Teleportation - a few thoughts

[Serk]

1 hour ago, Macjimm said:

Sailing in one location.  Genius.

I've never understood why there are not combat areas.  Fighting is huge priortity.  Many players hate sailing.  Lots of people are bored with the travel time.

Why not have combat areas on the map where rewards are high for PvP.  Players could expect to find lots of PvP opponents in these areas and wouldn't have to teleport anywhere.  They could could just hang out near the battle areas and engage in combat lots.

 

I had hoped this was the whole idea of the hostility concept to flip a region. With the disappearance of PVE mission, we might actually get in there. Players will flock to the targeted area to either conquer or defend it. 

We just need for it to be easily marked on the in game map. Higher rewards like conquest marks would be a great incentitive to patrol those waters. 

Edited May 3, 2017 by Serk

[Macjimm]

8 hours ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

We could have a PvE mission generator at port.  They kinda break the game for those who want OW experience.  Sure my example was a bit extreme, but PvP circle has similar effect in my opinion.

So the warriors can fight when ever they want, as much as they want, without waiting.   They can use the combat area in the "Open World Long Sails with Chasing and Fleeing" game or the "Naval ACTION E-sport Arena" game.   Others have the rest of the "Open World Long Sails with Chasing and Fleeing" game without teleports to enjoy the age of sail.  PvP'rs and  PvE'rs are sailing around in 1st rates.

How is this breaking the game for you  those who want OW experience? 

Edited May 4, 2017 by Macjimm

[Cmdr RideZ]

5 hours ago, Macjimm said:

How is this breaking the game for you  those who want OW experience? 

They could use those same ships in the same game with OW players.

But we can agree to disagree here.

[Macjimm]

1 hour ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

They could use those same ships in the same game with OW players.

But we can agree to disagree here.

I'm not disagreeing.  Just asking a question.  It may sound obtuse but how are PvP'rs sailing these ships wrecking  the game?  Surely the PvEr's can sail whatever they choose without ruining the game for those who want an open world long distance sailing chasing and fleeing experience?

You likely have a good point, just trying to understand it.   I've read so much about people itching for ways to increase the chances to get into PvP fights.  Creating gamey mechanics that force everyone into fights all the time only helps PvPr's looking for fights, often, and without having to wait.   Having areas on the map where combat provides greater rewards and there are higher concentrations of combatants has always seemed like a no brainer,  because it would allow for easier access to combat while providing a choice of other activities on the rest of the map.   It would be nice if there was variation.  Apparantly the map seems too big for some players who seek action.  The map is too small for those who like sailing.

I see the combat areas as a win win without needing teleportation.  But Naval Action is the first MMO I've played other than Elite Dangerous.  ED is almost completely different from this game and any comparisons would be futile.

These threads are facinating to read.  They provide an excellent opportunity to learn about the passionate culture of gaming.

Respectfully.

[Cmdr RideZ]

8 minutes ago, Macjimm said:

I'm not disagreeing.  Just asking a question...

You grind PvE missions -> You get results fast, and 0 risk.

You grind PvP missions -> You get results fast, but sure there are risks.

OW PvP -> You get results way slower, and there are risks.  There could be even a day that you do not get anything.

Then people from these "other" game modes, in which they get results fast, play with people who have to work harder to get the same results.  OW players probably would not like that.

[Mrdoomed]

23 hours ago, Macjimm said:

Sailing in one location.  Genius.

I've never understood why there are not combat areas.  Fighting is huge priortity.  Many players hate sailing.  Lots of people are bored with the travel time.

Why not have combat areas on the map where rewards are high for PvP.  Players could expect to find lots of PvP opponents in these areas and wouldn't have to teleport anywhere.  They could could just hang out near the battle areas and engage in combat lots.

People who hate sailing playing a sailing game. You unintentionally just named the entire problem with this game now.

The devs made a ow sailing game for a niche crowd then the arena clicker kids all showed up to go pew pew pew and demand a new game. The devs decided to try and please them. Now game is dead. That is pretty much the story of NA.

Imho if you are so attention deficit disorder that you cant sit still longenough to sail somewhere or to develop your faction enough that nature "battle zones or areas" occur then you dont deserve to play this game.

Luckily im not in charge.

[Mrdoomed]

15 hours ago, Macjimm said:

So the warriors can fight when ever they want, as much as they want, without waiting.   They can use the combat area in the "Open World Long Sails with Chasing and Fleeing" game or the "Naval ACTION E-sport Arena" game.   Others have the rest of the "Open World Long Sails with Chasing and Fleeing" game without teleports to enjoy the age of sail.  PvP'rs and  PvE'rs are sailing around in 1st rates.

How is this breaking the game for you  those who want OW experience? 

We have or had the option for your so called " warriors" to battle all day in small or large battles. Your " warriors" was of course still to chicken shit to do it . You are trying to solve a problem that really doesnt exist . These so called " warriors" will never be apeased EVER.

[Macjimm]

38 minutes ago, Mrdoomed said:

if ...you cant sit still long enough to sail somewhere or to develop your faction enough that nature "battle zones or areas" occur then you don't deserve to play this game.

Would it matter it there was a  couple areas of the map where players were enjoying constant PvP? Players who are not interested could just avoid those areas and enjoy the "Open World Age of Sail Experience with Long Sails Chasing and Fleeing" experience.   Could players that want to sail not just ignore the "battle zones" and the players using them.  Without teleportation the players near the battle zones who hate sailing would not much impact on the rest of the playerbase.  Or would they?

9 hours ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

You grind PvE missions -> You get results fast, and 0 risk.

You grind PvP missions -> You get results fast, but sure there are risks.

OW PvP -> You get results way slower, and there are risks.  There could be even a day that you do not get anything.

Then people from these "other" game modes, in which they get results fast, play with people who have to work harder to get the same results.  OW players probably would not like that.

Thanks Cmdr,

that helps shed a little light.  But digging a bit deeper ... suppose other players grind away and get lots of gold, XP and big ships.  Why do the OW players who have not used the battle circle not like that?  Is it from a sense of fairness?  Some sort of unwritten code that all wealth should be obtained from the "Open World Long Sails with Fleeing and Chases"  style mechanics?  

Or is that the players with lots of gold, XP and big ships unbalance the gameplay?  And if so how?  Once the players have the gold, XP and big ships does the method that they obtain it really affect other player's gameplay.  Afterall it's not like they can magically teleport here and there after they acquire the wealth.  They still would have to sail to influence the rest of the map. 

Respectfully submitted.

 

[Mrdoomed]

57 minutes ago, Macjimm said:

Would it matter it there was a  couple areas of the map where players were enjoying constant PvP? Players who are not interested could just avoid those areas and enjoy the "Open World Age of Sail Experience with Long Sails Chasing and Fleeing" experience.   Could players that want to sail not just ignore the "battle zones" and the players using them.  Without teleportation the players near the battle zones who hate sailing would not much impact on the rest of the playerbase.  Or would they?

Thanks Cmdr,

that helps shed a little light.  But digging a bit deeper ... suppose other players grind away and get lots of gold, XP and big ships.  Why do the OW players who have not used the battle circle not like that?  Is it from a sense of fairness?  Some sort of unwritten code that all wealth should be obtained from the "Open World Long Sails with Fleeing and Chases"  style mechanics?  

Or is that the players with lots of gold, XP and big ships unbalance the gameplay?  And if so how?  Once the players have the gold, XP and big ships does the method that they obtain it really affect other player's gameplay.  Afterall it's not like they can magically teleport here and there after they acquire the wealth.  They still would have to sail to influence the rest of the map. 

Respectfully submitted.

 

Yes, yes it matters. 

Im sure you want reasons and im not gonna waste time listing all if them because you or these " warriors" dont acually care, they just want to complain.

A few just to wet the whistle.  

1 nothing stops or ever stopped your " warriors" from meeting and fighting in tje first place they just wont do it.

2 we had small and large battles tje warriors cried they where not fair and would t do them

3 it will take time away from the game to completely redo it to apese 3 cry babies who say they want instant battles

4 they already said that sea trials are comming back but the " warriors " still bitch its nt fair. 

I could literally go on for hours but i think you see the underlying issue already. 

Dont worry about your " whu we need it" reply because its alreasy settle. 

[admin]

17 hours ago, Mrdoomed said:

The devs made a ow sailing game for a niche crowd then the arena clicker kids all showed up to go pew pew pew and demand a new game. The devs decided to try and please them. Now game is dead. That is pretty much the story of NA.

 

Actually it was in reverse.

We started this project as an arena World of tanks style game.
Once we tested the combat and people loved it we started to add ships to finish the game and asked the community what we should do next.
The majority requested the open world.

The first prototype had no cities at all - and wowed the users. I still remember the statements from players like @maturin saying "wow - you cannot see another side of lake maracaibo". And all the other testers were extremely happy too. 
This made us believe that we should temporarily abandon the arena game and focus on the MMO. We were too optimistic about the amount of work required to make all parts of the mmo work well (crafting, fighting, economy, balance). 
During the development we were trying to combine arena with the OW game and this was a main mistake.

This mistake is fixed now. Arena game is being developed. OW is getting all arena game elements removed. 
Players who want fast action should not try to eat the cactus and just wait for the arena game. Open world MMO no longer wants or tries to satisfy their needs in the Caribbean. Arena game will be a killer app for them solving ALL their problems.
 

So you are incorrect about your statement. Combat only (arena) game was first.

 

ps the long term plans are to have several products for the age of sail fans. easy access combat only game, multiplayer world, single player story based game with no instances, and eventually walking on deck going down to ship holds or captains quarters we get more competence. Imagine smoking a pipe on a balcony of your third rate in battle. 

Its a journey. Consider NA as a great stepping stone. Its a great game for the first attempt. 

[captain pips]

38 minutes ago, admin said:

Its a journey. Consider NA as a great stepping stone. Its a great game for the first attempt. 

it absolutly is.i was playing sid meyers "pirates" as a kid and i was waiting nearly 30 years for a modern adaption of that game and setting.we have some problems here and there and sometimes i`am complaining a bit as well,but it`s the only game,that kept me playing for so many hours.please continue and give us more of that stuff.

[Snoopy]

50 minutes ago, admin said:

[..]ps the long term plans are to have several products for the age of sail fans. easy access combat only game, multiplayer world, single player story based game with no instances, and eventually walking on deck going down to ship holds or captains quarters we get more competence. Imagine smoking a pipe on a balcony of your third rate in battle. 

Its a journey. Consider NA as a great stepping stone. Its a great game for the first attempt. 

I'm mostly with you there, but I beg of you to try and fuse these games in some form, provide some cross functionality. You only have so many players in the niche of historic sailing ships as potential buyers and making three games will fragment that audience. Players are rarely purely interested in either arena or a MMO game to the complete exclusion of the other - it's shifting with availability of time to play and mood. By all means use it to generate cash but make it more than the sum of it's parts instead of splitting 1/3.

Edited May 5, 2017 by Snoopy

[Mrdoomed]

4 hours ago, admin said:

Actually it was in reverse.

We started this project as an arena World of tanks style game.
Once we tested the combat and people loved it we started to add ships to finish the game and asked the community what we should do next.
The majority requested the open world.

The first prototype had no cities at all - and wowed the users. I still remember the statements from players like @maturin saying "wow - you cannot see another side of lake maracaibo". And all the other testers were extremely happy too. 
This made us believe that we should temporarily abandon the arena game and focus on the MMO. We were too optimistic about the amount of work required to make all parts of the mmo work well (crafting, fighting, economy, balance). 
During the development we were trying to combine arena with the OW game and this was a main mistake.

This mistake is fixed now. Arena game is being developed. OW is getting all arena game elements removed. 
Players who want fast action should not try to eat the cactus and just wait for the arena game. Open world MMO no longer wants or tries to satisfy their needs in the Caribbean. Arena game will be a killer app for them solving ALL their problems.
 

So you are incorrect about your statement. Combat only (arena) game was first.

 

ps the long term plans are to have several products for the age of sail fans. easy access combat only game, multiplayer world, single player story based game with no instances, and eventually walking on deck going down to ship holds or captains quarters we get more competence. Imagine smoking a pipe on a balcony of your third rate in battle. 

Its a journey. Consider NA as a great stepping stone. Its a great game for the first attempt. 

I was referring to the start of OW not sea trials since they where named " trials". I assumed everyone would understand that. As I understand it it sea trials was never supposed to be the finished game. Not sure if you're saying that now the arena was the intended game and ow was a gift of more. Like i said from all ive ever read since sea trials started was it was testing the combat and ship models and this would be a mmo.

I have one question then, will NO COOLDOWN teleports still be allowed to any port? Or will you be puting a timer on it again?  Thats the biggest question to me and all my friends. 

Edited May 5, 2017 by Mrdoomed

[admin]

1 minute ago, Mrdoomed said:

I have one question then, will NO COOLDOWN teleports still be allowed to any port? Or will you be puting a timer on it again?  Thats the biggest question to me and all my friends. 

We don't know yet. We are thinking of making it cost pvp or pve marks. 

 

[Mrdoomed]

6 minutes ago, admin said:

We don't know yet. We are thinking of making it cost pvp or pve marks. 

 

Marks will still support tje squads of gankers who just harvest marks . Make it timed.

[Bommel]

Or just keep the no limit/cooldown for TP.

 

[Kaos]

3 hours ago, Snoopy said:

I'm mostly with you there, but I beg of you to try and fuse these games in some form, provide some cross functionality. You only have so many players in the niche of historic sailing ships as potential buyers and making three games will fragment that audience. Players are rarely purely interested in either arena or a MMO game to the complete exclusion of the other - it's shifting with availability of time to play and mood. By all means use it to generate cash but make it more than the sum of it's parts instead of splitting 1/3.

Well he just said in his post that they tried to fuse it together and look what happened, the result was neither fish nor fowl, it was one strange hybrid not satisfying anyone in the end but the very few. Ironically he hinted that exactly this would happen (referring to cheap fish bazaar mixed with Louis Vuitton stores) before going EA but then continued to do it anyway.

During Sea trials this game really looked promising for pvp oriented players with clear intent and goal and I somehow expected ow to be also pvp focused but the whole OW experiment felt like seeing your favorite meat restaurant turn into cheap vegan cafeteria first as a tragedy, later as a comedy. The people who joined during early sea trials (before ow sandbox was theorized about let alone announced) interested in skill as opposed to class/gear/numbers-based combat are currently sitting on the sidelines observing this entertaining development process, definitely not conspiring to sabotage it like some would believe nor waste their time partaking in the big ''fusion''.

At least they are admitting their mistakes and seem to have stopped chasing this mythical holy grail utopian co-existance between different mindsets and demands guided by crowds who clearly don't mix.

About teleports analogy: I heard there's still people who play vanilla world of warcraft on private servers, willing to ''suffer going through the zones on foot or mounts'' specifically because the teleports and flying mounts they added later on to official servers as quality of life features took people and potential targets off the open map and reduced player interaction. Then again pvp there was a gimmick added to a mainly pve game as a side thingy which seemed to be the direction of NA OW too until the announcements of recent changes.

[Bommel]

6 minutes ago, Kaos said:

About teleports analogy: I heard there's still people who play vanilla world of warcraft on private servers, willing to ''suffer going through the zones on foot or mounts'' specifically because the teleports and flying mounts they added later on to official servers as quality of life features took people and potential targets off the open map and reduced player interaction. Then again pvp there was a gimmick added to a mainly pve game as a side thingy which seemed to be the direction of NA OW too until the announcements of recent changes.

Well I don´t see how teleporting your char without any "gear" is bad for the game or would affect others players, while it is officially allowed to have several accounts.

[Mrdoomed]

3 hours ago, Bommel said:

Or just keep the no limit/cooldown for TP.

 

So far that plan has taken my server from 1400 players to less than 40. If course i think that is what the bad players who need teleports to figure out how to play want so **golf clap** to yall. 

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

3 hours ago, Mrdoomed said:

Marks will still support tje squads of gankers who just harvest marks . Make it timed.

Each players yields PvP mark only every hour. "Recently killed" status.

[Bommel]

15 minutes ago, Mrdoomed said:

So far that plan has taken my server from 1400 players to less than 40. If course i think that is what the bad players who need teleports to figure out how to play want so **golf clap** to yall. 

Oh boy, I´m sorry,I didn´t know that you are "the guy" who has the insight of what exactly caused the players to leave (?your?) server.

If you are pro TP = bad player...lmao

[Mrdoomed]

2 hours ago, Bommel said:

Oh boy, I´m sorry,I didn´t know that you are "the guy" who has the insight of what exactly caused the players to leave (?your?) server.

If you are pro TP = bad player...lmao

Now you know. Try and and learn from it.