Magazine explosion

[Cmdr RideZ]

A friend told that a ship exploded after a moment of smoke, without flames, nor fire shock.  He told that the ship was sinking, someone fired a broadside to her stern, it got on fire.  He sailed from ships right side to it's left side, and it exploded.  I understood it was pretty fast after it got on fire, no flames, just fire and a bit of smoke.

He told that someone said that with Magazine explosion you do not need flames.

So what is the mechanism, why it happens?  Soon after you get a ship on fire, it is smoking and then explodes.  I understood that the fire animation is kinda fuse that gives you a bit of time to sail away, so that you can react to this.  Now it seems like this is not the case.

Edited February 6, 2017 by Cmdr RideZ

[jezdk]

if Magazine get hit it will explode, but there are protectet whit a layer of woood like the side of ship

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Magazine has a HP threshold as well.

As we have it now it is really rare but is dependent on where the fire is and what ship is being affected.

Snows used to blow up regularly, long ago, due it well placed shots below the waterline which ignited the magazine and made it explode.

As a similar module example, Rudder also has a HP value, it is not only a white,yellow,red.

Thing with the magazine is... once it gets fire going there's little that can be done unless the fire is already being contained.

It is ship dependent as there are several magazine powders in some of the larger ships, smaller boats have one.

[Dozer]

May i ask if this was during the PVP event last night and the ship was a bellona ? If yes it was me that exploded and yes if was fast. As soon as i saw that i was on fire i turned off survival as i was sinking anyway so i tried to take some of the pirates with me down. But i was in fireshock before i exploded, im pretty sure that the ship was only smoking when it exploded yes

[Norfolk nChance]

RideZ,

I claim to be no expert in all things NA apart from one. I've probably blown up more L'Os and Santi's than anyone in the Game. L'Os 7 to date alone,Santi's countless, also pretty good at St Pavels for some reason... I can make a virtual FireShip mod setup that works... this is nothing to be proud of, but what interests me about your friend is timing. I just noticed probably from 8 to 10 days ago fire and explosions have started to increase again... Blew a Bucc sky high in PvP US(2) last week in just an easy flag cap fleet mission.

 

what's the question?

Without trying to be rude please don't take offense at me breaking down your note.

I think I'm pretty sure what happened in the opening paragraph from your friends account.

The second paragraph is a completely separate and unrelated topic to the first paragraph.

The third paragraph relates only to the second and NOT the first.

I will try to answer what I believe is actually two questions...

1. What Happened with my friends ship in this battle?

2. What does the ship's magazine do, and how do this integrate with other ship mechanics while in battle?

If these two Qs are way off base apologies, but I hope they might help. However first we need to discuss...

Hethwill the Moderator

Hethwill  is one of my favorite mods to follow. He really knows his stuff and will try to expand his explanations to make sure his message gets across to your question. Not like some who give one word answers or completely go off topic. However there is a reason why we don't always get the answers we want when asking Dev's or Mod's our questions. Like EvE Online, NA developers don't want you to be spoon fed stats, hard rules etc. Instead they want you to explore and test things for yourself in their sandbox world. And I completely agree with this concept as long as it doesn't mislead.

Here Hethwill seems to have answered your question pretty well. Read it again. He's actually answered question two, left you clues but no figures or % chances. Mentioned a ship and explained another mod...

When asking a question to a Dev or Mod be very specific. You might think you were. Please take  no offense you made an assumption from an incident in P1, in P2 that turned into the P3 question... make sense? But the assumption is flawed...1+1 +1=4...?

What if you add a P4 and said....  "With all that being said can a Dev a Mod or anybody tell me what happened to my friend in my opening statement"

You wouldn't have a quick reply and when it finally comes would be vague...

Data

Finally not enough data present to assume a Magazine hit. They are VERY rare. You need at Least the BulletLog of the battle.

You need to provide ship details, include mods load outs and officer perks. The conditions PvP... EPIC Mission, Fleet or PB....

With more Data you could have made a better assumption.... 1.25 + 1.25 +1.5 = 4....

What Happened?

I've included the link above when this first started with me with a  L'O and a Santi. The problem got continually worse for others at the time. The Dev's denied anything and wouldn't answer direct questions. It completely stopped after a patch. No fires, no explosions.  I continued then to try and force some of PvE ships to blow up in EPICs and Missions. It became a hobby...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 I start to realize what actually I think happened in both my cases. Fuzzyhead12 gives me the key. Mod staking and over stressing medium cannons in a short space of time. The larger the ship the more cannons, and survival mode (8) off gives the higher the probability STACK of a clean explosion without any warning.

I think  NA was tweaked given it a slightly better chance of a small fire. However forced multipliers mentioned tip the scales from a rare-ish happening to and odds on chance.

I think a small tweak patch recently modified one of the areas that actually logarithmically steps up the chance of a fire and is why we maybe be seeing more.

 

Current Stats

This probably wasn't what you were expecting as an answer? I'm happy to talk you further and show you stacks upon stacks of data if you would like but not on forum.

Also it actually could have been a lucky hit... but really?

 

I hope I've in someway helped, maybe cured insomnia...

 

Norfolk.

 

[The Spud]

A week ago I was being boarded by a guy, and his mate came alongside him and I believe he also insta exploded. Sinking my ship and his friends ship. Took me a while to figure out what had happened. As soon as the boarding was over our ships were all "captured". Never have I seen this since I bought the game in february 2016.

[Norfolk nChance]

what ships Spud may I ask? SoLs?

 

[The Spud]

I was in an indefatigable, got boarded by a pirate frig, and the other guy who exploded was an endymion I think (certainly no SoL). I was in boarding mode so was focussing on the boarding action, when i heard a sissss and the well know bell sound. I thought I got a roundball in my stern, but the guys I was in battle with told me afterwards that the guy who came alongside his mate exploded. I don't assume he would be exploding next to his mate on purpose, these guys weren't amateurs.

Funny thing was when I genuinly (and kindly) asked the french guys if they could enlighten me as to what happened, they were kinda asking me not to start insulting (which I had no intention on doing) was prety funny that all of a sudden they were two ships down and we only lost one.

[dumpert]

33 minutes ago, The Spud said:

A week ago I was being boarded by a guy, and his mate came alongside him and I believe he also insta exploded. Sinking my ship and his friends ship. Took me a while to figure out what had happened. As soon as the boarding was over our ships were all "captured". Never have I seen this since I bought the game in february 2016.

[Norfolk nChance]

OK in my linked post I ramble on about forced Multipliers with Perm Reg and Officer perk combos. If one cannon goes on your lower deck you go into FIRE SHOCK. warning shows top left... you leak because you blew out the porthole and the CREW won't to survival because of the shock. Totally screwed...

The ships you guys are in are not really big enough for a virtual fireship load out. Needs more medium guns.

Keep an eye out see if you overtime just see more fires... Bulletlogs are really useful to see what happen during the fight also

 

Norfolk

[z4ys]

16 minutes ago, dumpert said:

I believe when the fire starts next to the magazine you dont need to be in fire shock. I saw many pavels the hole upper deck on fire in fire shock for more then 5 mins losing armor and later sinking but never exploding. All becuase the fire never reached the magazine.

[Sir Texas Sir]

I been noticing this a lot lately.  Me and JodaSet was fighting Minnow in Bahamas.  He was in an Endymion, Joba H Rattler and I was in a Niagra.  We got his sails down to 50% and just stop taking damage which I assume cause my pen on 9 lbrs longs couldn't pen his mast even though I had well over 3K damage to his sails.  So we worked on him until we have blown out both bow/stern and got his side armor down to zero.   We where prettty messed up (me my armor joba his crew) and wasn't going to move in for a board (I was board fit but one more good hit would sink me).  So we where sitting there waiting on him to sink.   One last stern rake lit him on fire, so we are thinking he will just sink before this becomes anything to worry but we start to back from him.  Than 'BOOM"   He blows up with no fire shock at all.  I know he was low on crew so that prob could of been a reason to blow, but with no fireshock and it was so fast.  Most ships would of sunk before the fire spread and go to the mag.  The results was that all Joba crew was killed with no damage to his ship. My mast was blown off and I was sunk.  Minnow still had crew left which was a surprise to both us and was alive.   He won the fight cause of this. I'm pretty sure he didn't have  a fire ship fitting cause he would of been on fire way before that with all the stern rakes.

Another fight in PvE even in the Bahamas.  We where matched up 7 Pirates vs 9 US players.  Being the better skilled players we where ok with these odds.  We get to fighting and after much good actions my ship starts to take on water and I pull off to try to save it but was to far gone with the last broad side to my empty armor on port side.  We had this in the book as  we had all ready sanked 3 of the US players so it was down to 6 vs 6 and we had one guy about to capture a 4th ships so they would be down one and the others where pretty close to sinking.  Than BOOM.  One of the US players blows up and it kills 9 players.  All those listed as captured where killed by his explosion. Most of them where just crew kills even with good health to the ships left (folks tend to grape more than shoot ball in shallows).   The last two US where close to sinking, but cause of this and the fact Latron was low on crew from the blast we had him retreat and end the fight.   Something is wrong when a ship can instant explode and take out 9 players.   

This was prob the last big fight we brought numbers to shallow PvP event cause we decided if the US can only win by playing dirty than we won't go. Mainly cause they can only fight pirates cause of the US/Brit/Dutch alliances they can't fight any one else in the PvP events.  We get it is a usable tatics, but it seems now when they can't beat us with shear numbers they just bring fire ships and blowing up.   

And yes one of the main reasons we won Savanana port battles was cause we fireshiped the US with one ship.  Making the 25 (US) vs 20 (started 16) Pirates more on equal terms as we where able to board and take out 5 players on the US side right from the start and I think that just put them into shock mode and they crumbled from there.  They do have there uses and I think are handy when you don't have the numbers or in some types of fights.  Don't get me wrong.  Just think a lot of ships that aren't firefitted seems to be blowing up a lot lately and real fast.  Than you got me every time I use one I never get the fire to blow when I need to and end up doing more harm to my team mates than the other team or I just take myself out of the fight lol

[dumpert]

agreed with all your theories, guys. 

just one thing i should add - recently the number of insta-blowing up increased drastically, so i think devs playd with figures, silently, again

[The Spud]

It was a simmilar situation, I never had that happen before and at first I thought it was a bug.

I wonder if IRL a magazine explosion would be as devastating as it is in this game. It could probably mess up the rigging, but to completely destroy 2 hulls (its own hull and the one of the enemy ship) or the entire crew of a ship is a bit optimistic I think. I believe the magazine was also located below the waterline and was well armoured. I would assume most of the explosion force would be propelled upwards as it would be the easiest way to escape. But the devs probably have some historical documentation on explosions in battles and the damage they did.

Will keep an eye out for increased insta explosions, and i'll try to record some data and take screens.

[Norfolk nChance]

Spud,

Prolly Sir Texas is a ya man for that  Navy

 

Bullet logs if possible also give great clues

 

Norf.

 

 

[Yar Matey]

Yawn, let me guess, it was the gankfest in the admiralty event where a bunch of pirates and Swedes got into a battle and then a bunch of British decided to join the pirate side ruining the even match.

4 hours ago, Dozer said:

May i ask if this was during the PVP event last night and the ship was a bellona ? If yes it was me that exploded and yes if was fast. As soon as i saw that i was on fire i turned off survival as i was sinking anyway so i tried to take some of the pirates with me down. But i was in fireshock before i exploded, im pretty sure that the ship was only smoking when it exploded yes

I'm pretty sure this was you Dozer from the explanation of events, I was watching in free view mode the whole time.  He went from right to left, and you exploded with the ship on your left side.  Dozer was in fire shock before exploding.  Usually when a ship is close to death and is lit on fire, it is a pretty good idea to sail away from the ship, which every other ship did except this one that decided to stick around.  It was his fault he lost his ship, he didnt sail away with his buddies.  No sympathy, live and learn from your mistakes instead of QQ on the forums about it.

It worked out in the end because Dozer got the L'Ocean BP because of that battle. 

Edited February 6, 2017 by Yar Matey

[maturin]

2 hours ago, The Spud said:

It was a simmilar situation, I never had that happen before and at first I thought it was a bug.

I wonder if IRL a magazine explosion would be as devastating as it is in this game. It could probably mess up the rigging, but to completely destroy 2 hulls (its own hull and the one of the enemy ship) or the entire crew of a ship is a bit optimistic I think. I believe the magazine was also located below the waterline and was well armoured. I would assume most of the explosion force would be propelled upwards as it would be the easiest way to escape. But the devs probably have some historical documentation on explosions in battles and the damage they did.

Will keep an eye out for increased insta explosions, and i'll try to record some data and take screens.

Historically, detonation of the main magazine meant instant destruction of the entire ship, with few or no survivors.

The 'splash damage' to other ships is probably exaggerated, and I agree that rigging damage and fire hazard would be more likely for ships not in immediate contact with the exploding vessel.

The magazine was located below the waterline, and that was its armor.

[The Spud]

7 minutes ago, maturin said:

Historically, detonation of the main magazine meant instant destruction of the entire ship, with few or no survivors.

The 'splash damage' to other ships is probably exaggerated, and I agree that rigging damage and fire hazard would be more likely for ships not in immediate contact with the exploding vessel.

The magazine was located below the waterline, and that was its armor.

Well exactly, the exploding ship would most certainly be totaly destroyed or at least out of combat. I think a shockwave might rip up the rigging maybe snap a mast, maybe knock the crew against the ground but a hull would probably never be destroyed by it unless the ship is realy realy close.