Regions are Too Important and it is Causing Player Tension:

[Yar Matey]

The current region system with scarce resources along with the regional trims is bad for the game and something must be done to address it fast.

Back when we had the old flag system and we did not have the scarcity of resources nor did we have the regional bonus system for ships, a nation could be completely wiped out to its last port (its capital) and if a dedicated group of players came along, they could rebuild that nation because they were not limited in ship construction and could build equally quality ships as a nation that owned most of the map.  We have smuggler flags so people in beaten down nations could sneak into enemy ports, and trade, and build ships at a free port and work on rebuilding that nation.  

Now that we have a huge scarcity of resources along with regional trims, it is no longer possible for a beaten down nation to rebuild itself.  If the Danish, Swedish, and french were beaten down to just their regional capital, they would have a very hard time building ships and modules due to resource shortages, mostly silver for 4th rates and modules.  On top of the shortages to build ships, they would be stuck with inferior ships because they would not be able to build ships with these overpowered regional trims (namely strong hull).  

Regional bonuses and the scarce resources need to be undone so if a nation is beaten down, players of that nation can rebuild it.  I feel like we have tested the current system enough to realize that it is overall a bad system.

The scarce resources and regional trims are not fine and it needs to be addressed.  I personally would like to see regional trims removed from the game completely, but if we are forced to use them, then you need to make it so regional trims are something built into a ship using a crafted material.  Players need to be able to put strong hull bonus in their ships without an outpost in a strong hull region that is owned by your nation or its allies.  I recommend going back to needing a shipyard to build ships but also needing a specific crafted material only able to craft at a specific region.  This way it becomes a traded commodity and nations without access to specific regions can still build the ships they want, or the other option, remove regional bonuses from the game completely. 

I am also piggybacking off of this topic started by Rediii:  http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/18655-the-result-of-the-current-ressource-and-regional-bonus-distribution/

Also, I posted this suggestion here to solve the regional trim issue:  http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/17996-regional-bonuses-need-a-rework/

 

Edited January 30, 2017 by Yar Matey

[Elric]

I totally agree.  It is frustrating as a small nation that you are not only outnumbered by the opposition, but the opposition have better ships loaded with gold mods as they control all the resources (Live Oak, Silver and Crafting Region) - plus in most cases, they have the blueprints to make the optimum ships (Ag, H rattle, etc) because they win in most battles.  It just becomes the rich get richer and the poor get poorer and drives players away.

[Cmdr RideZ]

If I understood correctly, devs wanted that there are winners and losers, and map resets.

I understood that they want to do it so that when a capital is captured, players in that nation will be puppets for the conqueror for X time.  (If I remember correctly)

I have no idea how they are going to make that motivating.  I still understood that, that is the main design point.

There is also meant to be reason behind conquest, that people want to fight from regions, etc.

I suppose this is the game, even death penalties are designed so that losers are suffering way more than winners.

It is easy for winners to stay motivated, difficult part is how to keep losers motivated.  Devs really should think about this.

To make the modifications you ask, design perspective has to be changed.

Edited January 30, 2017 by Cmdr RideZ

[monk33y]

You gotta be kidding me!

Why don't we just play on the pve server!!! 

What we need is better spread out resources and nations 

[Elric]

6 minutes ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

It is easy for winners to stay motivated, difficult part is how to keep losers motivated.  Devs really should think about this.

This is really the key issue.  On PvP2, we've seen nations pushed back to one port or one region many times - and when that happens, that nations loses most of its players. 

• How many change nations?  Some
• How many leave the game?  Many

This is fundamentally the biggest issue with the game today - it's one thing to be defeated in even PvP contests, but once you lose the resources and crafting capability to build competitive ships, you lose the players - and many of them permanently.

[Jean Ribault]

Some of the forum contributors might respond to this by saying I told ya so, pointing to the 1-Durability system as the answer.  One of their reasons is it makes it more about skill than the ship crafted.  But that doesn't solve this problem, it only lessens the impact.  Back before we had smuggler flags it was just as difficult if you were in a nation that was crippled.  Then we got the smuggler flag and all of a sudden had the ability to craft ships of your choosing again.  I remember the days the tiny French nation had a load of gold ships for sale.  Now with this regional bonus system we went backwards again.

The fallout is this, either:

- people quit or change nations, or

- they cheat by using an alt to craft, and then trade it over

[Jean Ribault]

3 minutes ago, Rickard said:

i have said it many times ! make the egions smaller (3 ports max) and make all port be capturable and part of the conquest to take a region

Don't misinterpret my response here, because I agree with you on your comment.  But unfortunately I don't see any way that prevents the problem the OP is pointing out.  All it does is delay it a little longer; it provides more battles so it takes longer to get to the same point.  In fact, before we used to be able to be beat down to 1 port.  With regions we get 5 or 6 ports.  With your suggestion of smaller regions, once we're beat down we now are down to low number of ports again, 3 max in your suggestion.

[Sir Texas Sir]

1 hour ago, ElricTheTwo said:

This is really the key issue.  On PvP2, we've seen nations pushed back to one port or one region many times - and when that happens, that nations loses most of its players. 

• How many change nations?  Some
• How many leave the game?  Many

This is fundamentally the biggest issue with the game today - it's one thing to be defeated in even PvP contests, but once you lose the resources and crafting capability to build competitive ships, you lose the players - and many of them permanently.

Yep and it doesn't help the same two nations won't break there allegiance. It's sad when the two largest nations haven't fought each other since AUG on the old system.  Not a single port battle has been done between US and Brits and they have the largest population and number of regions and all they do is attack the small nations or well gang up against what pirates are left.  Which is pretty much the only force strong enough to keep them at bay and even we lost almost all our regions to them at the start when we weren't even being aggressive this time around.  Really think it's time every one just gangs up on them.  Hell  I know some Brits and US players that want to fight each other too, but can't cause the old timer care bear players won't break the alliance.  They seem to want to play PvE on a PvP server.

[van der Clam]

Regions are why we fight...for the bonus, but mostly for the resources. I still suggest each nation's home port should have that nation's bonus. And if they duplicate that nation's bonus elsewhere, that it should be weaker at only 80% or 75% of the bonus. It would require devs to create national bonus for those missing one, but there are tons of player suggestions on this.
This would leave us fighting over only resources and possible other nation's weaker bonuses. 

[Sir Texas Sir]

45 minutes ago, van der Decken said:

Regions are why we fight...for the bonus, but mostly for the resources. I still suggest each nation's home port should have that nation's bonus. And if they duplicate that nation's bonus elsewhere, that it should be weaker at only 80% or 75% of the bonus. It would require devs to create national bonus for those missing one, but there are tons of player suggestions on this.
This would leave us fighting over only resources and possible other nation's weaker bonuses. 

Ya'll fight?  When was the last time any one took a region that wasn't a small nation for it's resources?  Ya'll don't fight over them, you use each others.  If you stop the alliance and actually fight over stuff than it would mean more.   

[Yar Matey]

7 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Ya'll fight?  When was the last time any one took a region that wasn't a small nation for it's resources?  Ya'll don't fight over them, you use each others.  If you stop the alliance and actually fight over stuff than it would mean more.   

Nobody can afford to fight because resources are too rare, and fighting an ally could potentially mean the loss of a region to build a ship.  Its really dumb.  The game encourages large alliances by design.  On PvP1 attacks from one alliance against the other is usually done to try and deprive that nation of resources or a region where the enemy can build strong hull ships. 

[van der Clam]

4 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Ya'll fight?  When was the last time any one took a region that wasn't a small nation for it's resources?  Ya'll don't fight over them, you use each others.  If you stop the alliance and actually fight over stuff than it would mean more.   

You can quit your alliance rant on both server's threads any day now. It's getting older than dirt. It is a game mechanic. It is legal. It is allowed by the devs. It is what happens, whether you like it or not. It's part of the game. If you don't like it, go play another game. Or do something in game about it, like leave the rats and go join a small nation.
If you want us to accept your rat mechanics and accept you're a "nation" like the devs say you are, yet you're not like any of the other nations, then accept that alliances are a game mechanic.

[Jean Ribault]

This conversation is now making me laugh, because it's proving the OP's title is true............

"Regions are Too Important and it is Causing Player Tension"

  

[Yar Matey]

36 minutes ago, Jean Ribault said:

This conversation is now making me laugh, because it's proving the OP's title is true............

"Regions are Too Important and it is Causing Player Tension"

  

All one needs to do is look in national news and see the flame wars going on to see that the current system is creating player tension.  No nation likes to be on the losing side, but when you are on the losing side and lose your ability to craft ships, and lose your ability to get resources through silver mines and such, it demoralizes you from wanting to play the game or you simply re-roll as a winning nation. 

Edited January 30, 2017 by Yar Matey

[Sir Texas Sir]

51 minutes ago, Yar Matey said:

Nobody can afford to fight because resources are too rare, and fighting an ally could potentially mean the loss of a region to build a ship.  Its really dumb.  The game encourages large alliances by design.  On PvP1 attacks from one alliance against the other is usually done to try and deprive that nation of resources or a region where the enemy can build strong hull ships. 

Not on PvP2, they can get all the resources they want there.  It's not like they can't use each others regions and such.

 

[Sir Texas Sir]

55 minutes ago, van der Decken said:

You can quit your alliance rant on both server's threads any day now. It's getting older than dirt. It is a game mechanic. It is legal. It is allowed by the devs. It is what happens, whether you like it or not. It's part of the game. If you don't like it, go play another game. Or do something in game about it, like leave the rats and go join a small nation.
If you want us to accept your rat mechanics and accept you're a "nation" like the devs say you are, yet you're not like any of the other nations, then accept that alliances are a game mechanic.

You still didn't answer my question.  I only have an issue with PvP2 alliances as I don't play on PvP1 so now cluse what your talking about, but again when was the last time any of the big three attacked any one other than small nations?   Sounds like ya'll are a bunch of yellow belly cowards that can't fight a fight unless you have folks out numbered.  Oh and how is that war going for your Nation?   Are we going to have round two tonight of us sinking a bunch of your ships?

 

All I hear from you is QQ we can't fight the pirates cause they have better players so we have to get our big brothers US to fight our fights for us.  When in fact we have about the same numbers as Dutch do.  Maybe if ya'll weren't a bunch of care bear PvErs than you would win an even fight once in a while.

 

Again I kinda want them to merge the servers cause all the guys on PvP2 wouldn't have a clue what to do and won't be safe at all.

[van der Clam]

When was the last time you shut up about bitching on the alliances? How many posts do you have repeating your same old cry? I think you're up to about 32 now? or is it 32,000? Everyone wants the alliance system reworked. There's no reason to puke your thoughts out about alliances on every post that isn't even the topic.

 

Edited January 30, 2017 by van der Decken

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

If I understood correctly, devs wanted that there are winners and losers, and map resets.

I understood that they want to do it so that when a capital is captured, players in that nation will be puppets for the conqueror for X time.  (If I remember correctly)

I have no idea how they are going to make that motivating.  I still understood that, that is the main design point.

There is also meant to be reason behind conquest, that people want to fight from regions, etc.

I suppose this is the game, even death penalties are designed so that losers are suffering way more than winners.

It is easy for winners to stay motivated, difficult part is how to keep losers motivated.  Devs really should think about this.

To make the modifications you ask, design perspective has to be changed.

But.. Like many other design aspects they went away from the total conquest and map reset idea and thankful for that.. What we now are left with is just a broken system that doesn't function because the underlying idea behind it is wobbling from one extreme to another..

[Sir Texas Sir]

1 hour ago, van der Decken said:

When was the last time you shut up about bitching on the alliances? How many posts do you have repeating your same old cry? I think you're up to about 32 now? or is it 32,000? Everyone wants the alliance system reworked. There's no reason to puke your thoughts out about alliances on every post that isn't even the topic.

 

QQ MORE?

Elric brought up PvP2 and you made a comment about it and I corrected that ya'll don't fight over regions  so you brought it up next.  Sounds like your being a bit salty after once again a failed attampt at attacking us and we sunk your guys.   We are just waiting for big brother to come bail ya'll out.  Again DUTCH DECLARED WAR ON US.

 

Now back to the topic. I think if they do region resets once in a while it would help stimulate things.  Really need something to stimulate in game player trade too.  I try to get folks to ship to ports I need them at and buy them so they can make money.  It's easier to do one a smaller server player base, but I'm sure PvP1 could do the same if the devs worked say contracts better.  Like it would be nice if we can see what contracts are in each ports and than we can take those cargo to that port and fill them,

2 hours ago, Yar Matey said:

All one needs to do is look in national news and see the flame wars going on to see that the current system is creating player tension.  No nation likes to be on the losing side, but when you are on the losing side and lose your ability to craft ships, and lose your ability to get resources through silver mines and such, it demoralizes you from wanting to play the game or you simply re-roll as a winning nation. 

There really needs to be a system to prevent total crush.  I agree that every nation should be able to keep more than just one region as there only region if crushed down to that point.  Since folks don't use the alliance system to help them they never get up and back to any decent numbers and become dead.  PvP2 is like that and eventually PvP1 can become like that.   We have seen some many players simply leave or go to the bigger nations and than they leave cause they get bored cause than there is no one to fight cause every one is on the same team. 

[Guest]

Can't have meaningful RvR/PvP without meaningful assets, having regions of actual importance is way more interesting than all the useless ports that we had before that, which were little more than just bragging rights and buffers.

[saintjacktar]

Another bleeing heart post hahaha The title of this post slays me! XD first thing the Danes did when rare resource regions came was take Live Oak Port on US East coast and they ve lost  it  and now its a problem hahaha XD should rename this thread "resource region too important and its causing Dane sadness" XD much more relevant title

[Yar Matey]

1 hour ago, saintjacktar said:

Another bleeing heart post hahaha The title of this post slays me! XD first thing the Danes did when rare resource regions came was take Live Oak Port on US East coast and they ve lost  it  and now its a problem hahaha XD should rename this thread "resource region too important and its causing Dane sadness" XD much more relevant title

Firstly, I am not a Dane.  And secondly, I do not think the current mechanics of being able to completely destroy a nation to the point where they are forced to craft inferior ships and cannot even get access to recourses because of the extreme scarcity is game breaking.  

I was very vocal about how damaging the fine wood system was to the game forcing the Danes to attack one of the only 2 ports that produced it.  I posted many times about how fine woods throttled ship production way too much.

Keep in mind I agree 100% with the US right to schedule port battles during their prime time, and was always strongly opposed to port battle limitations and the whole night flip BS.  I do not agree with the Danes position on many topics and I also find many of their posts to be overly dramatic.

Also, your post adds no meaningful discussion to the OP and is intended to spill over the drama in national news into general discussion.  I will remind you that your troll post may be acceptable in national news, but is not acceptable outside of that forum section.

Edited January 31, 2017 by Yar Matey

[saintjacktar]

41 minutes ago, Yar Matey said:

Firstly, I am not a Dane.  And secondly, I do not think the current mechanics of being able to completely destroy a nation to the point where they are forced to craft inferior ships and cannot even get access to recourses because of the extreme scarcity is game breaking.  

I was very vocal about how damaging the fine wood system was to the game forcing the Danes to attack one of the only 2 ports that produced it.  I posted many times about how fine woods throttled ship production way too much.

Keep in mind I agree 100% with the US right to schedule port battles during their prime time, and was always strongly opposed to port battle limitations and the whole night flip BS.  I do not agree with the Danes position on many topics and I also find many of their posts to be overly dramatic.

Also, your post adds no meaningful discussion to the OP and is intended to spill over the drama in national news into general discussion.  I will remind you that your troll post may be acceptable in national news, but is not acceptable outside of that forum section.

Ah good some genuine dialogue my apologies, I agree the fine woods was absolutely a mistake however i am of the posistion that the resource war that erupted because of  it actually provided more content not just in RvR  but also for econ players as well, whilst I recognize the placement of Live Oak was accurate to its growth region I would agree that it is too scarce a resource for there to be only 2 producing ports, furthermore the Gulf of Mexico area has become stagnate and worthless, i propose then perhaps some be placed in the Alabama/Mississippi region and/or on The Mexican coast, it is also harvested in these regions or alternatively there could be a wood type on par with Live Oak to "spread the love" so to speak. Lastly thank for supporting the US playerbases right to exist within this server.

Kindest regards,

Edited January 31, 2017 by saintjacktar

[Guest]

See how we can have sensible discussions if we don't start the conversation with infectious piles of garbage?

[Guest]

6 hours ago, saintjacktar said:

Another bleeing heart post hahaha The title of this post slays me! XD first thing the Danes did when rare resource regions came was take Live Oak Port on US East coast and they ve lost  it  and now its a problem hahaha XD should rename this thread "resource region too important and its causing Dane sadness" XD much more relevant title

I don't actually consider the loss of Savannah an issue.. The live oak is not an end all or be all ressource, and btw most of us already have more than enough - and with all the alts floating around it's not that difficult to get more either..