A Different Take On Leveling Up Ships

[William Death]

While I'm not wholly convinced that a system of grinding slots open on ships is the best idea...if that is what the Devs want us to test, I'll test it. Here is what I have learned from a few hours aboard the ship Trincomalee on the testbed server and what I think should change.

Here is how it currently works on testbed:

I want to sail Trincomalee, I unlock 2 slots, then to unlock the third slot, I get a message that I need to unlock 4 slots on a Surprise. I unlock 2 on a Surprise and get a message that to unlock the third slot, I need to unlock 3 slots on a Renommee. I haven't unlocked anything on Reno yet, but it seems like it will just keep stair-stepping down to the cutter.

 

What kind of stuff is this? Because I want to sail a Trinc effectively I have to learn how to sail a Renommee? And then what? Brig?

NO! People will not do this. You can argue all day that you don't "have" to unlock all the slots. But if you want to be effective, yes you do HAVE to unlock all the slots on a ship. The current system favors those with hours and hours to grind up almost every ship in game. I don't like grinding, but as long as the grind you ask me to do is reasonable, and worth it, I'll grind.

So If you want to make every ship a grind to "yeah, I'm a Rear Admiral on this ship," then ok...I don't like it but I'll do it for every ship I sail often. But don't make me grind up my ship xp level on ALMOST EVERY ship beneath me just to unlock the slots on the one ship I might use. 

 

Here is (what I think is) a better system, lets use the 4-5th rates for demonstration:

Trincomalee is my desired ship, slots cost as follows: (these costs are quite reduced from what is on testbed to reduce the grind needed on each ship)

1: 1,000 xp

2: 2,000 xp

3: 6,000 xp

4: 10,000 xp

5: 25,000 xp

So I grind her up to 25000 xp and I have a perfect 3/5 Trinc . But wait! I want to sail a Constitution into a port battle now. Do I have to grind up a bunch of xp on it to get some slots open? I mean, I know so much about the Trinc, I can't image a Connie is too terribly different? No! You don't have to re-learn the Connie, some of your experience on the Trinc will transfer nicely, but you'll still have to sail the Connie a while to get used to her particular points . Here is how it works:

Frigates (4-5th) rate ships have an xp pool of 30,000 xp and any time you earn xp sailing ANY frigate, the pool fills some. So I gained 25k xp sailing my Trinc, that xp has gone into the pool. Here is how the pool works, each time a certain amount of xp is reached, a slot unlocks on all the frigates, whether you have sailed that particular ship or not. The pool will only unlock the first three slots:

1: 10,000 xp unlocks 1 slot on all frigates

2: 20,000 xp unlocks 2 slots on all frigates

3: 30,000 xp unlocks 3 slots on all frigates

So for this example, I have earned 25k xp sailing the Trinc; which means 25k xp has gone into the pool, and I have unlocked 2 slots on every frigate by specializing in the Trinc. I'm also only 5k xp away from unlocking 3 slots on every frigate. After I earn that xp and reach 30k in the pool, 3 slots become open on all frigates, but I have to sail the particular frigate I am interested in to unlock the last two slots on it.

This means that you can sail ANY frigate to gain ship xp that will transfer to other frigates. If you are just leveling up, you will have time to try out different frigates, till you find one you like, and you have not "wasted" any xp unlocking slots on a ship you don't plan on using.

What do you think?

[xAzDKr]

I have yet to try this on the testbed, but who's idiodic idea was this? Do away with the entire concept. Normal XP system is fine imo, don't fix what isn't broken.

There is no reason for me to have to grind around a bunch of random ships just so I can captain a specific ship.

This will make the game somehow even slower and probably turn me off from playing the game entirely. It may reward those who grind countless hours but I am a college student and I work, I don't have the time to grind some dumbass brig so I can captain a renomee so I can captain a surprise so I can captain a trinc, I'd rather saw off my own leg with a rusty spoon.

Edited April 19, 2017 by xAzDKr

[Farrago]

I get what the Devs are doing: the game is being designed for the many new players who will be joining the game rather than for all the Rear Admirals who have been here who want to get back in their tweaked out frigates and line ships. The system is being designed to simulate paying your dues in lower ships before being given command of the Enterprise.

It's a system that will be sort of fair for newbies but grossly unfair for those who have been around. Perhaps at wipe they could grant a one time for redeemable to unlock one ship to 5 slots commensurate to player rank at the time of wipe.

I also agree with some previous suggestions that it would make more sense that you have to qualify -- for lack of a better word -- on one ship from the lower classes rather than specific ships.

[Remus]

I think you've missed a key part of what the devs want to achieve - the good bit, in my opinion - that you need experience in smaller ships to get higher level slots in bigger ships. You need to master brigs to effectively sail frigates, for example. But they have made the rules far too inflexible: You have to master this particular brig in order to unlock this particular frigate, in a chain we all suspect encompasses every single ship in the game.

The core requirement - gaining experience in a Surprise unlocks slots on a Surprise - is sound and has been widely accepted.

You propose that some of the slots on a Surprise can be unlocked by mastering another frigate. Well, this is fair enough I suppose. Perhaps the first slot could be experience from any frigate, not just a Surprise. Possibly a later slot could be unlocked by experience in frigates other than a Surprise (ie you need to master another, unspecified frigate before it can be unlocked), though I'm not sure this is a good idea myself.

However, what I think fits in better with the devs plans (and let's not dismiss them out of hand, for at core they have a good idea), is for at least one of the higher slots to require xp from sailing a brig. Any brig (or post ship, or whatever is deemed the next level down). But the key word is any, not a Mercury, not a Navy Brig, not a Niagara, not a Cerberus. Whatever ship or ships you choose, whatever suits your play style.

 

[William Death]

17 hours ago, Remus said:

You propose that some of the slots on a Surprise can be unlocked by mastering another frigate. Well, this is fair enough I suppose. Perhaps the first slot could be experience from any frigate, not just a Surprise. Possibly a later slot could be unlocked by experience in frigates other than a Surprise (ie you need to master another, unspecified frigate before it can be unlocked), though I'm not sure this is a good idea myself.

However, what I think fits in better with the devs plans (and let's not dismiss them out of hand, for at core they have a good idea), is for at least one of the higher slots to require xp from sailing a brig. Any brig (or post ship, or whatever is deemed the next level down). But the key word is any, not a Mercury, not a Navy Brig, not a Niagara, not a Cerberus. Whatever ship or ships you choose, whatever suits your play style.

Yes, what I proposed if you want to fully unlock Surprise you can:

1. Sail only the Surprise till you have gained the required xp (each ship requires a different amount of xp to fully unlock). 

OR

2. Sail any frigate class ship (4-5) rate and you will unlock slots on all the frigates up to a maximum of 3 on every ship (assuming you fill the xp pool I described in the OP). After that, if you want more slots on a frigate, you have to sail that EXACT ship to get the last two to open. So in this case you could sail in the Cerberus or the Constitution and some of your experience handling those ships will transfer to the Surprise; but to become a Surprise master, you have to sail it some to get those last two slots open.

 

I see no need to sail the brig to know how to sail the frigates. You should have sailed one of the brigs when you were a First or Second Lieutenant with 120-150 men at your disposal. Same thing for the ships of the line: you don't need to learn how to sail a frigate to sail one of those, you should have sailed the frigates when you were a Captain with 350 crew. To learn a SOL, you need to sail the SOLs.

 

18 hours ago, Farrago said:

I get what the Devs are doing: the game is being designed for the many new players who will be joining the game rather than for all the Rear Admirals who have been here who want to get back in their tweaked out frigates and line ships. The system is being designed to simulate paying your dues in lower ships before being given command of the Enterprise.

It's a system that will be sort of fair for newbies but grossly unfair for those who have been around. Perhaps at wipe they could grant a one time for redeemable to unlock one ship to 5 slots commensurate to player rank at the time of wipe.

I also agree with some previous suggestions that it would make more sense that you have to qualify -- for lack of a better word -- on one ship from the lower classes rather than specific ships.

But you are already paying your dues in those little ships by ranking up your captain's level. That is what it is there for. You only need the basic knowledge of brigs you get by ranking up to be able to sail in a frigate. If you want to know more about sailing a frigate, you need to spend time in frigates, not brigs.

What the current system on testbed will do is require everybody to sail ships they don't like. What my proposed system (or even the current system on the live servers, for that matter) allows the guys ranking up in frigates to do is this: sail all the frigates they can get their hands on to test out each different one till they find one they like. Maybe they try a Belle, a Frigate, and an Essex and realize the Essex is their favorite of those and they would like to specialize in it. Well they already learned some frigate basics on the other ships, so they don't need to re-learn it on the Essex, therefore, they have 3 slots open. If they want to be really good in an Essex, they need to work in the Essex specifically. Not the Cutter, Brig, Snow, Renommee, Surprise, Frigate, Endymion, or any other ship.

 

Basically what I'm trying to say here is that your character's rank is a reflection of your ability to grasp the basics of sailing and fighting the ships in the game. The ships you want to specialize in should require specific knowledge for that class of ships, not a class of ships below it (you should already have that knowledge because you are a higher-ranking captain who has already paid his dues in the little ships).

[Farrago]

5 hours ago, Willis PVP2 said:

Basically what I'm trying to say here is that your character's rank is a reflection of your ability to grasp the basics of sailing and fighting the ships in the game. The ships you want to specialize in should require specific knowledge for that class of ships, not a class of ships below it (you should already have that knowledge because you are a higher-ranking captain who has already paid his dues in the little ships).

Oh, I totally agree. My post was just some offer of compromise because this seems like one of those topics that the Devs have made up their minds to "test". I fear it will just be one more roadblock in the wide acceptance and growth of the game. 

[jppsx]

way to long to grind whit this system 

[Spazza (Jon Von Hellsing)]

indeed

[Spazza (Jon Von Hellsing)]

Oh hallo again Willis XD

[--Privateer--]

I agree with the above sentiment that it is not worth grinding up every ship to unlock upgrades slots on the few ships that you sail. Currently I am only planning on unlocking the slots for each ship that I can unlock by sailing that ship, not some smaller ship I'll never use. As seen by the attached image, I have almost 1 million xp and am not going to grind anymore.

A system that I would support is one where you only need to gain xp on the ship you want upgrade slots on to unlock the slots.

Or maybe a system where you spend PvE marks to unlock the first two slots and PvP marks to unlock the last three slots.

[Werewolf]

Agree completely. The proposed system is a great idea. A lot of people ingame are bitching about the ship tier trees.... seems pretty harsh. We should be able to just sail that one ship, and gain experience towards that one ship. Having some flex points to transfer to another ship of same class is nice, but not needed if it comes down to it. The most important part of it is being able to gain experience on your chosen ship by just sailing it... not every other ship all around it. The skill based unlocks were a great implementation, and with this tweak, I think that system would be pretty much perfect.

[WilsonMG]

I leveled up once to Rear Admiral / Curse.  I'm not going to do it again, but this time by an even slower version because you've skill-locked the ships I've been sailing for ages behind a new leveling system.  If you want this kind of system then make it per ship and not based on the ship below it, i.e. I level the ship I'm in, when I'm in it, and it doesn't matter a good goddamn if I leveled the ship below it.

[Khyron]

Im not a big fan of the grind, just yet one more thing to do.

 

This game has so much, Economy, Ships, PvP, PvE, AI battles, Epic events, Trading missions... why add yet another thing to stress about.

[James Cornelius]

I agree with Willis' suggestion. Sailing similar ships should give *some* knowledge to get maybe three slots on ships like it. For upgrade slots 4 and 5 you should need specific ship knowledge.

[OneEyedSnake]

Bump because this idea needs to happen and soon! 

[Koltes]

@Willis PVP2 I agree with most of the parts except with XP distribution. I think this needs to be even easier to understand but go through more aspects of gameplay. Not just XP grinding, but also different types of activities like PVE, PVP and actual cost in gold

[Vllad]

 

While I agree it needs to be touched up a bit I have no problem with the current system. While they need to back it up with more port battles driven towards smaller ships I get why they are doing this.

First, let's assume for a minute that people doing this grind all start at level 1 and not at the highest rank trying to backtrack. That in itself adds to the frustration that may not be a reality if all our characters are re-set at launch.

Second, this makes the players make choices on the ships they want to sail down the road later. Do they want the speed line or tank line? Very much like classes in a traditional skill based MMO do you want to be a mage or warrior? While eventually you could end up doing them all I do think it needs to be a grind to accomplish it.

Third, it keeps older model ships viable for longer periods of time. Otherwise we might as well just have 3 ship types in the game and call it a day.

Fourth, let's be honest, the ship slot upgrades are not all that ground breaking that a 2 slot ship vs. a 3 slot ship make all that much difference. The 5th slot is almost useless unless you want to catch on fire a lot or use the wrong kind ship for boarding.

 

I agree it could use some a little modification but I really like where they are going with this model.  

[CaptVonGunn]

Just make it unlock all 5 in 1 ship in each rate(your choice)...ifthey want it harder after that tweak the xp in each...