Motivation to PvP

[Liq]

I have mentionned this before a few times in other threads, but thought this deserves one for itself

Currently, the main motivation to PvP is 1) having fun ofc but at the same time 2) getting pvp marks for sinking ships, because if you want to craft a decent ship, you will sooner or later have to get them. (you could buy them from market, but from my experience people are not being reasonable when it comes to giving them a price lol)

So, if you want to get yourself a Connie built. That's 15 pvp marks for the permit. The quickest way to get those would be to sink lower rated ships where you knew you were going to win anyway from the start. It's effective to obtain the marks, but is it fun?

Before the patch I wouldn't even have considered attacking lower rated ships than my Surprise as an example (except traders). Why? Such a battle is not fun at all, where is the challenge? Just wasting time, you wouldn't get any decent reward out of it anyway

But now, the way it is, I'm often tempted to attack 6th rates etc. in my surprise. Not because I WANT to fight them but because I want the pvp marks for doing so. (I still don't attack them btw.)

PvP has become a grind, which promotes taking on newer players in lower rated ships which don't have a chance of winning at all. I doubt this is intended as it is not healthy for the playerbase at all.

I think this issue has to be adressed ASAP. I was thinking of a feature where the weaker ship could already "surrender" when being targeted without getting pulled in battle; saving his ship but also giving the attacker some rewards. But I have not yet figured out on how to avoid exploits with such a system.

What do you guys think? I'm really interested in any PoV possible as I think this is a major problem.

[Sven Silberbart]

Disagree. You are right if u say equal fights are interesting but remember: This is not "WOT" and not "NA Arena". In my opinion every Open World Game have many unequal fights. There are Zergs, Lone Wolfs, Squadrons, Lone Trader or Trading escorts. And I really dont want to come to a game where the most battles are equal. This would throw away the danger of an open world game i really want to keep. If I sail out and i am alone in my little ship, I want to fear a bigger group. I want the game to force me to keep my eyes open and always scan the horizon. And yes: It is also a challange to me to escape from a bigger group. Dont make the game something like: "Hey, i am in a surprise and the most danger is that another lonely 5th is attacking me, coz no bigger one can do that and i cant be outnumbered"

Edited June 1, 2017 by Sven Silberbart

[Liq]

1 minute ago, Sven Silberbart said:

"Hey, i am in a surprise and the most danger is that another 5th is attacking me, coz bigger one can't"

Well technically bigger ships indeed can't take a surprise, if the surp knows what he does. Nothing will catch a surp beam reach, especially with its 4 stern chasers

I surely will be checking NA Arena once it hits, whenever that will be

But until then I will try to have as much fun as possible in the sandboxversion

[Cmdr RideZ]

16 minutes ago, Sven Silberbart said:

Disagree. You are right if u say equal fights are interesting but remember: This is not "WOT" and not "NA Arena"....

Battles do not have to be even, but do not see anything bad if rewards from raping new guys would be less than from serious battles.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

4 minutes ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

Battles do not have to be even, but do not see anything bad if rewards from raping new guys would be less than from serious battles.

Rewards based off BR/numbers curve  present at the end of battle ?? sure thing, supported 100%.

 

 

[Liq]

10 minutes ago, The Red Duke said:

Rewards based off BR/numbers curve  present at the end of battle ?? sure thing, supported 100%.

 

 

good one

So basically if you attacked something half the BR, you would barely get any marks

If you attack two guys on your own, you get more than regular

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Just now, Liquicity said:

good one

So basically if you attacked something half the BR, you would barely get any marks

If you attack two guys on your own, you get more than regular

If reinforcements pour in then the added security balances the possible rewards.

Summing, gives up rewards in exchange for safety.

[akd]

2 hours ago, Liquicity said:

I have mentionned this before a few times in other threads, but thought this deserves one for itself

Currently, the main motivation to PvP is 1) having fun ofc but at the same time 2) getting pvp marks for sinking ships, because if you want to craft a decent ship, you will sooner or later have to get them. (you could buy them from market, but from my experience people are not being reasonable when it comes to giving them a price lol)

So, if you want to get yourself a Connie built. That's 15 pvp marks for the permit. The quickest way to get those would be to sink lower rated ships where you knew you were going to win anyway from the start. It's effective to obtain the marks, but is it fun?

Before the patch I wouldn't even have considered attacking lower rated ships than my Surprise as an example (except traders). Why? Such a battle is not fun at all, where is the challenge? Just wasting time, you wouldn't get any decent reward out of it anyway

But now, the way it is, I'm often tempted to attack 6th rates etc. in my surprise. Not because I WANT to fight them but because I want the pvp marks for doing so. (I still don't attack them btw.)

PvP has become a grind, which promotes taking on newer players in lower rated ships which don't have a chance of winning at all. I doubt this is intended as it is not healthy for the playerbase at all.

I think this issue has to be adressed ASAP. I was thinking of a feature where the weaker ship could already "surrender" when being targeted without getting pulled in battle; saving his ship but also giving the attacker some rewards. But I have not yet figured out on how to avoid exploits with such a system.

What do you guys think? I'm really interested in any PoV possible as I think this is a major problem.

Simply reduce PvP mark reward in proportion to BR imbalance.  However, it is dangerous to accelerate rewards on the other side because it is prone to abuse.

I don't know about instant surrender, but I do think there should be a way to take a player ship, loot it and leave the ship to the player, but that is separate from the marks issue.

Edited June 1, 2017 by akd

[Liq]

I like that suggestion but for that to work, cutters BR has to get changed to 0

Can think of too many exploits otherwise

[Vllad]

 

Their is nothing wrong with they system the way it is now. 

 

This is an RvR game not just an open world PVP game. You should sink all levels of ships since the size of the ship has no relationship to the size of the captain. Their are too many valid tactics for small ships to be used to harm your Realm. 

i.e., what if you let my Privateer live since you felt bad for me then I go sink 3 or your nations traders brigs and take all their cargo?

If you feel bad for me because I am in a smaller ship I am going to take advantage of that to harm your realm. Fights in this game aren't supposed to be equal otherwise it wouldn't be a very good RvR game. 

I don't think an instant surrender button is required. Sometimes the lesser ship wins and gets away and if you feel it is hopeless run up and board or stand next to your capture. Giving people a reason to insta-quit only creates lazy play, bad players and bad RvR. For every crew, repair patch or rum you make the enemy spend impacts that realms ability to fight another realm. You should make every player expend as much as he can to kill you even if the kill is assured. Putting things in that eliminate that will make NA a bad RvR game. 

 

This game is as much about resource fighting as it is ship fighting. For an RvR game to be a quality game the RvR has to be on multiple levels, ship kills, resource control and expenditure, being able to create regional influence etc.

 

To put it in more gaming terms. Man up, crush your foe, take your beatings and try to compete for your Realm. Every small thing contributes.   

 

 

 

 

 

[Liq]

You seem to be looking at the game to be a RvR game and ONLY that

When in reality you can do so much more

IMO the whole RvR before the patch was  giant kindergarden. We will see how it developps now after the wipe, but I'm not expecting it to make giant changes (why would it?)

[Vllad]

5 minutes ago, Liquicity said:

You seem to be looking at the game to be a RvR game and ONLY that

When in reality you can do so much more

IMO the whole RvR before the patch was  giant kindergarden. We will see how it developps now after the wipe, but I'm not expecting it to make giant changes (why would it?)

 

You are correct. I am looking at it as an RvR game because that is what Naval Action is. That is the primary feature of the game. Anything that takes away from the RvR makes the game worse not better. That is why it has evolved to what it is today. Any player that tries to think of NA as anything other than that is bound to be disappointed. 

 

I am simply saying that once you accept NA as an RvR game and play it as such it is much more satisfying then trying to turn it into something it is not. 

i.e., a player sitting in a Warhammer or WoW battle grounds complaining that they won't let him complete his crafting is robbing himself and others of the enjoyment of the actual battle grounds itself.  

Ultimately NA will be better when it takes what it does well and improves upon it. Not try to be something it isn't. 

 

[Sven Silberbart]

I am with Vllad. For me this is am RvR Game. He described it very good in his example with the Privateer. Players in NA are more like soldiers in a war than gladiators in an arena. I belive, exactly this two different types of players are the reason why Game Labs started to make another game (NA Legends). In the past the same problem was discussed. I dont remember a solution. I think there is no way to bring both types of players into this Game and everyone is happy.

[Benass]

can the one buy few accounts?

create few characters on different nations,

move them somewhere quiet and make those characters kill each other  every hour for a few days. ?   Hmm thinking about it. i have 3 laptops that i don't use. 

I could make my own fleet

 

Sure that would make enough pvp badges. 

[Kaos]

7 hours ago, Vllad said:

You are correct. I am looking at it as an RvR game because that is what Naval Action is. That is the primary feature of the game. Anything that takes away from the RvR makes the game worse not better. That is why it has evolved to what it is today. Any player that tries to think of NA as anything other than that is bound to be disappointed.

Hello la-la land, please continue explaining how NA is mainly RvR game when admin pretty much confirmed that only miniscule percentage of total population after EA took part in it or even went near a PB. It's entertaining to read but you don't have to.

7 hours ago, Vllad said:

 

 

Ultimately NA will be better when it takes what it does well and improves upon it. Not try to be something it isn't. 

 

I think they finally realized it too, hence making a seperate game that revolves around their greatest achievement so far (hint: combat).

15 minutes ago, Benass said:

can the one buy few accounts?

create few characters on different nations,

move them somewhere quiet and make those characters kill each other  every hour for a few days. ?   Hmm thinking about it. i have 3 laptops that i don't use. 

I could make my own fleet

 

Sure that would make enough pvp badges. 

Well these questions were asked already like a year ago before pvp marks was even a topic on an idea level but the development handwriting seems to be ''shoot first - ask questions later''.

[Sureshot]

Yeah I'm glad arena is coming too. The combat is the backbone of this game and it is truly an awesome combat system. I am definitely looking forward to arena version that is based around skill, tactics and the awesome combat system.

Edited June 9, 2017 by SeaHyena

[ltdan83]

The problem is that the devs has listened to the small, vocal minority and basically tailored the game to them.  There are a lot of players that don't have 8+ hours a day to grind.  Then when they lose a ship it is devastating.  The economy won't work if you lose more players and the hardcore pvp'ers will have less targets in OW to hunt.  Admin has made comparisons to WOW in a couple threads.  The difference between this and WOW is vast.  In wow I can get on for an hour a night and feel like I'm getting something accomplished.  If I can only log on to NA for an hour I don't bother.  The fact that a majority of players never reached captain should be a large, bold, flashing sign that something is driving people away.  Instead of making things easier to keep players involved to move to the opposite extreme.  Your time:fun ratio is too low at the moment.

[Celtiberofrog]

Reduce CM importance, increase PVP Marks earning, make easier progress & more active server:

1) Pensions for holding a region could be limited to 10 or 15 days max.

2) Change PB system, cancel the friendly port fliping possibility:

==> PB rewarded with PVP Marks + CM (every region = 1 CM)

==> PB rewards (PVP Marks) depend on damage level inflicted by fleets in PB's, even with fleet extra rewards (+CM) when high level damages (ex: damages = fleet kills ratio / BR ratio), forts & towers kills do not generate rewards or points to attacker side.

==> Defenders fleet can earn PVP Marks when loosing PB depending to same ratios results, forts & towers inflicted damages included.

==> Empty port battles do not generate CM to winners, only region ownership. 

3) Cancel hostility system, re-implement flag system, limited to 2 flags per nation per day (Flag cost in gold or CM or war supplies, second flag much more expensive). Flags available only for adjacent foreign regions. Capturing a flag is rewarded.

4) Re-implement Alliance system with 1 ally max for 15 days max followed by 15 days cooldown with same nation.

5) Crafting should be cheaper in CM & PVP Marks, as well as materials easier to collect (ex: re-implement free towns deliveries), so smaller clan have better chance to build ships.

6) Re-implement Teleport to Capital with same cooldown