Please, a Briefing on Voting re Alliances/Enemy/War

[HardyKnox]

800+ hours played over last 6 months and I do not understand the Politics function and effects of voting for War/Enemy/Alliance.  Could someone walk me through how it works or provide a link to an explanation, please.

For example:

Couple days ago, US allied with GB and Netherlands. Saw hundreds of votes for continued Alliance with GB.

Heard unofficial chatter that US/GB Alliance about to go down.

This morning, woke up, Discovered GB and US now Enemies.

Questions:

• Is this overnight flip triggered by anti-Alliance Player votes, or lack of Player votes to overcome some time limit on existing Alliances?
• Would some one explain how an Alliance can flip so quickly?  
• What is the weight of each Player's 7 votes up or down?
• What percentage of total Players actually votes each round?
• You do know that many Players are completely unaware of the Politics button, and report never having looked at the Forums?
• And why there is no transition period of "Declining Relations" or "Repairing Relations" before the flip?

Please help me understand this puzzle.

~ HK ~

[Fenris]

On 10.11.2016 at 3:38 PM, Anolytic said:

All your speculations are wrong. This is just part of the conversion from 9 day alliances to 3 week alliances. Admittedly I cannot see the Brit/US/VP politics screens, but considering that the exact same thing is happening to the Swede/Dane/France/Spain alliance I feel safe to assume that the cause is the same:

It's very simple. It is not because you cannot renew active alliances or anything of the sort. It is because the fix to the alliance bug required that alliances were converted temporarily back into 9 day alliances in a 3 week system. Meaning that last voting round GB had 2 alliances expiring - the one with VP and the one with US. The alliance with VP was set to expire after 6 days - so 2 days before the voting round ended, and the alliance with US was set to expire in 9 days as per the old system. In both cases this was 9 days ago, so the VP alliance ended 3 days ago and the US alliance ended this morning. 

For most of last voting round the GB/US alliance was less than 6 days since renewed and therefore in it's second round active. Thus it couldn't be voted back in. Therefore Brit/VP votes were forced towards each other and GB had to renew their alliance with VP unless they had the foresight and organisation to wait for the last 2 days of the voting round where they would have a real choice in the matter. Then 2 days before the voting round, the GB/VP alliance expired, but it was already scheduled to renew at the end of the round. 

According to the history drop down in the politics tab this is what happened. The GB/VP alliance was renewed on the 9th. It was then renewed for 3 weeks and not 9 days, meaning that it is now fixed to fit with the new system and in 1 week you will be able to vote to renew it so that you can renew it 1 week before it expires. Provided alliances follow the old rules. Otherwise you will be able to renew it in 2 weeks, which is just in time to renew it before it ever expires. Either way it should cause no problem again unless of course other new bugs present themselves that haven't been identified yet. Or in case you choose not to renew it at some point.

GB is now voting for renewing the US alliance that they lost, and in 5 days when this voting round ends you will have your 3 week alliance with US activated again. After 1 or 2 weeks you will be able to renew it again, meaning it doesn't have to expire before it can be renewed.

Just KEEP CALM and CARRY ON, and wait for the alliances to run for a full round since the hotfix so that the old alliance system can be converted into the new one. 

Explained.

Thanks:)

[Archaos]

The way I understand it is that you cannot create an alliance with someone that you are already in alliance with no matter how many votes you put towards it, hence at the end of each alliance period there is a period where you are enemies before you can create alliance again.

It is a system that is flawed because there is a possibility I think for it to get messed up. For example the current situation on PvP1 is that the USA, Britain and Dutch are in an alliance, while in that alliance (21 days) it is pointless to vote alliance with each other as it has no effect. But say for example some British people decided to vote for an alliance with Spain and by some chance Spain voted alliance with Britain, then at the next vote count if there were sufficient votes Spain would become allied with Britain possibly at the same time as the alliance with USA expired. This would mean that Britain would not be able to vote USA back into alliance at the next round because as I understand it you can have at max 2 allies.

At least that's how I think it works, please someone correct me if I am wrong.

[Jean Ribault]

Still lost.  Seems to not be worth the time to vote ATM.

[Jean Ribault]

It's too complicated.  I don't bother voting anymore, or if I feel like clicking buttons I go ahead and close my eyes and click.  Make it simple or delete it.  If not, whatever results you get you get.

[Archaos]

On 11/10/2016 at 2:38 PM, Anolytic said:

All your speculations are wrong. This is just part of the conversion from 9 day alliances to 3 week alliances. Admittedly I cannot see the Brit/US/VP politics screens, but considering that the exact same thing is happening to the Swede/Dane/France/Spain alliance I feel safe to assume that the cause is the same:

It's very simple. It is not because you cannot renew active alliances or anything of the sort. It is because the fix to the alliance bug required that alliances were converted temporarily back into 9 day alliances in a 3 week system. Meaning that last voting round GB had 2 alliances expiring - the one with VP and the one with US. The alliance with VP was set to expire after 6 days - so 2 days before the voting round ended, and the alliance with US was set to expire in 9 days as per the old system. In both cases this was 9 days ago, so the VP alliance ended 3 days ago and the US alliance ended this morning. 

For most of last voting round the GB/US alliance was less than 6 days since renewed and therefore in it's second round active. Thus it couldn't be voted back in. Therefore Brit/VP votes were forced towards each other and GB had to renew their alliance with VP unless they had the foresight and organisation to wait for the last 2 days of the voting round where they would have a real choice in the matter. Then 2 days before the voting round, the GB/VP alliance expired, but it was already scheduled to renew at the end of the round. 

According to the history drop down in the politics tab this is what happened. The GB/VP alliance was renewed on the 9th. It was then renewed for 3 weeks and not 9 days, meaning that it is now fixed to fit with the new system and in 1 week you will be able to vote to renew it so that you can renew it 1 week before it expires. Provided alliances follow the old rules. Otherwise you will be able to renew it in 2 weeks, which is just in time to renew it before it ever expires. Either way it should cause no problem again unless of course other new bugs present themselves that haven't been identified yet. Or in case you choose not to renew it at some point.

GB is now voting for renewing the US alliance that they lost, and in 5 days when this voting round ends you will have your 3 week alliance with US activated again. After 1 or 2 weeks you will be able to renew it again, meaning it doesn't have to expire before it can be renewed.

Just KEEP CALM and CARRY ON, and wait for the alliances to run for a full round since the hotfix so that the old alliance system can be converted into the new one. 

Well it looks like my speculation of what would happen is the correct one, and I am sure a lot of Danes expected this to happen too, hence the timing of their attacks against 5 British ports the same day the alliance with the Dutch expired.

[Jean Ribault]

Wish I could help you HK, I don't understand it either.  I just click buttons every now and then when they're available, based on what the other members of the faction would like to see. 

[HardyKnox]

On 11/9/2016 at 9:55 AM, Jean Ribault said:

Wish I could help you HK, I don't understand it either.  I just click buttons every now and then when they're available, based on what the other members of the faction would like to see. 

Jean, thank you.

I'm glad I am not the only one who sees this process as opaque.

~ HK ~

Edited December 25, 2016 by HardyKnox
remove redundant "I'm glad"

[HardyKnox]

1 hour ago, Archaos said:

The way I understand it is that you cannot create an alliance with someone that you are already in alliance with no matter how many votes you put towards it, hence at the end of each alliance period there is a period where you are enemies before you can create alliance again.

It is a system that is flawed because there is a possibility I think for it to get messed up. For example the current situation on PvP1 is that the USA, Britain and Dutch are in an alliance, while in that alliance (21 days) it is pointless to vote alliance with each other as it has no effect. But say for example some British people decided to vote for an alliance with Spain and by some chance Spain voted alliance with Britain, then at the next vote count if there were sufficient votes Spain would become allied with Britain possibly at the same time as the alliance with USA expired. This would mean that Britain would not be able to vote USA back into alliance at the next round because as I understand it you can have at max 2 allies.

At least that's how I think it works, please someone correct me if I am wrong.

Imagine if the NATO treaty expired every six months and could not be rebuilt, regardless of the votes of the member nations, for six months.

Bizarre.  Like alien life forms were toying with an "ant farm" filled with humans instead of ants, by shaking it up every morning, just to watch the death and confusion.

~ HK ~

[Anolytic]

All your speculations are wrong. This is just part of the conversion from 9 day alliances to 3 week alliances. Admittedly I cannot see the Brit/US/VP politics screens, but considering that the exact same thing is happening to the Swede/Dane/France/Spain alliance I feel safe to assume that the cause is the same:

It's very simple. It is not because you cannot renew active alliances or anything of the sort. It is because the fix to the alliance bug required that alliances were converted temporarily back into 9 day alliances in a 3 week system. Meaning that last voting round GB had 2 alliances expiring - the one with VP and the one with US. The alliance with VP was set to expire after 6 days - so 2 days before the voting round ended, and the alliance with US was set to expire in 9 days as per the old system. In both cases this was 9 days ago, so the VP alliance ended 3 days ago and the US alliance ended this morning. 

For most of last voting round the GB/US alliance was less than 6 days since renewed and therefore in it's second round active. Thus it couldn't be voted back in. Therefore Brit/VP votes were forced towards each other and GB had to renew their alliance with VP unless they had the foresight and organisation to wait for the last 2 days of the voting round where they would have a real choice in the matter. Then 2 days before the voting round, the GB/VP alliance expired, but it was already scheduled to renew at the end of the round. 

According to the history drop down in the politics tab this is what happened. The GB/VP alliance was renewed on the 9th. It was then renewed for 3 weeks and not 9 days, meaning that it is now fixed to fit with the new system and in 1 week you will be able to vote to renew it so that you can renew it 1 week before it expires. Provided alliances follow the old rules. Otherwise you will be able to renew it in 2 weeks, which is just in time to renew it before it ever expires. Either way it should cause no problem again unless of course other new bugs present themselves that haven't been identified yet. Or in case you choose not to renew it at some point.

GB is now voting for renewing the US alliance that they lost, and in 5 days when this voting round ends you will have your 3 week alliance with US activated again. After 1 or 2 weeks you will be able to renew it again, meaning it doesn't have to expire before it can be renewed.

Just KEEP CALM and CARRY ON, and wait for the alliances to run for a full round since the hotfix so that the old alliance system can be converted into the new one. 

Edited November 10, 2016 by Anolytic

[Serk]

I've just lost acces to 5 ships and my Live oak forest because of the odd 5 days transition forced upon us when renewing an alliance. I thought this was a bug that got corrected. Oh well, see you in 5 days then, I'll finally finish my Witcher 3 playthrough,

Edited November 10, 2016 by Serk
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