Santa Cecila - Upwind Master?

[Liq]

A few days ago I had an arranged battle with a pyrate comrade. His Trincomalee versus my Santa Cecilia. We agreed on no demasting because we wanted to see how the result would look like when exchaning broadsides, and I wouldn't have had any chance versus both 32pdr carronades and 18pdr Longs if he went for demasting.
The battle was quite interesting, I could take advantage of the Trincomalee's extreme heel quite a few times and forced him to overshoot.
However, we noticed something extremely weird:
My Cecilia was, for some reason, able to keep up running with the trinc quite well. Not only did I keep up with him, I was even catching him. I am aware of the fact that the cecila has an excellent sailing profile, also upwind, but I was down to 63% sails, and still managed to do 7 knots upwind.
Additionally, I didn't have any special upwind mods. My cecila's Build is the following:

 

Have a look at the battle yourself. Both of us found it pretty strange.

 

Edited April 15, 2017 by Liquicity

[Powderhorn]

That is definitely interesting, but the Trinc also has a horrid upwind sailing profile.  I'm not sure if there's an issue here, especially as, at first glance, it seems your fore and aft sails are actually in pretty decent shape.  Remember that force is applied to each sail individually, not from the entire rig as a whole.

[Christendom]

my SC with gold staysails can catch anything.  it's pretty absurd.

[Sven Silberbart]

I can confirm Liquicity. We had also such experiences. I remember one battle where Santa Cecilia was running away upwind with ~60%. Followed by a Pirate Frigate 100% Sails - build as fast ship - and both ships did nearly the same speed.

 

[Bubba Smith]

With the ballast option in upgrades the Trin is a formidable sailing ship -  a good balance of sailing characteristics and firepower. I really can't comment on the Saint C as I haven't tried one yet but this seems like a worthy experiment, thanks for sharing Cap'in.

 

Edited April 16, 2017 by Buba Smith

[HachiRoku]

1 hour ago, Buba Smith said:

With the ballast option in upgrades the Trin is a formidable sailing ship -  a good balance of sailing characteristics and firepower. I really can't comment the Saint C as I haven't tried one yet but this seems like a worthy experiment, thanks for sharing Cap'in.

 

That is not the point of this. We are showing that a trinc cannot beat a Santa by taking its wind. All naval battles are about the wind so that is a flaw in my opinion. I took alot of damage chain expecting to outperform him with the wind and attack one side. The whole plan didn't work cause he can still turn circles around me with no sails. 

[William Death]

Yeah yeah, y'all keep bragging about having a Santa Cecilia. Meanwhile I'm sitting over here wishing I could have one.

4 hours ago, Powderhorn said:

it seems your fore and aft sails are actually in pretty decent shape.  Remember that force is applied to each sail individually, not from the entire rig as a whole.

Yes, I have noticed this in several battles I have been in. If I depower as the enemy is throwing chain into me (and better yet, angle my sails to present a smaller target) I can preserve some staysails and still do relatively good upwind. If a ship is chained from fore and aft, she seems to do badly downwind of a beam reach (square sails hit), if a ship is chained broadside to broadside, she seems to do worse upwind of a beam reach (staysails hit). I really like that I can somewhat manage what the enemy is chaining.

Back to the Cecilia: a buddy did loan me his Santa Cecilia to play around with, but I swore to not take her into open sea (only 1 dura left). From the duels I have done with her, I really enjoy sailing it. It is nice upwind, fast downwind, and quite a nice punch from her 12s and 9s. However, I think a Belle Poule with bow chasers would be a pretty good opponent for an SC. Not as good upwind, but thicker armor and less crew. 

On to the shameless begging: devs, can I pretty please have a Santa Cecilia before the wipe? I've been a good pirate, I promise!  (Bermuda Cedar Pirate Refit Speed would be my preferred build, pls and thanks). 

[Havelock]

I see nothing wrong here.

Chain mostly damages square sails. When sailing upwind only a very small portion of the forward drag comes from these and it wont matter much how damaged they are (fun fact: you sail faster on battle sails than on 60 or 80% at beam reach). The Trincos sailing profile is horrible below beam reach and turns bad aswell, se he didnt have a chance to get on your bad side.

Edited April 15, 2017 by Havelock

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Hence why don't really use it. It is seemingly way out of envelope. And it is not only upwind. Turns on the spot like a Brig, not even half length turn radius.

[HachiRoku]

2 hours ago, Willis PVP2 said:

Yeah yeah, y'all keep bragging about having a Santa Cecilia. Meanwhile I'm sitting over here wishing I could have one.

Yes, I have noticed this in several battles I have been in. If I depower as the enemy is throwing chain into me (and better yet, angle my sails to present a smaller target) I can preserve some staysails and still do relatively good upwind. If a ship is chained from fore and aft, she seems to do badly downwind of a beam reach (square sails hit), if a ship is chained broadside to broadside, she seems to do worse upwind of a beam reach (staysails hit). I really like that I can somewhat manage what the enemy is chaining.

Back to the Cecilia: a buddy did loan me his Santa Cecilia to play around with, but I swore to not take her into open sea (only 1 dura left). From the duels I have done with her, I really enjoy sailing it. It is nice upwind, fast downwind, and quite a nice punch from her 12s and 9s. However, I think a Belle Poule with bow chasers would be a pretty good opponent for an SC. Not as good upwind, but thicker armor and less crew. 

On to the shameless begging: devs, can I pretty please have a Santa Cecilia before the wipe? I've been a good pirate, I promise!  (Bermuda Cedar Pirate Refit Speed would be my preferred build, pls and thanks). 

i have a 2 duration teak crew spaces speed you can have for free, I dont like small boats like them

Edited April 15, 2017 by HachiRoku

[William Death]

3 hours ago, HachiRoku said:

i have a 2 duration teak crew spaces speed you can have for free, I dont like small boats like them

Really? That would be awesome! Is it on PVP2 by chance? If so, that is great; but if its on PVP1, I'd have to respectfully decline since I don't really play over there... Send me a PM if you want to arrange something. In-game name:        Willis               server: PvP 2 

I quite enjoy sailing the frigates around, I'm far from good in them, but I have a blast!

[HachiRoku]

20 minutes ago, Willis PVP2 said:

Really? That would be awesome! Is it on PVP2 by chance? If so, that is great; but if its on PVP1, I'd have to respectfully decline since I don't really play over there... Send me a PM if you want to arrange something. In-game name:        Willis               server: PvP 2 

I quite enjoy sailing the frigates around, I'm far from good in them, but I have a blast!

sorry pvp1, i should have seen your name.......

Edited April 16, 2017 by HachiRoku

[akd]

17 hours ago, The Red Duke said:

Hence why don't really use it. It is seemingly way out of envelope. And it is not only upwind. Turns on the spot like a Brig, not even half length turn radius.

It's unfortunate because it definitely feeds right into the whole premium ships are pay-to-win complaint.  Likewise, hull thickness and mast thickness are inflated out of proportion to size, and she is grossly over-armed versus design (which wouldn't be a problem if not paired with exceptional sailing performance).  And these stats have no connection to reality (she is closer in size to Surprise than Belle Poule / Essex / etc. ), but simply seem to have been assigned to make the ship highly desirable.  The only downside is the bizarre limitation of the gundeck to 24pdr carronades (presumably to "balance" the other nonsense stats, or to simply be arbitrarily different).

[Sir Texas Sir]

On 4/15/2017 at 9:59 PM, HachiRoku said:

sorry pvp1, i should have seen your name.......

Pretty much other than a few rare ones that where built when the BP was in that patch for a few hours, PvP2 has very few of these ships.  Even fewer these days.  Never understood why they weren't given out more queally among the servers, but hay we done player content events and such, just not tournaments is all.  

 

Would be nice if they gave one out to every one until the wipe.

[HachiRoku]

On 4/18/2017 at 8:28 AM, Sir Texas Sir said:

Pretty much other than a few rare ones that where built when the BP was in that patch for a few hours, PvP2 has very few of these ships.  Even fewer these days.  Never understood why they weren't given out more queally among the servers, but hay we done player content events and such, just not tournaments is all.  

 

Would be nice if they gave one out to every one until the wipe.

On 4/18/2017 at 8:28 AM, Sir Texas Sir said:

Pretty much other than a few rare ones that where built when the BP was in that patch for a few hours, PvP2 has very few of these ships.  Even fewer these days.  Never understood why they weren't given out more queally among the servers, but hay we done player content events and such, just not tournaments is all.  

 

Would be nice if they gave one out to every one until the wipe.

I know of 2 players that crafted something like 10 or more of them. They were in kin clan but are inactive. It's a waste 

[Sir Texas Sir]

6 hours ago, HachiRoku said:

 

Yah my old clan UNKN leader made two of them.  Gave them to two players and they don't play any more.  He was about to make a third for me cause I didn't have the mats at the moment to do it and they hotfixed it.   We did capture one recently and been passing the 1 dura ship around the clan so folks can take it into duels and test it out.  That is more what most of us want.  Just to test it out to see what all the hype is about lol