[Poll] How to make Naval Action fun in the short-run...

[Black Spawn]

One of my last attempts to try and get some insights.

Due to the lack of info what the devs are actually considering at the moment, I tried to adress the issues not 100% somewhat coming in the next patch.

Mostly based on the constructive suggestions of Lord Vicous, which post to this day has not had any official feedback. But also points found in various discussions all over the forum.

This is not to give suggestions for features in the long-run but for making NA interesting again in the current state, only requiring somewhat tweaking and to give the devs a somewhat overview of the plebs thinking.

This shall NOT be a platform for the issues on

• RvR & Hostility
• Diplomatics
• Pirate Nation Rework
• Crafting Rework

but rather the "simple" things.

Edit: Trying to show "what" can be touched again (retrospective the last patches) to bring NA back to its old glory NOT specifically "how" it has to be touched to make it better in the future.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Black Spawn
Title edited

[Elouda]

Some thoughts on the Wood Distribution part;

Live Oak

Based on this map, add Live Oak production to Texas and San Marcos regions in the Gulf of Mexico.

Bermuda Cedar

This one is harder, because there is no other proper source for it. Instead, I suggest adding White Cedar as a near equivalent. This would be located in Florida Occidental, and maybe Louisiane and North Carolina.

WC could either be a straight up copy, or perhaps given the current BC stats, and BC would change to be 2% speed (instead of 2.5%) and 2.5% health (described as almost as strong as oak).

Alternatively, nuke Bermuda.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Elouda

[BallsOfSteel]

No one want to commit any more time and effort since we are about to get wiped,

Many (not myself) have put in a lot of work and never experienced starting from scratch.

I fear unless some redeemables are offered up for all the work, hours and testing many will not return. Preferable to wipe a month before release if not offering anything for the testers other than xp redemption.

 

Crafting is almost impossible given how hard it is to gather resources within a reasonable timeframe. hours of sailing simply burning up time I do not have 

PB are now virtually impossible for those not in prime EU timezone, we need a flag system for 24hr raids on ports.

Maginot lines needs nerfing

I expect war supplies will be nerfed to include only 50% of hostility

We will wait and see on events but essentially only 30 pers getting anything means most will not participate given time restraints, dead mans chest event woul have been fine if spawn spread over 24 hr period.

 

Ill continue to logging in craft and log out  and maybe a small battle here and there whislt sailing past fleets of 9santis or more.

No problem with single dura ships as long as you can craft all upgrades including crew ones to replace when ship lost or better still allocate lives to those upgrades similar to officers.

 

 

Edited November 29, 2016 by BallsOfSteel

[Koltes]

@Black Spawn Sorry, your poll missing some key elements that must be there too. Those elements have been slowly coming to light by few players now, but you are not listing them. I will vote if you include the following:

 

1. Crafting I: Fine Woods

Remove fine woods of one type. Instead intro quality goods for each quality of the ship built. Green for green, blue for blue etc. The better the quality the rarer the drop. So people will craft and sail whats available. Lower quality will become more usable and will be seen more in the OW

 

2. Crafting II: Regional Bonus

Remove regional bonus from where you craft the ship - it makes no sense. Introduce regional bonus to timber. Any timber gathered from Baracoa country will give Build Strength Bonus. Any timber from Les Cayes gives gives Strong Rig Bonus. Gather the right resources for the bonuses you want and build anywhere you like

 

3. Crafting III: Wood distribution

The answer is in question number 1. The higher quality wood should have rarer drop rate. To the point when gold is so rare it takes weeks for one crafter to get enough to build 1st rate so larger ships of exceptional quality are definitely a combined effort.

 

4. OWM PvP I: Fortifications

All coastal defenses needs to be removed. They are a "quick fix" that cause more disbalance. Instead intro coastal AI patrols that attack players who's hostility level is high (yes intro player hostility for his actions ala EVE aggression timer, Assassins Creed Black Flag hostility level etc). The should be no timer for entering port battles. The battle instance is only in instance to fight the lag of the open world. Its it still a battle in the OW. No timer and anyone can join anytime. Make players getting out from battle instance not were they entered, but were they exited.

 

5. OWM PvP II: Battletimer

5 minutes max. Thats enough to take a dump or get a beer or have a ciggi. Can't log out from battle screen. If game is closed your ship gets out of combat immediately and 2 min timer starts counting before it log off. During this time anyone is free to attack and cap it. This will stop all abuse of the current system

 

6. OWM PvP III: Ships Dura

Dura needs to be removed but ship death needs to be redone.
When killed by AI ship reappear as wreck in nearest port and cost extra gold to rebuild. Maybe extra mats, but no crafting level required to repair. There is no dura, so death from AI is unlimited.

When killed by other player the ship is gone - 1 dura.

 

7. OWM I: AI Fleets size

Fleet size needs to be crew dependent. You can only have fully crewed ships in the fleet to sail out of the port. When you cap a ship you can teleport it from battle screen from any of your ships. You have to cap it and transfer crew. Undercrewed fleet should act accordingly. You cant magically get your extra crew from air no matter your rank. You need to transfer crew from your own ships. Ships needs to be able to carry marines that are not there for expense of the crew, but extra people on board (over crewing ship was not uncommon especially among pirates). When need arise those marines can join crew.

 

8. OWM II: AI Fleets frequency

Currently make no sense. They just there like New York.

They need to have a purpose. If there are traders, they need to carry some good loot and have decent protection, so attacking AI fleet and risking your ships makes worth while. Military patrol AI fleet needs to response to player hostility level (as per above) and chase you down to boundaries of the country. Patrolling fleet are just on a route (1-2 fleets sailing back and forth). But once player is attacked in the region after 2-5 minutes Fleet receives message and start sailing towards the player hostility event. it might take another few minutes to get there. The higher nation influence in the region the stronger the AI fleet in the area.

 

9. OWM III: mission rewards

Current missions makes no sense on PVP server. Trying to force player to do PVE to raise hostility so they can get organised PVP is bad mechanics and killed conflict in the game evidently turning PVP servers into PVE haven. Missions needs to be progressive. Get there find and kill specific trader, he will drop next mission, go there kill next level and then next level etc etc. Each level gets harder and more rewards. Ultimate prize for doing number of missions and completing the quest is specific reward like paint or gold upgrade or BP drop.

 

10. OWM IV: PvP rewards

- PVP kills needs to give more more experience
- Your reward is players ship and everything that was on it including regular upgrades.
- Some percentage of the crew will want to join you to save their lives.
 

 

 

[Sir Texas Sir]

4 hours ago, Elouda said:

Some thoughts on the Wood Distribution part;

Live Oak

Based on this map, add Live Oak production to Texas and San Marcos regions in the Gulf of Mexico.

Bermuda Cedar

This one is harder, because there is no other proper source for it. Instead, I suggest adding White Cedar as a near equivalent. This would be located in Florida Occidental, and maybe Louisiane and North Carolina.

WC could either be a straight up copy, or perhaps given the current BC stats, and BC would change to be 2% speed (instead of 2.5%) and 2.5% health (described as almost as strong as oak).

Alternatively, nuke Bermuda.

Would be nice if there was more source, but my take is that any region that has a rare wood like Live Oak or Bermuda Cedar shouldn't give a regional bonus for crafting in that region.  That means you have to ship the wood some where else and gives folks chance to capture that trader on the open waters with the goods in them.  I did just look up live oak and it is also found in Virginia to Florida and west along the Gulf Coast to Louisiana and Mexico so yah it could be found in other places.  Mahogany is in Texas right now so you could pick something more south to give a reason for folks to fight over the Gulf of Mexico area more.

Right now Bermuda has a regional speed bonus which would make making ships out of this really fast for an all ready fast wood.  Again if you limit rare woods regions to not have any crafting bonus folks will have to ship this wood and the fine version to other places and gives other nations chance to capture there ships and get the wood for them selves.  I believe a clan mate did exactly this by capturing a bunch of British traders just out side of Bermuda and they had cedar and fine cedar in there hull so he's got a nice little stock pile now.

As for the fine wood I don't mind the actual crafting resources for the ships. I just don't like the way we have to get fine woods.   We get so much extra common wood that we won't use them for pretty much just wood frames and can't build that many ships for the life of us.  So why don't we make a new building called LUMBER YARD or SAW MILL.   When you have to take those logs and you can convert them into fine woods.  So say every 100 logs gets you 1 fine log.  This will give you a sink for those logs and maybe a sink for some labor hours.  Make it fairly cheap so that you can get some new players to convert your logs for you or even they can be in the lumber business.   Compass wood on the other hand I don't mind being a small percentage drop when you harvest your woods as that is really what it is.  It's not one type of wood, it's a certain curve or wood that is best used to build certain things.

[Black Spawn]

7 hours ago, koltes said:

@Black Spawn Sorry, your poll missing some key elements that must be there too. Those elements have been slowly coming to light by few players now, but you are not listing them.

That is why I specifically wrote:

Quote

This is not to give suggestions for features in the long-run but for making NA interesting again in the current state, only requiring somewhat tweaking [...]

I like your gathered ideas, but most of them require new or changed mechanics.

The ones I proposed should just give an overview of what can be done with "simple" things to bypass the time till either more permanent solutions or the wipe and especially what the players stance is on them - no advice on numbers or specific solutions given.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Black Spawn

[Koltes]

3 hours ago, Black Spawn said:

That is why I specifically wrote:

I like your gathered ideas, but most of them require new or changed mechanics.

The ones I proposed should just give an overview of what can be done with "simple" things to bypass the time till either more permanent solutions or the wipe and especially what the players stance is on them - no advice on numbers or specific solutions given.

Thats why I wrote that you also missing other points that were discussed and getting popularity among players. This way you poll is not one sided and suggested it to be edited and include those I mention.

Edited November 30, 2016 by koltes

[Koltes]

3 hours ago, Black Spawn said:

I like your gathered ideas, but most of them require new or changed mechanics.

 

Not really mate. Most of it is just twitching the current mechanics. Walking away from quality ships like they proposing is really all new mechanics. It might work, but we didnt fully test the system there is there now. We can jump the ship for another 5 years and still looking for that "perfect" system.

[Rebel Witch]

Nooooo,, it looks like we are going to be stuck with multi dura ships i was so hoping they would give 1 dura for all ships a chance. I dont understand why this game, the devs, the players, they want a realistic sailing ship game but they want nine lives for a ship???? I do not understand that logic. 

PvP is so much more exciting and gratifying when you stand to lose something. Not only that, but going to 1 dura for all ships would benefit crafters because ships would cost 1/5th the material to build. 

 

Come on give it a try, we are in testing after all!!! For all ships not just 1st rates.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Rebel Witch

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

I stand behind'ya Witch capn'

[Sir Texas Sir]

1 hour ago, Rebel Witch said:

Nooooo,, it looks like we are going to be stuck with multi dura ships i was so hoping they would give 1 dura for all ships a chance. I dont understand why this game, the devs, the players, they want a realistic sailing ship game but they want nine lives for a ship???? I do not understand that logic. 

PvP is so much more exciting and gratifying when you stand to lose something. Not only that, but going to 1 dura for all ships would benefit crafters because ships would cost 1/5th the material to build. 

 

Come on give it a try, we are in testing after all!!! For all ships not just 1st rates.

I don't mind the multi dura system cause I remember how hard that learning curve was back in my basic cutter. I swear I prob sanked like 20 times before I won a fight (ok maybe not that many times).   What I would do if we changed it would be make it like this:

SOL's you get 1 dura

Frigates you get 2 dura

Light ships you get 3

 

This way there is still a little of that learning curve allowed so your not completely out of a ship when you sink.   Also to keep folks from abusing the dura system when you sink and if that ship has dura on the current system or any new system you should be sent back to your Capital port for you nations.  With that every player should get there NEWBIE and main NATOIN CAPITAL for free from start.  Still give them the one free port from start, but they start with three pretty much instead of two.   Give us 10 ports cause 8 is just annoying.

 

To make any dura system work better they need to fix MODS.  I think they might be kinda doing this with the new ship crafting system.  Make them perm when you build the ship pretty much with maybe one or two temp mods (think they want to go with three?) to do a little ship tweeking.   Many of the temp mods can be pretty much perm when a ship is crafted if there is more optoins to customize your ships.   

Ship crafting quality:

Grey ships are your basic low of the low.  These are what are sold in the shop.  Nothing special but they have base stats. These along with any capture ships are all ways going to be 1 dura.

Common ships are the first level any one can craft of a ship.  These have regional bonus and adjusted by trim of the player that first craft it.

Master Craft ships are ships that you need per current system 4-5 levels above the level you need to craft a common ship.  These take the fine woods and extra crafting items to make and have above stats from the common ship.

Exceptional/RARE ships that are one time redeemable rewards or prizes for things like PVP/PVE points earned doing missions and special events.   You can only get these ships from those trade in or events.   No more giving out BP's that only a few folks can have in a Nation.  Give those folks a special ship.  The states aren't OP above others or it's maybe an alt variant of a current ship in game.  Master Craft level stats but maybe it has a different skin to it or is exactly like one ship in game but it has a different in game name to it.

AI fleets you can on the Open world only get Grey and Common ships.   With a rare chance that maybe there will be a named NPC in a fleet and he might be in an Master Craft ship.  This gives a rare chance for some one to get one without having to craft.    But it all ways keeps the NPC's ships for the most part below those of any player or that players can craft for them selves.

Exceptional/Rare shisp deeds (for one redeemable ship) can maybe drop from special events/chest.    This could be a good way to introduce new ships into the game that you later will release the BP's for.     Remember these ships will have the same stats as a Master Craft ship of there type.   When you sink cause of loosing all your dura depending the class of the ship it is gone.  This will make some ships prize ships to keep for the collectors when they get them and folks will prize a capture of them.

 

NO MORE SHIP TELEPORTATION AFTER BATTLE.  With the towing mechanic and lets hope it's like the delivery system we need to stop this magic teleportation.  If you capture a ship you need like Koltes said to have the crew to man it.  Keep the 2 AI ship limit and this will mean that folks might not want to take 2 cause they will have to crew and take this capture ship with them back to port.  You will have to put a prize crew on the ship and bring it back to a freeport or one of your nation ports to be able to keep it.  This will cut the abuse of bringing a smaller under crew ship with you and than telporting your SOL back cause you some one is waiting for you out side the battle.  That and gives folks a chance to get there ships back or well there nation can since the player that lost the ship was prob sent back to there capital when sunk/lost.  Yes I know saling around every where sucks.  But hay that is what this game is about and if you can't get back to a port with your prize than maybe you shouldn't of captured it.

Give traders option to pay cargo percentage when they surrender instead of giving up there ships.  POTBS had this and it would be great as it allows a more healthy game when you can just take part of a ships cargo and let the player go on it's way instead of them completely loosing all cargo and ship when they surrender.  They do need to get cargo in fleets working too so you can escort your own traders in fights.

Doctor Perk and Area control should be perks every one gets in game not just cause you have officer perk.  Your officer should be tied to your ships.  One officer per ship.  The ship and it's crew gain XP to get officer perks to reflect the crew and officers expierence on that ship.  New ships start out with green officers and crew.  This way you can have a common ship with a better crew than some one brand new Master Craft ship and that ship might actually sail better.   It will give folks a meaning to use a ship longer even if it's not the top of the line ships.  

Just some of the things I think would make the game better myself.  Every one has there own views and I respect that and maybe some of these would get to the Devs and they will think about them.  Other wise hay who cares.   

Edited November 30, 2016 by Sir Texas SIr

[Black Spawn]

5 hours ago, koltes said:

Not really mate. Most of it is just twitching the current mechanics. Walking away from quality ships like they proposing is really all new mechanics. It might work, but we didnt fully test the system there is there now. We can jump the ship for another 5 years and still looking for that "perfect" system.

Okay let me rephrase it. I was trying to show "what" has to be touched again not "how" it can be touched ( retrospective the last patches) to bring NA back to its old glory.  Hopefully allowing to give last-minute impulses for the coming patch.

But let me come your way and break this down.

1. Crafting I: Fine Woods

Quote

Remove fine woods of one type. Instead intro quality goods for each quality of the ship built. Green for green, blue for blue etc. The better the quality the rarer the drop. So people will craft and sail whats available. Lower quality will become more usable and will be seen more in the OW

• Fine wood should keep the RNG but should be somewhat diversified (common-exeptional)

(will result in crowded storages and requires warehouse changes)

2. Crafting II: Regional Bonus

Quote

Remove regional bonus from where you craft the ship - it makes no sense. Introduce regional bonus to timber. Any timber gathered from Baracoa country will give Build Strength Bonus. Any timber from Les Cayes gives gives Strong Rig Bonus. Gather the right resources for the bonuses you want and build anywhere you like

• mapping the regional bonus to where the good/wood is produced

(which is a new mechanic btw since goods dont have such attributes yet. also will result in crowded storages)

3. Crafting III: Wood distribution

Quote

The answer is in question number 1. The higher quality wood should have rarer drop rate. To the point when gold is so rare it takes weeks for one crafter to get enough to build 1st rate so larger ships of exceptional quality are definitely a combined effort.

This question is generally about the distribution of the wood itself on the map (liveoak etc.)

4. OWM PvP I: Fortifications

Quote

All coastal defenses needs to be removed. They are a "quick fix" that cause more disbalance. Instead intro coastal AI patrols that attack players who's hostility level is high (yes intro player hostility for his actions ala EVE aggression timer, Assassins Creed Black Flag hostility level etc). The should be no timer for entering port battles. The battle instance is only in instance to fight the lag of the open world. Its it still a battle in the OW. No timer and anyone can join anytime. Make players getting out from battle instance not were they entered, but were they exited.

• remove fortifications and replace them with AI patrols attacking hostile players

(will undermine every PvP imo. also is as well sort of a new mechanic and RvR is not part of this poll since it will be reworked already in the coming Patch)

5. OWM PvP II: Battletimer

Quote

5 minutes max. Thats enough to take a dump or get a beer or have a ciggi. Can't log out from battle screen. If game is closed your ship gets out of combat immediately and 2 min timer starts counting before it log off. During this time anyone is free to attack and cap it. This will stop all abuse of the current system

Also not the right poll for that. just showing a direction and no specifics.

6. OWM PvP III: Ships Dura

Quote

Dura needs to be removed but ship death needs to be redone.
When killed by AI ship reappear as wreck in nearest port and cost extra gold to rebuild. Maybe extra mats, but no crafting level required to repair. There is no dura, so death from AI is unlimited.

When killed by other player the ship is gone - 1 dura.

• Ship Dura should be diversified in PvP and PvE but generally 1 Dura (loss in PvP results in -1 / loss against PvE repairable)

7. OWM I: AI Fleets size

Quote

Fleet size needs to be crew dependent. You can only have fully crewed ships in the fleet to sail out of the port. When you cap a ship you can teleport it from battle screen from any of your ships. You have to cap it and transfer crew. Undercrewed fleet should act accordingly. You cant magically get your extra crew from air no matter your rank. You need to transfer crew from your own ships. Ships needs to be able to carry marines that are not there for expense of the crew, but extra people on board (over crewing ship was not uncommon especially among pirates). When need arise those marines can join crew.

I was talking about AI Fleet and not player fleet

8. OWM II: AI Fleets frequency

Quote

Currently make no sense. They just there like New York.

They need to have a purpose. If there are traders, they need to carry some good loot and have decent protection, so attacking AI fleet and risking your ships makes worth while. Military patrol AI fleet needs to response to player hostility level (as per above) and chase you down to boundaries of the country. Patrolling fleet are just on a route (1-2 fleets sailing back and forth). But once player is attacked in the region after 2-5 minutes Fleet receives message and start sailing towards the player hostility event. it might take another few minutes to get there. The higher nation influence in the region the stronger the AI fleet in the area.

again. this is way to complex to put it in one poll question but

• AI fleets should be determined by and increased by hostility

(also new mechanic i guess since fleet-numbers are regulated globaly)

9. OWM III: mission rewards

Quote

Current missions makes no sense on PVP server. Trying to force player to do PVE to raise hostility so they can get organised PVP is bad mechanics and killed conflict in the game evidently turning PVP servers into PVE haven. Missions needs to be progressive. Get there find and kill specific trader, he will drop next mission, go there kill next level and then next level etc etc. Each level gets harder and more rewards. Ultimate prize for doing number of missions and completing the quest is specific reward like paint or gold upgrade or BP drop.

again. not trying to establish a  debate on principles but a general direction.

10. OWM IV: PvP rewards

Quote

- PVP kills needs to give more more experience
- Your reward is players ship and everything that was on it including regular upgrades.
- Some percentage of the crew will want to join you to save their lives.

same as above.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

please go ahead and open separate polls for:

• how should entering port battles work
• how should battle-instances work
• how long should reinfocements be possible and in what way
• how should the battlescreen function
• how should player fleets look like
• how should AI fleets work
• how should missions look like
• how should PvP look like

I would be happy to vote. But those are absolutely not the things i was trying to achieve here but easy chances regarding the short-term. As i said the suggestions you made are legit but more like debates on principles.

agreed?

Edited November 30, 2016 by Black Spawn