PvE vs PvP for the next Release

[Old_DAT]

I know there may be players who have been around longer than me (May 2016) but I have just been informed of the pending new release that will wipe away my work of the last 10 months.  I can live with that.  What concerns me is that there is discussion that there will only be a PvP option after the release.  Let me very clear and very blunt.  If there is nolonger a PvE option then I am done with this beautiful game. 

Let me explain why.  I tried the PvP server and found that it was just teen-age insanity run amok.  If I want that, I will continue to play World of Tanks and World of Warships.  I come to this game to 'get away from it all'.  I like being able to set a course on a long trading run and actually being able to 'leave the bridge' to get a shot of rum or kiss my pretty wife.  I do not wish to worry that some kid is going to 'gank' (such a lovely term) my ship while I am not directly focused on it.  In short, this game is my 'get away'.  Take that away and I will have to use the uninstall button.  A pity too since I now have level 50 craft and the rear admiral rank for the US.  A lot of time and work and good friends to lose.  But there it is.  I can't wait to hear back from the developers on all of this. 

Thanks for letting me vent.

v/R

[Anolytic]

You've misunderstood. They're doing away with the PvE server, but instead there will be PvE-only zones on the other servers. You will still have a large area to enjoy PvE content uninterrupted.

[Old_DAT]

I am going to give all this a chance as I said.  Too much time and work put into this game to just quit summarily.  However, that is my current inclination.  We shall just have to wait and see what it is then decide.  Thanks for the come back.  Nothing like being quarantined to some 'corner of the map'.  I suppose my ability to do trading will be reduced accordingly because I don't wish to babysit.  Great.

 

 

Edited March 17, 2017 by Old_DAT
cuz I wanted to again

[JazAero]

I have to agree with the OP, I and my brother and sister, all three play this game and we are unified as well as many of the players posting in the game chat that we absolutely will refuse to play this game anymore if it goes to PVP style. I don't think the developers realize that there is a very large core group of older players who enjoy this game for its relaxing almost nostalgic and romantic tone of the game. We feel it's the kind of game made for people like us who don't want to be involved with kiddy twitch shooters, and ganking squads of amoralistic, immature, frustrated Eve players. It has been said that the developers are patterning this game after Eve, I would highly caution against that, if we wanted Eve we would play Eve. If we wanted call of duty we would play that game, if we wanted Elite dangerous or any of the other first-person shooter style dog eat dog economy games then we would play those games. But we choose instead to play this game because it offers a game style unique unto itself and does not have to emulate anything else out there.

the only thing that has ever been missing from this came in our humble opinion, meaning me and my siblings and close friends, is the lack of vertical achievement beyond the rank of rear admiral. Because once that rank is achieved all gameplay becomes obsolete and redundant. All the developers really needed to do was to create an achievement progression comensurate with both period and play style inherent in this game.

there is a camaraderie among players of this game that you don't usually find in games of any genre, I believe a lot of that has to do with the average age and maturity level of the player base on the PVE server. if you start throwing those people in with the younger PVP demographic you're going to have a mass exodus on your hands.

So that's my two cents for whatever it's really worth

 

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

Every server must pull its weight.  If the cost of operating a server outstrips the number of players that are sustaining it, there is no way to keep it running.

The current plan is not to remove the ability to have a PvE only experience, however, that experience will take place on what is currently a dedicated PvP server.  I too like to relax and enjoy some quiet PvE, so I continue to advocate behind the scenes for ensuring that PvE players still have a place to enjoy the game.

Hang in there and let's see what the new system will look like!

[Bubba Smith]

Good posts Old_Dat and JazAero! Thanks for your comments.

Our clan (Flying Powder Monkeys) had a PvE membership up to almost 70 members both active and inactive. We are down to 54 members most of which are active and from those whom I have chatted with online are NOT happy with the restriction placed on PvE players and consider it a "deal breaker".  We have lost about 1/3 of our players so far for one reason or another and with this latest announcements (I coped and shared the direct link to them) almost all of our clan are very disappointed.. to say the least. Some feel the lack of ranks above Rear Admiral a short coming but to have a PvE section in the greater gulf of Mexico only very restrictive considering our present PvE map access. 

I have over 2700 hours in this game with the entire map on PvE and to have our map restricted to the gulf of Mexico (quote: This will basically turn Gulf of mexico into large PvE zone.) is unacceptable. I am not alone saying this; so before it's too late ask yourself at the developer level is it worth implementing this global map-system change? If you think it is ... well nuff said. 

 

 

Edited March 17, 2017 by Buba Smith

[Bubba Smith]

5 minutes ago, Henry d'Esterre Darby said:

Every server must pull its weight.  If the cost of operating a server outstrips the number of players that are sustaining it, there is no way to keep it running.

The current plan is not to remove the ability to have a PvE only experience, however, that experience will take place on what is currently a dedicated PvP server.  I too like to relax and enjoy some quiet PvE, so I continue to advocate behind the scenes for ensuring that PvE players still have a place to enjoy the game.

Hang in there and let's see what the new system will look like!

Well I do agree with your Wait and see policy I can only hope PvE players will have a better environment to sail in then the Gulf Of Mexico. 

[Fabius]

Just for the record I am not a big fan of this change. I guess the Gulf of Mexico for PVE is pretty big, but there will not be enough nations in it to have political interaction. It will be British vs. Spanish all the time, the French being too far away for the British to bother with. If you do this add some other nations to PVE and put some non-existent islands out in the middle to make it interesting.

I'd prefer that you give PVE everything east of Puerto Rico instead, and then you can throw in the Dutch, Danish, and Swedish - Which would help them out because they are small nations to begin with and facing a lot of hazards for PVP. 

[BoomBox]

i also spend  my time on pve and found out , the bunch that hangs there are a helpful crowd. i really do not want to see that server closed. chat there is not toxic as on pvp1 . it comes down to this , i get home after a hard days of work and just want to chill a few hours in NA. That is not possible on the pvp server. i got enough competition at work , dont need it in a game . I love the game setting and well there are no good sailing games out there , this one is the best . And yes i was part of POTBS from day one , that game doesnt compare to this. But i am willing to try out the changes , it's Early Access and changes come and go

[Ruthless4u]

17 hours ago, Buba Smith said:

Well I do agree with your Wait and see policy I can only hope PvE players will have a better environment to sail in then the Gulf Of Mexico. 

You have the entire map to sail, just don't walk away from the game for 20 mins at a time and you be able to avoid fighting.

[Remus]

17 hours ago, Henry d'Esterre Darby said:

Every server must pull its weight.  If the cost of operating a server outstrips the number of players that are sustaining it, there is no way to keep it running.

Yes, but you aren't - not at the moment at any rate - charging subscriptions. Therefore your income as I understand it derives from new players buying the game, not from existing players. To get new players in you need to make it attractive to them, and to attract them through the flotsam of negative reviews that dominate Steam right now.

One of the attractive features for many potential purchasers is a PvE server. The sometimes appaling behaviour of PvP1 players is well documented and potential buyers will almost certainly have read reports from ex-players driven away by the other players' attitudes. It certainly put back my own purchase by several months. Having a dedicated PvE server - and advertising you have a separate PvE server - may well help bring new players in. Genuine PvE players, and also people like me who want to play on a PvP server but liked the chance of starting off on PvE to gain confidnce in the game before jumping into the lion's den.

The PvE server amy be relatively quiet but it has an excellent and helpful community who probably do more to promote the game to new players than anyone on PvP1.

[Seaside]

5 hours ago, Remus said:

Yes, but you aren't - not at the moment at any rate - charging subscriptions. Therefore your income as I understand it derives from new players buying the game, not from existing players. To get new players in you need to make it attractive to them, and to attract them through the flotsam of negative reviews that dominate Steam right now.

One of the attractive features for many potential purchasers is a PvE server. The sometimes appaling behaviour of PvP1 players is well documented and potential buyers will almost certainly have read reports from ex-players driven away by the other players' attitudes. It certainly put back my own purchase by several months. Having a dedicated PvE server - and advertising you have a separate PvE server - may well help bring new players in. Genuine PvE players, and also people like me who want to play on a PvP server but liked the chance of starting off on PvE to gain confidnce in the game before jumping into the lion's den.

The PvE server amy be relatively quiet but it has an excellent and helpful community who probably do more to promote the game to new players than anyone on PvP1.

Since bots don't attack you on the PVE server ,PVE never stood a chance to grow into the large community it would have been.

You can head into the open world, go to bed and get up the next morning, sit at you're computer again knowing your ship has been sailing along perfectly safe.

Not exactly a thrilling experience.

They would be better off to leave the server going and finish implementing it.

Then it will carry its own weight.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 18, 2017 by Seaside

[Challenge]

A more aggressive AI would help PvE Server users. But too much and it would have the opposite effect. I thought they did that once?

[Sir Cloudsley-Shovell]

No PVE then thats it for me!NA will be unnstalled!

[Seaside]

21 hours ago, Challenge said:

A more aggressive AI would help PvE Server users. But too much and it would have the opposite effect. I thought they did that once?

Not aware of them doing it. Perhaps before I came to the game ?

AI would have to chase with a random timer. Once it is up AI gives up chase if it hasn't gotten close enough for combat.

I agree you wouldn't want them chasing you too long. This feature would make open world much much more interesting. If you are real unlucky one

AI could wind up chasing you in the direction of another AI. Would force the player to think about where he is going and actually be alert in open world.

Don't think PVP players would like this so it would require separate servers - which there should be anyway.

People who bought this game for PVE only, should not be stuck in  the Gulf of Mexico

[LeBoiteux]

AI aggressiveness was disabled in Dec. 2015. This is an essential PvE feature IMO. Planned to be reimplemented in 2017 :

On 19/01/2017 at 9:26 AM, admin said:

 

• NPC changes

   

  • Bots will change and will start changing from January. Privateers will be added to the OW attacking players and traders in enemy waters. Elite NPC captains will also sail around and join battles from time to time (like before release). 

About PvP-ers disliking being tagged by bots, a perk disabling or allowing AI aggressiveness would do.

AI agressiveness is essentiel in OW as players who are not attacked by enemies is the main deficiency of PvE and the main difference between OW PvE and PvP right now. 

Edited March 22, 2017 by LeBoiteux

[DeRuyter]

2 hours ago, LeBoiteux said:

AI aggressiveness was disabled in Dec. 2015. This is an essential PvE feature IMO. Planned to be reimplemented in 2017 :

About PvP-ers disliking being tagged by bots, a perk disabling or allowing AI aggressiveness would do.

AI agressiveness is essentiel in OW as players who are not attacked by enemies is the main deficiency of PvE and the main difference between OW PvE and PvP right now. 

Well this was during the flag PB system - so you had a limited time to plant the flag to start PB, but a fleet of bots tags the flag carrier creating problems. Aggressive AI should have remained in PVE as you note. I think some amount should be back at least for PVE zone.

[Smithy]

What about an option (tickbox,toggle?) at the login where you can select PVP or PVE on server you are on. PVP option nothing changes we continue as PVP server had.

Choose PVE and you get some buff so other players cant engage you and you cant be caught up in any instance of players joining other side to get you,etc. of course then the argument will be about sailing around and "only" finding people who they cant attack. To which I think id rather see at least some other life on the seas but cant be engaged than see nothing... for an age...

so essentially PVE and PVP operate on the same map and server but are independent of each other combat wise at least.

This would require some sort of cooldown between switching mode to stop likely loophole, grey area carry on, say 24hrs cooldown if you want to switch between PVE and PVP.

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Smithy said:

What about an option (tickbox,toggle?) at the login where you can select PVP or PVE on server you are on. PVP option nothing changes we continue as PVP server had.

Choose PVE and you get some buff so other players cant engage you and you cant be caught up in any instance of players joining other side to get you,etc. of course then the argument will be about sailing around and "only" finding people who they cant attack. To which I think id rather see at least some other life on the seas but cant be engaged than see nothing... for an age...

so essentially PVE and PVP operate on the same map and server but are independent of each other combat wise at least.

This would require some sort of cooldown between switching mode to stop likely loophole, grey area carry on, say 24hrs cooldown if you want to switch between PVE and PVP.

i thought about this once, but people would use the oportunity to scout with alts. I simply cant see a system that would work and you cant exploit it. Could maybe implement that pve players can tag eachother in PB zones and not drag in pvp players

[Smithy]

An NPC ambush feature might solve it somewhat.

NPC would be aggressive and could launch an unforeseeable attack on player. Always possible but more so the slower one sailed and also if in enemy waters for instance. Maybe I wrongfully assume PVE players wouldn't mind the occasional random PVE attack? And might just make it not worthwhile for a PVP main scouting on PVE toon.

further to this make defeat of such an ambush quite a good yield to appeal to PVE player even?

Edited March 22, 2017 by Smithy

[Justme]

On March 17, 2017 at 11:20 PM, Seaside said:

Since bots don't attack you on the PVE server ,PVE never stood a chance to grow into the large community it would have been.

You can head into the open world, go to bed and get up the next morning, sit at you're computer again knowing your ship has been sailing along perfectly safe.

Not exactly a thrilling experience.

They would be better off to leave the server going and finish implementing it.

Then it will carry its own weight.

 

 

 

 

 

The problem is most of the PVE guys who are complaining want a no effort easy mode style of game. Like you said they want to log in point their ship in a direction then check back in several hours.  Their idea of combat is likely ganking unarmed AI trade ships.

No risk, no reward, no real fun.

Unless of course you like FarmVille style games.

Edited March 22, 2017 by Justme

[Seaside]

35 minutes ago, Justme said:

The problem is most of the PVE guys who are complaining want a no effort easy mode style of game. Like you said they want to log in point their ship in a direction then check back in several hours.  Their idea of combat is likely ganking unarmed AI trade ships.

No risk, no reward, no real fun.

Unless of course you like FarmVille style games.

That would be like playing any FPS where the AI won't come after you.  Boring.

Can't imagine anybody would want no AI threats.

Does anyone here ?

I would like there to be a great threat in PVE - just an AI one.

And a full map to play on. In fact I would like to see the map extended up the East coast of US/Canada some day.

 

 

[Sea Fox]

Old_DAT and the rest, I get it! I understand! Old_DAT I started ruffly the same time last year in US PVE, you may remember me (John P Jones). I too am an old fart, maybe younger than most on pve (age 43). I've played over 6000 hours on both my home computer profile and my work computer profile. I get what your saying and was in agreement 6 months or so ago. I loved the PVE server and had the same opinion about PVP server. I would just like to persuade you to hear me out on a few points as one of your piers.
 
1.  I think a merge is necessary for server and game survival and to make the eventual switch to PVP smoother and easier
2. Are there pimple popping brats in better ships on PVP who will gang up on you and bully you relentlessly? Yes! It was hard as hell making the switch to PVP and being a loner all this time. No i'm not a rear admiral yet, just a commodore but I can beat one on one any PVE rear admiral there is because of my next point
3. You guys say there isn't a next logical step after rear admiral in PVE, your right! Next step is PVP! I liken this to chess or another old game I like (Age of Empires). Sure playing the computer (AI) is fun but not as fun or fulfilling as a flesh and blood opponent. The thrill of PVP is more appealing and always new. PVP is what will sustain the numbers. There are so many facets of this wonderful game that you all as crafters and trader don't get because your not in the MORE REALISTIC world of PVP. You may craft at 50 but can you craft the perfect LGV? The perfect Trincomalee? Do you know what region bonuses and mods to put on and wood to build a surprise with?? No. I tell you it was hard at first but I sail where I want and fight when I want in PVP now.           
4. After wipe everyone will be on a more even playing field and PVP will be easiest as it's been in a long time!                   
I hope you guys venture out of the PVE zone and come sail into a new adventure. Get sunk, get boarded.  Get sunk again, get boarded again. Learn the real game. Eventually when you outrun a bunch of Danes in painted ships or catch that one punk ganker sailing alone from his mommy and daddy's basement and relieve him of his ship you will know the sweet, sweet taste of real victory!!

 

[DeRuyter]

14 hours ago, Sea Fox said:

Old_DAT and the rest, I get it! I understand! Old_DAT I started ruffly the same time last year in US PVE, you may remember me (John P Jones). I too am an old fart, maybe younger than most on pve (age 43). I've played over 6000 hours on both my home computer profile and my work computer profile. I get what your saying and was in agreement 6 months or so ago. I loved the PVE server and had the same opinion about PVP server. I would just like to persuade you to hear me out on a few points as one of your piers.
 
1.  I think a merge is necessary for server and game survival and to make the eventual switch to PVP smoother and easier
2. Are there pimple popping brats in better ships on PVP who will gang up on you and bully you relentlessly? Yes! It was hard as hell making the switch to PVP and being a loner all this time. No i'm not a rear admiral yet, just a commodore but I can beat one on one any PVE rear admiral there is because of my next point
3. You guys say there isn't a next logical step after rear admiral in PVE, your right! Next step is PVP! I liken this to chess or another old game I like (Age of Empires). Sure playing the computer (AI) is fun but not as fun or fulfilling as a flesh and blood opponent. The thrill of PVP is more appealing and always new. PVP is what will sustain the numbers. There are so many facets of this wonderful game that you all as crafters and trader don't get because your not in the MORE REALISTIC world of PVP. You may craft at 50 but can you craft the perfect LGV? The perfect Trincomalee? Do you know what region bonuses and mods to put on and wood to build a surprise with?? No. I tell you it was hard at first but I sail where I want and fight when I want in PVP now.           
4. After wipe everyone will be on a more even playing field and PVP will be easiest as it's been in a long time!                   
I hope you guys venture out of the PVE zone and come sail into a new adventure. Get sunk, get boarded.  Get sunk again, get boarded again. Learn the real game. Eventually when you outrun a bunch of Danes in painted ships or catch that one punk ganker sailing alone from his mommy and daddy's basement and relieve him of his ship you will know the sweet, sweet taste of real victory!!

 

All good points but I'd like to add that the PVP angry teenager meme is not nearly as prevalent in NA as it may be in FPS shooter games for example or WoT for that matter. Have I seen instances of it in chat or in combat ("get rekt" etc) sure, but more often than not I see people saying have fun, good game etc. If you sail alone of course you may get caught by a squadron out hunting or you may get away.

In my clan there are a number of people in the 40 plus range including several guys who are retired. People reminiscing about the beginnings of PC gaming in the late 1980s for example!! I am also a tabletop gamer which is all pvp all the time. So I think it is a misnomer that the pvp server in NA is populated by badly behaving kids.

[Wesreidau]

I've made a suggestion to keep the PvE players as a separate faction on the PvP server which cannot be attacked, and so free to trade and sail and fight AI's across the whole ocean. If that sounds better to you than a PvE zone then I ask you express your support to the link below.