Player VS Balance

[JonnyH13]

This is probably going to ignite a fire.  Please be civil when discussing this.

When it comes games, we all know that they are inherently unbalanced, sometimes to an excessive degree, and that makes the game far more difficult than it was intended.  At the same time we need to acknowledge that the players themselves need to learn how to learn new tactics and execute working strategies.  This presents a problem: where should be draw the line where we determine which must change.  Should the game conform to the players, or the players learn how to play the game?  

Before you post, keep in mind the following:

• Humans resist change.
• We cannot shape our true (natural) reality and must play by its rules.
• Some systems are inherently or even intended to be unbalanced.
• What is skill?  What are exploits?  What is the line between both?
• Humans wish to change the world to their liking.
• Games have limits.  Should we push those limits, both in gameplay and in development?
• What is balance?  Fairness?  An illusion?  A way to escape reality?
• Min-Max, skill or exploit?
• Should we play games to have fun?  Or should we play games to improve ourselves?
• What is the point of playing games?  A distraction?  Or a learning experience?

[Grundgemunkey]

2 hours ago, JonnyH13 said:

This is probably going to ignite a fire.  Please be civil when discussing this.

When it comes games, we all know that they are inherently unbalanced, sometimes to an excessive degree, and that makes the game far more difficult than it was intended.  At the same time we need to acknowledge that the players themselves need to learn how to learn new tactics and execute working strategies.  This presents a problem: where should be draw the line where we determine which must change.  Should the game conform to the players, or the players learn how to play the game?  

Before you post, keep in mind the following:

• Humans resist change.
• We cannot shape our true (natural) reality and must play by its rules.
• Some systems are inherently or even intended to be unbalanced.
• What is skill?  What are exploits?  What is the line between both?
• Humans wish to change the world to their liking.
• Games have limits.  Should we push those limits, both in gameplay and in development?
• What is balance?  Fairness?  An illusion?  A way to escape reality?
• Min-Max, skill or exploit?
• Should we play games to have fun?  Or should we play games to improve ourselves?
• What is the point of playing games?  A distraction?  Or a learning experience?

interesting points

• Humans resist change.... this is untrue otherwise we would be still sat in a cave it is usually said by people that are implementing change that they want and wil be unpopular to everyone else ..usually the person wanting  the change isnt able to demonstrate the benefits of the change
• We cannot shape our true (natural) reality and must play by its rules.  too deep a subject
• Some systems are inherently or even intended to be unbalanced.  no problem with that
• What is skill?  What are exploits?  What is the line between both?  im not sure both are even linked a skill is something that has to be learned and developed some wil find it easier than others and have a natural aptitude ... an exploiit is identifying a weakness or shortcut ...the ability to find an exploit may be a skill
• Humans wish to change the world to their liking.  yes
• Games have limits.  Should we push those limits, both in gameplay and in development?  i think so but not to the detrement of the game most things that push to the limits are experimental and become obsolete ..concorde is good example they pushed to the limit in the 70s a passenger aircraft that travelled at the speed of sound ..very few people used it in % terms of air travellers ... we havent built a replacement
• What is balance?  Fairness?  An illusion?  A way to escape reality?  balance is what keeps you interested and coming back for more ... its the if i try one more time i might do it ,,, gamers become uninterested when something is uinblanced ie  too easy or too hard ..those levels are different for everyone
• Min-Max, skill or exploit?  ??
• Should we play games to have fun?  Or should we play games to improve ourselves?  im not sure there are many games around that improve us ..if you take naval action it seems to bring out the worst in most
• What is the point of playing games?  A distraction?  Or a learning experience?  its entertaintment people very rarely pay for something that doesnt entertain or please them ... some games aimed at lower age groups may be educational .. but not many aimed at adults ..you may find a games subject interesting enough to want to explore the subject matter further .and learn more ...but  i dont think there are many games that are making money that are  intentionally educational ...

 

im not sure of why you posted this but some interesting questions

The post wipe changes will either improve the game or they  will destroy it ..... some people will like it some wont ....

if most people dont like it ..they wont play it .. end of game .. if most do it will be good

 

 

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Some players like games of luck.

Majority of players of non-luck-games like "puzzle" games, where dominant strategies win ( human feeling of...I know something the other don't ). Once the game changes and completely removes any type of puzzle from the equation there is a lot of resistance. Their fun graphics are populated with high peaks, as they find new puzzles to break. 

Many other players dislike the "puzzle" games. They search for other types of games.