Upcoming changes to ship upgrades. (Note to Devs)

[Fengist]

Posted by Ink in another (locked) thread"

Also to note:

Upgrades in their current form will be removed from the game. They will be replaced by ship knowledge or skills (naming is work in progress) which you will unlock by sailing that particular type of ship. Hard and soft caps for bonuses/improvements will be introduced as well. In the final form you will only be able to install pumps if you learned how to use pumps more efficiently on that particular vessel. But once you learned for that ship it you won't need to get pumps any more. Skills of using pumps on Cerberus will be irrelevant for a first rate and vice versa.

If you're switching to some form of timed based skills, you just punished all of the casual players, like me, who only get to play once or twice a week.

Please reconsider

[Corona Lisa]

Sounds great.

[Fengist]

I agree. It sounds great as long as players aren't rewarded by the amount of time they spend in-game. Tipping the balance in favor of hard-core gamers will just cause the casuals to uninstall or not even buy it in the first place.

[Corona Lisa]

8 minutes ago, Fengist said:

I agree. It sounds great as long as players aren't rewarded by the amount of time they spend in-game. Tipping the balance in favor of hard-core gamers will just cause the casuals to uninstall or not even buy it in the first place.

Try buying carpenter teams. Cant be worse then it is right now.

[CatSwift]

As a casual player, I think this sounds awesome.  I don't mind specializing in just one or two ships, and getting rid of mods is completely worth it.

[Wesreidau]

Casuals are more likely to have one or two ships and play steadily them than churn through ten or twenty dragging their million-dollar gold mods with them.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Where do you read "time based skills" ? Because I cannot come to interpret the text in that way no where.

What do i miss ?

[Yar Matey]

1 hour ago, JonSnowLetsGo said:

Try buying carpenter teams. Cant be worse then it is right now.

As someone who has exceptional carpenter teams, exceptional powder monkey's, and did at one point have my hands on exceptional marines, I agree 100%.  It is simply not fair that I have access to a module that gives me a such a huge advantage.  I would be perfectly ok with these modules IF they were all craft-able so everyone had access to them.  Powder monkey's used to be more valuable than carpenter teams until they got hit with the nerf bat. 

Your right, it simply cannot get any worse than it is now. This apparent/leaked changes Ink is talking about seem like a step in the right direction. 

Edited March 9, 2017 by Yar Matey

[Raekur]

I think the one main thing this will correct is part of the reason that some people got into duplication. Modules, war supplies and 1st, 2nd rate ships were the main things being duplicated in mass. One process could duplicate up to 32 upgrades at a time along with the ship. So eliminating the upgrades and replacing them with an xp driven upgrade I think is a fantastic idea. If you really like a particular ship and spend a large amount of time in it you should be better than someone who just shifts over some gold upgrades and is able to kick your teeth in because you don't have the same level of upgrades.

 

Edit: also along with this is people will not be so reserved in committing the use of 1st rate ships into a battle. If you have the upgrade via skill gain then losing the ship is less of an impact.

Edited March 9, 2017 by Raekur
additional note.

[Raekur]

31 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Where do you read "time based skills" ? Because I cannot come to interpret the text in that way no where.

What do i miss ?

Quote:   They will be replaced by ship knowledge or skills (naming is work in progress) which you will unlock by sailing that particular type of ship.

This implies that the longer you sail a specific class of ship the more "experience" you will gain with that class. It is similar to gaining rank and unlocking larger crew compliments.

[Fengist]

34 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Where do you read "time based skills" ? Because I cannot come to interpret the text in that way no where.

What do i miss ?

In the final form you will only be able to install pumps if you learned how to use pumps more efficiently on that particular vessel.

[Fengist]

40 minutes ago, Wesreidau said:

Casuals are more likely to have one or two ships and play steadily them than churn through ten or twenty dragging their million-dollar gold mods with them.

Well, you do have a point there.  Theoretically I could sail a Surprise (yea, still somewhat of a noob).  However, I'm loving the little Snow so I sail it a lot, occasionally a privateer and  then traders. I don't mind earning an upgrade, unlike what they have now (getting a guild mate to craft gold mods with my mats), as long as it doesn't take months of casual playing to even be competitive.  I've seen too many MMO's that reward those that spend incredible amounts of time online while those that can't are left weak and ultimately disappointed.  And if it is time based, they've got a lot to think about... like logging in, clicking the sail button in a noob protected port and collecting a reward for going nowhere.  Or how about just sailing out into the middle of the Atlantic and every 5 minutes have autohotkey hit the 'a' key.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Yes, I read it. I see no reference to time progression based skills.

What I read is the more effective use of the ship equipment the best your crew becomes. Is it time based or skill based ?

[Fengist]

3 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Yes, I read it. I see no reference to time progression based skills.

What I read is the more effective use of the ship equipment the best your crew becomes. Is it time based or skill based ?

Well, either way, if you take the implications or not, if it is going to be time based, I wanted to add my 2 cents.  Call it precaution.

[elite92]

they listen to me xD im happy

seems legit, the more u play a ship , the more u are good at command that type. in the form of more carpenters ability or pump efficency or reload time . its a step in the right direction to implement officers maybe later. the remove of rare unvratable and so unreacheable for some casuals upgrades is a nice move imho.

maybe we can test a "class of ship" ability instead of unique ship one. so u unlock extra pumps on all frigates(5th) , all 4th rate and so on

[Sir Texas Sir]

3 hours ago, Fengist said:

I agree. It sounds great as long as players aren't rewarded by the amount of time they spend in-game. Tipping the balance in favor of hard-core gamers will just cause the casuals to uninstall or not even buy it in the first place.

Why should I not have the better ship and crew for my time in game with that ship and crew than some joe blow that just bought a ship and come out green as hell?  I been saying the officer system should be based on the ship and crew experience with hat player.  You trade the ship it starts new with green officer and crew.  Say I have one ship that I have had since the start over a year ago (I do still have my first exceptional ship a Trader Brig).  Why should that ship not have a reputation and skills over a new ship.  It still has all 5 dura and it's been in many a fights back in the old days I ran a lot of in the shallows.  It's made to run and escape.  I see a system that rewards a longer running ship should give it special reputation to and maybe give more rewards for when you do sink it.  Say I have a Niagara in the shallows (my alt has one) that is known for it's trade hunting.  It's killed many a H Rattlers too.   I demast them and than board them when it's a solo fight cause it's a very light fast ship.   The thing is it should have a  reputation and the more I kill folks the better that crew should be and the reputation.  So when I finally do get sunk it should reward the players too.  Like a bonus xp/credits (can say my bounty) for ships that have more experience than some green ship.

I'm sorry you want to get better than you need to play more.    We don't have a true level system as you can get into any ships you want even if you don't have the crews (limit though for a few ships).  

[Daguse]

6 hours ago, Fengist said:

Posted by Ink in another (locked) thread"

Also to note:

Upgrades in their current form will be removed from the game. They will be replaced by ship knowledge or skills (naming is work in progress) which you will unlock by sailing that particular type of ship. Hard and soft caps for bonuses/improvements will be introduced as well. In the final form you will only be able to install pumps if you learned how to use pumps more efficiently on that particular vessel. But once you learned for that ship it you won't need to get pumps any more. Skills of using pumps on Cerberus will be irrelevant for a first rate and vice versa.

If you're switching to some form of timed based skills, you just punished all of the casual players, like me, who only get to play once or twice a week.

Please reconsider

I don't get a time based vibe, Eve style. More like experience in that ship. Think of world of warships. 

Speaking of, arnt the devs former war gaming devs?

So all they need is a lobby system, and they can just end development on the game. Call it world of naval action.

Edited March 10, 2017 by Daguse

[Fengist]

3 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Why should I not have the better ship and crew for my time in game with that ship and crew than some joe blow that just bought a ship and come out green as hell?  I been saying the officer system should be based on the ship and crew experience with hat player.  You trade the ship it starts new with green officer and crew.  Say I have one ship that I have had since the start over a year ago (I do still have my first exceptional ship a Trader Brig).  Why should that ship not have a reputation and skills over a new ship.  It still has all 5 dura and it's been in many a fights back in the old days I ran a lot of in the shallows.  It's made to run and escape.  I see a system that rewards a longer running ship should give it special reputation to and maybe give more rewards for when you do sink it.  Say I have a Niagara in the shallows (my alt has one) that is known for it's trade hunting.  It's killed many a H Rattlers too.   I demast them and than board them when it's a solo fight cause it's a very light fast ship.   The thing is it should have a  reputation and the more I kill folks the better that crew should be and the reputation.  So when I finally do get sunk it should reward the players too.  Like a bonus xp/credits (can say my bounty) for ships that have more experience than some green ship.

I'm sorry you want to get better than you need to play more.    We don't have a true level system as you can get into any ships you want even if you don't have the crews (limit though for a few ships).  

The problem with your play more theory is, some people have RL jobs that prevent that. and RL>NA.  You have very valid points but:  if these ship skills give too much of an advantage it'll be right back where we are now, gold ships and mods vs a green ship.

[Sir Texas Sir]

4 hours ago, Fengist said:

The problem with your play more theory is, some people have RL jobs that prevent that. and RL>NA.  You have very valid points but:  if these ship skills give too much of an advantage it'll be right back where we are now, gold ships and mods vs a green ship.

And  gold ships are always going to be better than a green store bought ship.  They are made for the casual player to fight AI, not to fight other players.  You want to do well in PvP you need the better ships.  If you want to do ok in PvE you use green ships.   No one is stopping the causal players from doing this.

Edited March 10, 2017 by Sir Texas Sir

[Raekur]

Fengist, the problem with keeping a system where the casual player will have equal footing to someone who plays the game very often is that by doing so you are in fact punishing the person who plays more often by stifling their progression and penalizing them in order to keep them equal to someone who does not play hardly at all. How is that even remotely close to being fair? I have seem a system that attempted this once, it failed in less then 2 weeks because there was no room for improvement to the characters skill level. If you have any possibility of advancing a characters skill then there WILL be a advantage towards those that play more often. That is as simple a math equation as it can possibly get. Suggestion to the "casual" player, pick ONE ship, and focus your time into that ship. My guess is that the skill gain system will be based on experience earned while in a specific ship, similar to how officers advanced in rank by getting half of the earned experience. So depending on the skill tree that is going to be used it may take a while to get up to the more advanced skills, it may not take hardly any time at all if you have a group working together. No game system I have ever seen that was worth it has ever given the casual solo player equal footing to the group players who show up daily.

[Sven Silberbart]

Cant see anything unfair..

Player A: Spend 10 hours on Cerberus and needed 2 weeks

Player B: Spend 10 hours on Cerberus and needed 2 days

Both spend the same time on cerberus and can unlock the same upgrades.

Sounds fair for me. With such a mechanic everyone can focus on his favorite ship types wich is a very welcome change.

Of course if Player A fights against Player B at day 3, then Player B has an advantage. But thats ok because he has more experience

Edited March 10, 2017 by Sven Silberbart

[Corona Lisa]

I just hope that it doesnt end in another PvE grindfest. Therefore fighting/killing ships in PvP should give more XP

[Abram Svensson]

I am asking myself the following:

 

1. If you lose the last dura of your full upgraded ship, do you need to grind the XP on the second one from new? (a bit like the officer just on a ship)

2. Can you put a full upgraded ship on sale and sell it with the upgrades?

[Sir Texas Sir]

3 hours ago, Abram Svensson said:

I am asking myself the following:

 

1. If you lose the last dura of your full upgraded ship, do you need to grind the XP on the second one from new? (a bit like the officer just on a ship)

2. Can you put a full upgraded ship on sale and sell it with the upgrades?

I would assume when you loose the ship it's all gone.  I would the xp should be gone if you trade or sale a ship though this might be a way for folks to make money in game too. I can sale a very experienced ship to some casual player that I put a lot of hours on and they will get a well rounded crew, but I would hope in all honesty that a ship looses all xp when traded or sold.  Since you think the officers and crew wouldn't go with that ship if you where to trade or sale it.

Though that brings to one of the big issues I see with this.  Letting folks borrow ships for a fight.  If the xp stays with the ship no matter who owns it wouldn't be a problem, but if it resets every time it changes owners that would be a pain.  I'm kind mixed on this, but I think if they do it we should test it out and see how it works.  Though I don't think we will be seeing these changes any time soon.   

[Raekur]

3 hours ago, Abram Svensson said:

I am asking myself the following:

 

1. If you lose the last dura of your full upgraded ship, do you need to grind the XP on the second one from new? (a bit like the officer just on a ship)

I believe that the skills earned is with the 'class' of ship not the one you are using currently.

2. Can you put a full upgraded ship on sale and sell it with the upgrades?

Since the new system replaces upgrades, this question is not possible as the skills you earn with a class of ship can not be traded.