ago, OneEyedSnake said:

I like that idea, but you seem to have only played large nations. at that point until the game population came up there would be no point in have Dutch, Spanish or Swedes or arguably even the Danes in global server. Our whole nation is a quarter of the size of most GB and US clans, which kind of ruins it for these nations. 

Not going to lie, i get tired of everyone complaining about the current state of the game without trying other smaller nations and truly understand a rough start, no coal, no gold or silver, none within 30 minutes sail, was 2 hours, thank god that was fixed, gold and silver 3 hours away at minimal, but some super sized nation takes your only option of it away and tells you they will give it to you, if you buy it from them. k wtf. that isnt "giving." But anyways, that aside. Like I always say, the game needs to be based around the current population, I love your idea Norfolk, and I have suggested the same, back when the game was 1k+ players on PVP2, but as of right now, I fear it would only frustrate a good portion of players enough to quit. Or they will all just go GB or Pirate, and youll only have 2 nations anyways. 

[OneEyedSnake]  

That's a fair point. Only GB Nation, my ALT is French but not heavy involved. EvE Online I played for many years as a lone builder and group with friends when needed. This all in low sec. The Large Corps (clans) 4 maybe 5 do dominate. But dear I say its all part of the process. I still was able to build capital ships and carved out my world. This I could see wouldn't be well received by players... 

However the large corps still sold products to you it was all part of the process. You learned to negotiate. However right now I can see many players unwilling to even try it out.  

Back to the drawing board I guess