New Repair system - Demasting pointless?

[Liq]

With the upcoming changes to how repairs in battles work, you will be able to repair both your hull as well as sails/masts every 10 minutes. Doesn't this kinda make demasting pointless?
I used to go for demasting in some occasions where I was outnumbered, to take one ship out of the combat as early as possible and to make the battle fightable for me. But now it looks like that won't be a thing anymore, since there is no limits to sail repairs anymore.

IMO Demasting should be made a little bit harder but in return don't allow sail repairs to also repair masts.

On the testbed, I repaired my sails from 5% to 35% using 1 repair. Can do that every 10 minutes. Might need some balancing

Opinions?

Edited April 20, 2017 by Liquicity

[CatSwift]

repairs on test bed in general seem much less than repairs on live. have you by chance try repairing a completely demasted ship to see how many masts one sail repair run actually restores?  If they don't get much back per repair, then it seems like it might not be as big an issue.

[Liq]

2 minutes ago, CatSwift said:

repairs on test bed in general seem much less than repairs on live. have you by chance try repairing a completely demasted ship to see how many masts one sail repair run actually restores?  If they don't get much back per repair, then it seems like it might not be as big an issue.

Will test it now.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Thank you for the video.

What I would promote would be the extension of time needed to repair the same amount you did there but in 3x the time it takes now and leave the cooldown.

For one, engaging repairs is a decision that will cost prolonged time of crew deviated from other duties. Second, it has to be meaningful - do I repair now and risk the timer or do I wait and force the enemy to do it ?

In sum:

- Repair time three times longer ( for the same amount )

- Cooldown as it is.

[Liq]

9 minutes ago, The Red Duke said:

- Repair time three times longer ( for the same amount )

So instead of 2 minutes it'll take 6, but after another 4 min you could already repair again?

I think the cooldown timer has to be adjusted, to at least 15 min.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Increased Timer for repair duty + cooldown, that's what I meant.

[CatSwift]

What I would like to see is sail repairs "cost" more to repair masts.  For example, if you have 60% sails but all masts in tact, then having a sail repair put that back to 95% is reasonable.  However, if a sail repair needs to repair a mast, it should cost it 2x as much to do so (so for our specific example, if all masts down instead of going from 5% to 35% it would go from 5% to 17%).

[Pada]

Yes demasting will be even less valuable then it is now and as a player that rather goes for a demast than chain I really dislike it.

The 10 min timer is way to short IMO. If we increase it, it might be to long and become useless to have more than 1 repair. I'm willing to test it but for me the system we have now is the best, it works and no one seems to not like it.

[Ned Low]

38 minutes ago, Liquicity said:

So instead of 2 minutes it'll take 6, but after another 4 min you could already repair again?

I think the cooldown timer has to be adjusted, to at least 15 min.

What is 2 players are demasting you? Did you test that>?

[Cmdr RideZ]

30 minutes ago, Pada said:

Yes demasting will be even less valuable then it is now and as a player that rather goes for a demast than chain I really dislike it.

I have understood that everyone goes for a demast atm.

[Liq]

16 minutes ago, Ned Low said:

What is 2 players are demasting you? Did you test that>?

huh?

[Pada]

8 minutes ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

I have understood that everyone goes for a demast atm.

Good news, better than being chaind by a group for 60 mins. 

[Cmdr RideZ]

2 minutes ago, Pada said:

Good news, better than being chaind by a group for 60 mins. 

Lets hope zergs never understand to demast ships.  Else that 60 min chaining will turn to 6min demast.

[Pada]

1 minute ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

Lets hope zergs never understand to demast ships.  Else that 60 min chaining will turn to 6min demast.

At least they saved you some time. ^^

[Sir Texas Sir]

What mods where you using?  If your doing it with no carpenter or any of the other thigns than yah it might need tweeking, but if your running a bunch of repair perks and mods than it's going to be faster, but your takeing a hit on other things you coudl be doing like more damage.

I think it should be a good pratice when we bring things like this up to mention what our set up in game is.

 

Oh and in a battle your still a sitting duck that whole time you where repairing.  So some one could of filled you with a lot more holes or boareded you.

Edited April 20, 2017 by Sir Texas Sir

[Liq]

1 hour ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

What mods where you using?  If your doing it with no carpenter or any of the other thigns than yah it might need tweeking, but if your running a bunch of repair perks and mods than it's going to be faster, but your takeing a hit on other things you coudl be doing like more damage.

I think it should be a good pratice when we bring things like this up to mention what our set up in game is.

 

Oh and in a battle your still a sitting duck that whole time you where repairing.  So some one could of filled you with a lot more holes or boareded you.

I believe I had expert carpenter perk, not sure though.
Still seems too much.

[Sir Texas Sir]

I haven't messed with the ship knowledge one, but the Perk seems to do more than 5% to repairs as I watched a good click or two of my health go up and it was way more than 5% or even lets say 10% if the base is 5%.

[elite92]

we can simply make the cooldown starts when the repair its over instead of when u click 5 then 2.. no? in this way the actual cooldown between one repair and another will be like 12 mins but at least can be lowered by perk and upgrades-

ps: and if u put all the man on repair (lowering ur fighting potential) u can repair it quicker and make the cooldown start quicker..

Edited April 20, 2017 by elite92

[Liq]

29 minutes ago, Hodo said:

I agree with STS, the fact you are dead in the water for 90sec is pretty much the end of the fight for you.  If I wanted to board you, it would take one more broadside and board before you could even get your sails set.  

And if I wanted to keep you there I would park off your stern or bow, and fire at your masts as you repair them.   They only repair 500hp of damage.  So it wont take much to remove them again.

Yea in a 1v1 you could do that, BUT in something like a 1v2, demasting used to be viable tactics to take someone out of the game (once they lost all masts they're unable to move and do anything) so you could focus on the other one first.
Can't stay on a demasted ship's stern with dropped sails and finish it in a 1v2 or you'll get raked too.

Edited April 20, 2017 by Liquicity

[William Death]

4 hours ago, Liquicity said:

IMO Demasting should be made a little bit harder but in return don't allow sail repairs to also repair masts

x1,000,000!

I would even be fine if they made the upper masts (topmasts and topgallants) a little easier to knock off but allow you to repair those once in battle. If you knock off the lower section of the mast (make it take more time than it already does) then the mast is gone and you don't get it back. This would make partial-demastings more common but somewhat recoverable from (you can jury rig a mast once, since your ship is carrying extra topmasts most likely, but if you lose it again, you are out of luck), but still let the skilled guys focus on the bottom masts and get the whole thing in one go. With the way damage works on testbed, if the demaster is not on his game, I think he would find himself in a tough situation if he allows his enemy to get too many broadsides on him before he gets those masts down.

[Dharus]

I actually think in the video the repairs looks good.  I'm assuming the 10% for rigging expert perk as well as other bonuses?  I'm in agreement with Hodo on the situational options available.  I think we've all seen or taken off a few bowsprits too (on purpose and accident) and having the ability to fix it over time using player crafted consumables makes battles (and economy and cargo management) a little more dynamic than a "one and done" repair.  Demasting will still be important as a sort of "battle crowd control".  If you're in a close brawl, a good demast will buy you time to either isolate an enemy, allow easy positioning on the ship or allow for an escape.  So, it is still crippling in terms of time, cost, crew usage, and vulnerability but it'll lessen the more gamey mast/bowsprit snipers/rammers out there.  If a fully 100% sail ship got fully demasted to 5%, that's 30 minutes to get back to full sailing capabilities.  That's pretty huge as even 10% difference in sails can, over time, allow for isolation of enemy ships or escapes.

Edited April 20, 2017 by Dharus

[monk33y]

What does fire ships look like or do (damage) on the test server!! 

Fireships ftw

[Cmdr RideZ]

Multiple repair kits in general could be still a bad idea.

Everyone who has been shot in a bad shape, can take distance and repair their ship.  This is especially true if you have more ships than your enemy.

"Mass > Skill", gets buffed.  Ganking improved, zergs improved.

Devs are leaving fair game for that new arena game.  Still, this repair kit thing could be done differently, so that it would not "Mass > Skill".  There are probably other things as well that are indirectly affecting to this.

 

Liqus idea about 1vs2, demast one fast to be able to fight 1vs1 for a moment at least.  I do not like this either too much.  Masts are a shortcut to win 1vs2.  Positioning yourself correctly should be the key to victory.  More efficient mast sniping is, less important it is to position yourself right.

For example that idea of 250m mast sniping distance.  If you do not have the wind, but you are in 250m, it does not matter how your enemy positions herself, as you are still able to shoot her masts efficiently.  I am not saying that having the wind would be useless, just saying that would have less meaning.

Yes, I am simplifying here to make a point.

[Kilo]

On 2017-04-20 at 1:33 PM, Willis PVP2 said:

x1,000,000!

I would even be fine if they made the upper masts (topmasts and topgallants) a little easier to knock off but allow you to repair those once in battle. If you knock off the lower section of the mast (make it take more time than it already does) then the mast is gone and you don't get it back. This would make partial-demastings more common but somewhat recoverable from (you can jury rig a mast once, since your ship is carrying extra topmasts most likely, but if you lose it again, you are out of luck), but still let the skilled guys focus on the bottom masts and get the whole thing in one go. With the way damage works on testbed, if the demaster is not on his game, I think he would find himself in a tough situation if he allows his enemy to get too many broadsides on him before he gets those masts down.

I see someone has been doing lots of reading. : ) Very accurate and I agree with your thoughts if they were to be translated into action in game. A lower main/fore mast was absolutely huge and in reality a jury rig topmast took many hours of skilled men but in a game I can see one chance at a jury rig in a match and maybe a couple top-gallants if time (enemy) permitted. Good post. Making it harder for a full lower section demast would be conducive to play; making it more riskier perhaps for the demaster. Just my .02

[Neptune]

Big fan of the new repairs (old repairs from 2014-15, like old times). It makes focusing super important, if you can't focus one target properly then you will pay the price.

Also it's nice because if you get heavily damaged at the start of the fight and your enemy is stupid enough to let you get away from the battle you may be able to get back in the fight later even if you have to spend 30-40 minutes repairing. That Is one thing I like, It keeps you more engaged in the battle.

Edited April 23, 2017 by Neptune