war supplies bombing War Supplies Bombing and how to fix it

[Daguse]

As everyone is well aware of the War Supplies Bombing (WSB) is getting out of hand. Last week only 1 out of the 6~ PBs had hostility generated via PVP and PVE missions. Well a lot of people would say its ruining the game, and I tend to agree with them.

So whats the fix you ask?  Well, its a two parter. 

1) Limit the total % of hostility War Supplies can generate. (I believe this is already in discussion.) 

• Set it up so you can drop as may War Supplies as you would like, however only 50 or so % of hostility will be generated from WS. 
• WS will generate hostility separate from other forms of hostility generation. This will allow players to drop WS at any point to increase their hostility. 
  • Dropping WS while a hostility is at 0 will move it to 50~%, dropping at 25~% will move it to 75%, dropping at 45~% will move it to 95%, and so on. 
  • Attacking Missions, PVE, PVP will not disrupted or interfere with the hostility generated from WS. 
  • Defending missions, PVE, PVP can only drive hostility to 0%, see part two on why that is important. 

 

2) Add a time element to War Supplies. 

• In short WS should be a DOT (Damage Over Time) for hostility, say 6-8 hours for the full 50%.
• Set WS to generate the full 75 points over time will remove the possibility of bombing and attackers will need to "defend" the area against players working to reduce hostility. 
  • Dropping 67 WS would take 7 hours to generate 50% hostility. During this time the defending nation would have time to mount a defense and run missions to reduced hostility. 
  • To keep the defending nation from reducing the hostility, the attacking nation would need to perform missions and hunt the defending nations Defense Fleet. 
  • If defending fleet drops hostility to 0%, remaining WS will continue to increase hostility. So if an attacking fleet drops 67 WS and 25% hostility is gained before the defending fleet drops hostility to 0%, the remaining 25% hostility will be gained if no further defensive actions are taken.

 

In short PVP ensues, takes many hours and timezone to generate hostility, everyone is happy and we have RL world peace.... YEAH!!!!

        

Edited November 26, 2016 by Daguse

[Wesreidau]

Require the purchase of a conquest flag for the destination, then plant that flag to open a two hour window in which war supplies are dropped off from the open world.

The problem is that we can't see hostility bombs coming and so we can't react to them.

[Daguse]

12 minutes ago, Wesreidau said:

 

Require the purchase of a conquest flag for the destination, then plant that flag to open a two hour window in which war supplies are dropped off from the open world.

The problem is that we can't see hostility bombs coming and so we can't react to them.

I think you brought up a good point. We don't really know where hostility is building unless you are constantly looking at the map. 

Maybe they can add a PB type warring every time hostility reaching 25/50/75%? Or better yet, toss it in global so you can scroll back and see it. 

[Daguse]

Rickard, Read your post and think you have some good ideas. I think combining the two ideas could be an awesome mechanic. 

 

However my fear is they will remove WS, and well I don't see a need to give up on it just yet. I believe it has a place, we just need to find it. 

 

2 hours ago, Rickard said:

 

 

i agree with you,i myself made a new topic about a overhaul of the conquest system.

let me know what you think.

 

Edited November 26, 2016 by Daguse

[BallsOfSteel]

Hostility over 50% should generate a visual flag under the county in screen when in that county if it is your nations area.

[Daguse]

5 hours ago, BallsOfSteel said:

Hostility over 50% should generate a visual flag under the county in screen when in that county if it is your nations area.

yeah, there needs to be some way of notifying the nation other then just looking at the map all day. 

[Wesreidau]

Its not that. We need to know when a hostility bomb is coming, or else its impossible to get those "sink the invasion fleet" battles war supplies were intended to create.

[Daguse]

But how do you do that? If you set a notification for any war supplies it will just turn in to spam. 

[Guest]

The problem is rather the new PB mechanic - I don't play on the PvE server and as such shouldn't need to do a lot of PvE missions to build hostility.. And the WS doesn't exactly promote the PvP other than PB either.. So my suggestion would be to reintroduce the flags for raiding the non-capitol towns where each town gives a percentage of hostility comparable with the amount of towns in the regions - example: Santo Domingo has 5 towns = 20% hostility creation for each raid.

[Daguse]

2 minutes ago, Bearwall said:

The problem is rather the new PB mechanic - I don't play on the PvE server and as such shouldn't need to do a lot of PvE missions to build hostility.. And the WS doesn't exactly promote the PvP other than PB either.. So my suggestion would be to reintroduce the flags for raiding the non-capitol towns where each town gives a percentage of hostility comparable with the amount of towns in the regions - example: Santo Domingo has 5 towns = 20% hostility creation for each raid.

That is an option, I would like to hear more details. 

With my suggestion, the hope is that players stay in the defending nations waters to prevent the possibility of the defending nation from lowering hostility. This would cause pvp. 

[Bach]

Easier solution is to not have war supplies generate hostility. Instead have them modify the rate of hostility gain or reductions.  That way they may make it faster for ships to fight and gain but they don't replace it.

[Daguse]

9 minutes ago, Bach said:

 

Easier solution is to not have war supplies generate hostility. Instead have them modify the rate of hostility gain or reductions.  That way they may make it faster for ships to fight and gain but they don't replace it.

Hmmm interesting. May need balancing to fine tune the numbers but I think it could be a viable option. 

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Bach said:

Easier solution is to not have war supplies generate hostility. Instead have them modify the rate of hostility gain or reductions.  That way they may make it faster for ships to fight and gain but they don't replace it.

I doubt this would be a viable option as it leaves the numerically smaller factions in a position where they would either have a hard time producing any hostility at all or simply be steamrolled over by numerically larger factions.. Most of the current whining on the forums against the danes atm comes from the fact that PBs req skill and discipline.. something the larger factions sorely lacks and need to build up.. In that way the current PB mechanic works as a force that makes ppl better themselves.. Only issue is the entire lack of PvP and the fact that WS can be dropped at anytime, without warning and in timezones that is decided by the attacker and not the defender - which is one reason why ppl have depopulated the servers atm..

[Daguse]

2 minutes ago, Bearwall said:

 

I doubt this would be a viable option as it leaves the numerically smaller factions in a position where they would either have a hard time producing any hostility at all or simply be steamrolled over by numerically larger factions.. Most of the current whining on the forums against the danes atm comes from the fact that PBs req skill and discipline.. something the larger factions sorely lacks and need to build up.. In that way the current PB mechanic works as a force that makes ppl better themselves.. Only issue is the entire lack of PvP and the fact that WS can be dropped at anytime, without warning and in timezones that is decided by the attacker and not the defender - which is one reason why ppl have depopulated the servers atm..

Well I feel like thats going to be hard any way they do it... US is one of the smaller nations and we find ways to generate hostility, even before bombing. 

As well if you allow nations to "Buff" their hostility generation, that smaller nation would have a bigger punch. 

[Cecil Selous]

Imho war supplies should be something you need for the port battle and raids and not before. I can't get the reason behind the mechanic that you deliver some goods to a port and suddenly you can attack it. I mean, what exactly are war supplies? I imagine something like muskets, cannons, tents and supplies for troops, maybe gold to bribe locals etc etc. 

What if with the introduction of land in port battles and the various capture zones, you need a given number of war supplies to actually capture a port (later you eventually also need troops, which mostly will need those war supplies to operate). In the early starting phase of a port battle the war supplies, which everybody brought with them (look below) can be allocated to a few ships whose main tasks will be the capturing of the zones. Those ships will be full of war supplies and troops so they aren't very efficient at fighting other ships, till they drop them in the capture zones (at land, at forts, inside the main capture zone). The other ships need to defend and protect them (there is the possibility to make large tradeships the most suited ships for this task because they can hold more and thus you have more warships ready to fight the enemy early on in the port battle. Or shallow water ships to reach a capture zone/land troops in the shallows). 

I read many complains that big clans can't really plan port battles anymore since they can't control who will join at port battle at the start because of the warning two days in advance and the risk that anyone who gained hostility points can join (back when we had the flag system, the whole fleet usually sailed with it and it was more planned who would join in the end). So what if you need the hostility points you gain during PVP/PVE in the regions to craft war supplies and war supplies are absolutely needed to enter a port battle. Of course it is also possible to trade war supplies to allies and other friendly players but to craft them you need hostility points first.

 

Just some quick thoughts from me. Obviously they can be utter nonsense but maybe some will like it and can give other and better annotations.

[woodenfish]

War supplies should only reduce hositlity NOT generating it. This machanic is so obviously broken. We now have 7 PBs queued up for exactly the same time. Fair play that they got organised enough to make that happen and got all the supplies together, but come on how could the opposing side have reacted to this? What will happen when they war bomb every region of a nation to create simultaneuos PBs? It's just so obviously broken. Please devs do something about this NOW!!! I love this game and am on almost every day. but I'm now wondering if I can be bothered.

[Guest]

12 hours ago, woodenfish said:

War supplies should only reduce hositlity NOT generating it. This machanic is so obviously broken. We now have 7 PBs queued up for exactly the same time. Fair play that they got organised enough to make that happen and got all the supplies together, but come on how could the opposing side have reacted to this? What will happen when they war bomb every region of a nation to create simultaneuos PBs? It's just so obviously broken. Please devs do something about this NOW!!! I love this game and am on almost every day. but I'm now wondering if I can be bothered.

The devs have allready conceded that something has to be done about WS.. Jeheil had a suggestion to make Warsupplies generate hostility over time and I kinda like that idea.. Yet I don't like the system in general.. Having WS make hostility over time will only force some nations to do excessive PvE to counter hostility creation and thereby reduce the PvP even further.. The key to a good game is the fun factor and I don't recon any of us joined a PvP server for fun and exciting PvE/crafting WS.. 

[Daguse]

12 minutes ago, Bearwall said:

Having WS make hostility over time will only force some nations to do excessive PvE to counter hostility creation and thereby reduce the PvP even further.. 

I don't see how this the case. If the defending nation is running missions to reduce hostility, the attacking nation can then just hop in the mission and kill them. 

The most effective way to generate and reduce hostility in that case would be to hunt the opposing fleet. 

Edited November 29, 2016 by Daguse

[Guest]

Just now, Daguse said:

I don't see how this the case. If the defending nation is running missions to reduce hostility, the attacking nation can then just hop in the mission and kill them. 

True.. But what I would do is - drop 8 bombs and grind the enemy playerbase with senseless PvE for 1 perhaps 2 days and then drop the bombs in towns I really wanted to take and do PvE in those areas.. It'll just become a mindless grinding..

[Daguse]

1 minute ago, Bearwall said:

True.. But what I would do is - drop 8 bombs and grind the enemy playerbase with senseless PvE for 1 perhaps 2 days and then drop the bombs in towns I really wanted to take and do PvE in those areas.. It'll just become a mindless grinding..

So why not pvp? Why not hunt the defending fleet? It would generate more hostility... 

If you are worded about losing the PvP and the points, I understand. Maybe lop side the hostility generated by pvp. Something along the lines of the defending fleet loses 2/3s what the attacking fleet does. So it would become a lot more beneficial for the defending fleet to pvp. 

 

[woodenfish]

13 hours ago, Daguse said:

So why not pvp? Why not hunt the defending fleet? It would generate more hostility... 

If you are worded about losing the PvP and the points, I understand. Maybe lop side the hostility generated by pvp. Something along the lines of the defending fleet loses 2/3s what the attacking fleet does. So it would become a lot more beneficial for the defending fleet to pvp. 

 

But you can't defend in 5 places simultanoeuusly a 2-3am in the morning when 150 players total are on the server and you have no way of knowing before hand that people are coming to that area, because the hostility is 0

Edited November 30, 2016 by woodenfish

[Sir Max Magic]

On 26.11.2016 at 4:18 AM, Daguse said:

As everyone is well aware of the War Supplies Bombing (WSB) is getting out of hand. Last week only 1 out of the 6~ PBs had hostility generated via PVP and PVE missions. Well a lot of people would say its ruining the game, and I tend to agree with them.

So whats the fix you ask?  Well, its a two parter. 

1) Limit the total % of hostility War Supplies can generate. (I believe this is already in discussion.) 

• Set it up so you can drop as may War Supplies as you would like, however only 50 or so % of hostility will be generated from WS. 
• WS will generate hostility separate from other forms of hostility generation. This will allow players to drop WS at any point to increase their hostility. 
  • Dropping WS while a hostility is at 0 will move it to 50~%, dropping at 25~% will move it to 75%, dropping at 45~% will move it to 95%, and so on. 
  • Attacking Missions, PVE, PVP will not disrupted or interfere with the hostility generated from WS. 
  • Defending missions, PVE, PVP can only drive hostility to 0%, see part two on why that is important. 

 

2) Add a time element to War Supplies. 

• In short WS should be a DOT (Damage Over Time) for hostility, say 6-8 hours for the full 50%.
• Set WS to generate the full 75 points over time will remove the possibility of bombing and attackers will need to "defend" the area against players working to reduce hostility. 
  • Dropping 67 WS would take 7 hours to generate 50% hostility. During this time the defending nation would have time to mount a defense and run missions to reduced hostility. 
  • To keep the defending nation from reducing the hostility, the attacking nation would need to perform missions and hunt the defending nations Defense Fleet. 
  • If defending fleet drops hostility to 0%, remaining WS will continue to increase hostility. So if an attacking fleet drops 67 WS and 25% hostility is gained before the defending fleet drops hostility to 0%, the remaining 25% hostility will be gained if no further defensive actions are taken.

 

In short PVP ensues, takes many hours and timezone to generate hostility, everyone is happy and we have RL world peace.... YEAH!!!!

        

 

Agree...but like to add that:

 

War Supply Bombs should generate Hostility only to an ABSOLUTE maximum of 50% !!

If the attacker reached 50% Hostility with whatever method, you cant gain anymore through using of War Supplies !!

 

So War Supplies would be treated as an opener for Hostility to get it to 50%...the rest has to get achieved by PvE or PvP, with PvP should generate double or triple the amount of PvE !

As soon as a Hostility Bomb is dropped anywhere, everyone will get alarmed that there is happening something in this region, the nations have time to react and we get this RvR fights we all want...and maybe a Port battle on top of it

[DreamMaker]

If the WarSupplies bomb will make only 50%, you are left without PB. 

[Daguse]

3 hours ago, woodenfish said:

But you can't defend in 5 places simultanoeuusly a 2-3am in the morning when 150 players total are on the server and you have no way of knowing before hand that people are coming to that area, because the hostility is 0

I agree, that's why the time element is needed. I so even if they generated the first 50% of hostility with missions over several hours, it would still take another 6 - 8 hours for the ws to take full effect. 

[Daguse]

3 hours ago, Sir Max Magic said:

 

Agree...but like to add that:

 

War Supply Bombs should generate Hostility only to an ABSOLUTE maximum of 50% !!

If the attacker reached 50% Hostility with whatever method, you cant gain anymore through using of War Supplies !!

 

So War Supplies would be treated as an opener for Hostility to get it to 50%...the rest has to get achieved by PvE or PvP, with PvP should generate double or triple the amount of PvE !

As soon as a Hostility Bomb is dropped anywhere, everyone will get alarmed that there is happening something in this region, the nations have time to react and we get this RvR fights we all want...and maybe a Port battle on top of it

For the first part, that may be necessary. I would be interested in testing it. 

As for the notification. I'm totally on board for that. It would help drive pvp. As it stands now, ws is just a flag with no notification.