New perk 'Signaling' broken

[Liq]

A friend and me were hunting in OW, both in Surps, no smuggler tags. We saw a french player connie. My friend who had the new signaling perk tagged it, while we both were right next to it. But only he got dragged in while I stayed outside and couldnt join the battle. 
Then we tried it again on AI fleets to see if it was the perk or if it had something to do with the enemy player. First, my friend with the perk tagged an ai. Same result, he got pulled in battle while I was left out outside.
Then I tagged an AI ship, without the perk. This time we both got dragged in.
Conclusion -> the new Signaling perk is broken and needs a hotfix :-)

[Sir Texas Sir]

Need a third person to see if some one tags and still stay open or the one with the perk has to do the tagging.

 

[IndianaGeoff]

7 minutes ago, Hodo said:

Good testing is needed. That is what we are here for.

Or we can whine about it and threaten to quit without testing.

[Pada]

Got this sorted out with an admin already, they are aware of it and looking for a solution.

[Rychu Karas]

Antiganking perk I like it: ]

[Pada]

8 minutes ago, Rychu Karas said:

Antiganking perk I like it: ]

Well it works the other way around aswell ^^ Like when we tagged a Trinc with a Bellona friend in 2 Reno's and the Bellona got excluded and could not join. So it was 2 vs 1.

[Liq]

59 minutes ago, Rychu Karas said:

Antiganking perk I like it: ]

well we were the ones that tagged the connie. if the connie had the perk and tagged us im pretty sure we both would have gotten dragged in

[Rychu Karas]

yes i catch it, It was more ironic. Anyway u r a good player, probbaly your mate also... so You had opportunity to give nice proper even fight

[Sir Texas Sir]

I had to F11 a battle today during the PvP event.  Had it on and the battle stayed open for one more but the other persons with that person couldn't get in.  Even with the one extra player we where way out number and BR was no where close to equal.  So not sure if it's the event zone or it doesn't match up as close as you would like with the BR's before it closes.

 

[Vaan De Vries]

That's what you get when trying to bring magical portals opening and closing battles based upon some fairness principle. There are Maxwell's demons in physics and there are "Admin's demons" in NA now...

I imagine during British-American 1812 war commandor of British squadron saying "FFS, why can't my whole squadron pursue this USS President??!! Why only HMS Endymion got dragged in? and what the hell is this BR IS NOT EVEN message in the middle of the ocean?!". 

Devs better stop playing with fair/unfair and simply allow enter to anyone for 1-2 mins or insta-close battle like it was before but with pulling everybody inside the circle. 

[Todbringer]

13 hours ago, Hodo said:

Well whining is a lot easier.

Got some cheese ready that will go great with that whine. ;p

[Jean Ribault]

18 hours ago, IndianaGeoff said:

Or we can whine about it and threaten to quit without testing.

 

Ah, I agree wholeheartedly.  This is the best course.

[Vaan De Vries]

57 minutes ago, Hodo said:

Because, people complained about the 2 min timers, saying it was to short.   Others said it was to long.   So the devs put in a visual system, the outer ring IS 2 min sail into the wind to the center ring while sailing into the wind.

I will welcome both systems but without magical perks designed to bend rules of the system.

Like signalling perk. Even if it wasn't broken - it shouldn't exist...

[admin]

there are some bugs with the perk..fixing them one by one. 

[Sir Texas Sir]

12 hours ago, Otto Kohl said:

How about fixing broken Pirate Perk ? We are waiting for over a month.

I don't really think it's bronken, I think it just needs something else cause now it's not really worth the 6 points compared to the hunter perk.  Maybe give it a bonus crew or something too with that speed.

 

[Yar Matey]

This perk just turned our semi even fight in the PvP event area into a grossly outmatched fight where we all lost our ships.  Enemy had double our ships and we were completely overwhelmed.  2 of our ships were Bellonas, everything else was 5th and 4th rate.  The enemy managed to get double the ships in the battle that were all 4th and 5th rates.  There is no way the Bellona should have a 400 BR, and a 2nd rate should have 450.  The BR on the line ships needs to be reduced to prevent this from happening.  

 

[TommyShelby]

58 minutes ago, Yar Matey said:

This perk just turned our semi even fight in the PvP event area into a grossly outmatched fight where we all lost our ships.  Enemy had double our ships and we were completely overwhelmed.  2 of our ships were Bellonas, everything else was 5th and 4th rate.  The enemy managed to get double the ships in the battle that were all 4th and 5th rates.  There is no way the Bellona should have a 400 BR, and a 2nd rate should have 450.  The BR on the line ships needs to be reduced to prevent this from happening.  

 

In PvP events battles stay open for something like 5 minutes (Not sure if its 2 or 5 minutes, but something like that).

[Yar Matey]

15 hours ago, TommyShelby said:

In PvP events battles stay open for something like 5 minutes (Not sure if its 2 or 5 minutes, but something like that).

If this is the case, then there are definitely BR limits in place preventing too much stacking on one side.  But somehow, our battle against the pirates turned into a stupid gankfest because a bunch of British were able to join on the pirates side.  We had 2 Bellonas, its the only thing I can think of that would allow the pirates to get more players on their side. 

The match up was 2 pirate frigates, an Endymion, an Agamemnon and 2 Bellona's versus 12 assorted 4th and 5th rates.  Im sorry, but the Bellona is simply not that good anymore with the new stern raking mechanics.  The frigates cut the Bellona's crew in half within 5 minutes and my Agamemnon was down to 200 crew in a matter of minutes as well.  2 5th or 4th rates vs 1 3rd or 2nd rate is no longer an even match.  Line ships are simply not that good anymore to justify the BR's that they currently have. 

I even had Liquicity demasted a few minutes into the battle forcing him to escape. 

Edited February 6, 2017 by Yar Matey

[TommyShelby]

58 minutes ago, Yar Matey said:

If this is the case, then there are definitely BR limits in place preventing too much stacking on one side. 

Afaik there is no limits. 

I've had a 2v3 turn into a 2v17. (2 Frigates vs Frigates + SoL). 

Whether or not SoL should have their BR changed is a different matter entirely. I'd suggest making a new topic about it so it can be discussed without derailing the topic used atm.

[Yar Matey]

15 minutes ago, TommyShelby said:

Afaik there is no limits. 

I've had a 2v3 turn into a 2v17. (2 Frigates vs Frigates + SoL). 

Whether or not SoL should have their BR changed is a different matter entirely. I'd suggest making a new topic about it so it can be discussed without derailing the topic used atm.

On the contrary, kind sir.  I believe the discussion of BR is important and applies, because the purpose of the BR lockouts with signaling is to promote fair fights, and in the PvP event I have only ever been able to join the lower BR side.  

Granted I am not exactly sure how these mechanics are working, but I am now of the opinion that these mechanics should all be removed and all battles should close instantly in OW combat.

[TommyShelby]

The Discussion of BR is surely important, i'm not saying otherwise. 

However this topic is about the Signaling Perk, not the PvP Event RoE nor the BR of different ships. 

I am of the same opinion as you when it comes to closing battles instantly, even during PvP event. (Except if you have Signaling perk ofcourse). 
- Currently you can join any side of a battle during PvP event, even the side which has the advantage in BR. Otherwise my 2v3 would never have turned into a 2v17

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

2 hours ago, Wraith said:

I say kill signalling and all other BR-based RoE dead. Instead, shrink the pull circle back to something resembling engagement distance, but leave battles open say 15 minutes, but just make battle joining occur in the equivalent battle position where the player was when the swords appeared in the OW for them. Combine this with the simple rule that you must be on the OW and have no join timer when the crosses occur (so no jumping out of battle or port just before X appears) and this is the only RoE you need.

Technically this is feasible (I already have the database and query mechanisms outlined), allows for people joining late and satisfies the desire for people to be able to reinforce battles from distance without creating magical, teleport-into-the-middle-o'-battle mechanics. It simplifies the RoE and makes them always consistent and not dependent on perks. 

So there's only sword icons if the player is already deployed at sea. Ones previously observed will be "lost" once the player enters a port. Sounds reasonable.

So the entry point for the battle would be at the far edge of the Tag circle. Sounds reasonable.

15 minutes in average speed of 11 knots in the OW equals >250km !?

view distance of sails in the OW is roughly 50km ( you can stand at the tip of Cape Fear and see the sail show up coming out of Wilmington ), at bad speed takes about 3 - 4 minutes to reach it

[Teutonic]

I don't mind Wraith's proposal, but I would bring it down to 5 minutes - back to the original battle timer. People had more then enough time to join the battle if they were within the area back then.