Restrictions for 1st, 2nd & 3rd Rates

[Cmdr RideZ]

I agree that it would need pretty big changes to make 1st rates to be as rare as Titans in EVE.  Tho, I suppose in real life those were even more rare than Titans in EVE.

 

Just having 1x 1st rate per port battle, would make it to feel like a real flagship, instead of one from 25.

 

 

I think last nights tally was..

 

1 Victory captured.

1 Santisma Captured

1 Buce, sunk.

1 Indiaman capped.

1 LGV capped.

Indeed, I do not like these results too much.  Even alone Surprises are capping 1st rates, as were before, now just easier.  This is also part of the reason why I do not like the current rake damage.

[Wesreidau]

Here's an idea, cap port battles by BR.

 

25 ships/7500 BR, whichever gets hit first. That way, you can have 12 Victory, 25 Agamemnon or any combination in between.

 

2x 100 gun ships, 12x 74s and 5x 64s vs 5x 100 gun ships, 8x 74s and 3x 64?

 

Sounds like a fair fight to me and every ship is useful, welcome in battle.

 

 

What a concept. It would also de-elite port battles severely.

[Pada]

What a concept. It would also de-elite port battles severely.

But then we stil havel ugly port battles full of clone ships. Slots are the best solution.

[admin]

But then we stil havel ugly port battles full of clone ships. Slots are the best solution.

 

Slots will only work with lobby based entry - where everyone enters the lobby and then decide who gets in and who not based on points.

[Snoopy]

Here's an idea, cap port battles by BR.

 

25 ships/7500 BR, whichever gets hit first. That way, you can have 12 Victory, 25 Agamemnon or any combination in between.

 

2x 100 gun ships, 12x 74s and 5x 64s vs 5x 100 gun ships, 8x 74s and 3x 64?

 

Sounds like a fair fight to me and every ship is useful, welcome in battle.

 

Yes, yes yes. It would also help smaller nations perhaps (fewer people? bring a bigger boat)

Unfortunately, this seems to be a very unpopular idea.

 

"Anything goes" 50 First rate battles should be in the domain of the large battle queue; events like a revamped Trafalgar evening.

 

.. and Capital Raids.

[admin]

Yes, yes yes. It would also help smaller nations perhaps (fewer people? bring a bigger boat)

Unfortunately, this seems to be a very unpopular idea.

 

 

 

it is unpopular because everyone understands this proposal is impossible without a lobby

if 25 first rates sail to the port battle do you say only 2 enter? What about the rest? Don't you logistical nightmare of solving this problem for the nation? What happens to those who are denied this entry? Are they standing near the pb marker free for attack? Or we hide them magically? Who enters first and who second? How is this queue determined? 

[Alex Connor]

First come first served for entry until BR/Ship limit is reached, nations can sort out fleet composition (they would not take 25 1sts when all know max 12 can enter), if extra ships turn up they can spectate the port battle (they are the covering fleet for after battle).

 

I don't see any new problems, we already have times when more than 25 players show up for PB.

 

(optional alternative for entry, everyone goes into PB then game automatically pulls people with most conquest points till limit is reached) 

[admin]

First come first served for entry until BR/Ship limit is reached, nations can sort out fleet composition (they would not take 25 1sts when all know max 12 can enter), if extra ships turn up they can spectate the port battle (they are the covering fleet for after battle).

 

I don't see any new problems, we already have times when more than 25 players show up for PB.

 

(optional alternative for entry, everyone goes into PB then game automatically pulls people with most conquest points till limit is reached) 

 

I believe you are not thinking it through.

especially the "nations can sort out fleet composition" part + particularly if it is countered by half competent screening fleets.

your system will work fine on a whiltelisted invite only RP server. Or in a lobby. 

 

Why would anyone take a 3rd rate and sail for 1 hour, breaking through screens to find out that he cannot enter (because someone else took his 3rd rate ship slot). And what will happen with him after he is left defenseless near enemy port and why do you think he will sail to this port battle again in the future.

[Alex Connor]

I believe you are not thinking it through.

especially the "nations can sort out fleet composition" part + particularly if it is countered by half competent screening fleets.

your system will work fine on a whiltelisted invite only RP server. Or in a lobby. 

 

Why would anyone take a 3rd rate and sail for 1 hour, breaking through screens to find out that he cannot enter (because someone else took his 3rd rate ship slot). And what will happen with him after he is left defenseless near enemy port and why do you think he will sail to this port battle again in the future.

 

I'm the one suggesting a BR cap, not slots...

 

The BR cap is flexible, there are no slots, whatever ships show up can enter until the 7500 BR limit is reached (or 25 ship limit).

 

Very similar to current system, I don't see any new problems.

[admin]

I'm the one suggesting a BR cap, not slots...

 

The BR cap is flexible, there are no slots, whatever ships show up can enter until the 7500 BR limit is reached (or 25 ship limit).

 

Very similar to current system, I don't see any new problems.

 

 

yes sure.. 

25 random lynxes enter and then what. 25 ships - requirement fulfilled. Less than 7500 BR also fulfilled

 

You are thinking only about the players who get in - you are not thinking about those who did not and end up sank.

 

Player sails his precious santisima there - break through screens - and then what? He stays outside because his slots are filled because more people arrived?

Do you think enemies will let them queue up nicely to let a balanced group in?

[Alex Connor]

Can set minimum entry to 4th rate, that way even if 25 random players show up there will still be 7500 BR and a reasonably fair fight.

 

Too many players wanting to go to port battle is an existing problem, if you need solution then maybe extra players can spectate the fight?

[elite92]

Whats about creating a lobby the following way?

 

1. Port Battle opens.

2. The attacking fleet enters the lobby AFTER they have sailed from their port. Open Word sailing to port keeps intact and its encouraged.

3. During 10 mins, the lobby is working and all type of ships can enter the lobby, not the port battle.

4. In the lobby, the players votes their national/alliance patners for the port battle. (like the alliance system, you vote the nations which you want to be allied to). Players with higher hostility have more points to spare.

5. Only the players with higher number of votes enters the port battle.

6. The rest of the players who didnt enter the pb can:

    See the port battle.

    Return to Open World and fight outside. 

now that port battle dont happen so often and they are also announced by system i will prefer:

1- port battle start in 15 min: server announce on the screen and players from both nation involved can join the "port battle lobby" from any NATIONAL port without the need of selecting now the ship.

2- in the first 5 minute players with higher hostility points ( let's say from max points to X points) from both nation can choose their preferred ship among the 25 slot available (something like: 2 1st rate, 3 2nd rate, 5 3rd rate, 5 4th rate, 10 5th-6th rate).

3- after the first 5 minute others players with X to Y hostility points do the same (they obviusly can see which slot are free and which are already taken).

4- the last 5 minute are for all players with low points or no points (from Y to 0) and its their turn to choose their ships.

 

-all players who have failed to join because the PB is full(if it happens) can return to play in ow or do their business without wasting any more time.

 

-port battles truly become a national affair in which everyone can participate regardless of their distance and the free time available to them, because Naval Action is first and foremost a GAME and should be FUN.

 

-MERITOCRACY: more you play in the region concerned by the port battle, and more slots you'll have to play with your favorite ship, both in attack and in defense

 

-end fleet of screening, as anachronistic and not at all funny; have the courage to face the enemy in real battle and not intercept him before cowardly through exploits and magical apparitions.

 

as the admin wrote a few days ago when the defense did not generate hostility in the region it will have less of the attacking faction slot because, in fact, it was not interested at all to the defense during the days preceding the port battle.

 

discuss

[Snoopy]

[..]

your system will work fine on a whiltelisted invite only RP server. Or in a lobby. 

 

Why would anyone take a 3rd rate and sail for 1 hour, breaking through screens to find out that he cannot enter (because someone else took his 3rd rate ship slot). And what will happen with him after he is left defenseless near enemy port and why do you think he will sail to this port battle again in the future.

Valid points.

 

Lobby would have solved this but the hate is strong

Perhaps you could reuse the hostility points to grant access. That is to say you buy a PB "flag" for your own ship with the hostility tokens. You can move the flag between ships.

Everyone in the nation gets to see the player name and what ship type the flag is in (as a list on the map, conquest/hostility menu)

That way you get a dynamic system, a lobby of sorts, where the attackers can fiddle around with their fleet composition but still would have to sail their ships in.

[Wesreidau]

yes sure.. 

25 random lynxes enter and then what. 25 ships - requirement fulfilled. Less than 7500 BR also fulfilled

 

You are thinking only about the players who get in - you are not thinking about those who did not and end up sank.

 

Player sails his precious santisima there - break through screens - and then what? He stays outside because his slots are filled because more people arrived?

Do you think enemies will let them queue up nicely to let a balanced group in?

 

If there's a BR limit for the total ships in a port battle, then the 25 ship limit goes out the door.

 

Organize who gets to join and who stays out by who has the most hostility points. More hostility points, higher priority to play in the PB.

 

Have all interested ships join the port battle like they do now, which then puts them in the port battle lobby.

 

Captains are rated by their hostility points earned, and by their BR. Ships that can't fit into the BR total and don't have enough hostility points to be higher in priority won't join the port battle.

 

However, if a player so chooses, he can donate his hostility points to another player.

 

Organized groups or team players can donate their points to their 1st and 2nd rates to push them up the priority and build their fleet lineup the way the nation as a whole wants to.

 

A player who did a lot of hostility fights will have a lot of hostility points, and if he brings a 1st or 2nd rate, he's almost assured a post. But a player who did a lot of fights in his frigate can still contribute by donating his points to a buddy in a 3rd rate.

 

And what reward do you get for donating hostility points?

 

All hostility points "delivered" to the port battle and donated to, or held by, a ship that enters the port battle grants the earner gold and XP proportionate to the total hostility point delivery.

 

Earn 500 hostility points in a frigate, show up to the port battle in your frigate, donate 500 hostility points to a clanmate who gets in: win 500 hostility points worth of XP and gold for participation.

 

Then leave the lobby and join the battle royale.

[Lannes]

Maybe I'm missing something, but I thought the OP was recommending a limit on capacity of the SOLs, not how often you can sail them.  For my part, I think once everything is normalized (a wipe, and Crew damage), things will level out.  At least for a time.  And while you may enjoy cruising in 1st Rates, there are whole groups of people that get annoyed at it.  Imagine sailing around in a perfectly adequate ship (5th or 4th rate) and being unable to participate in any worthwhile PVP without a group because everyone you see is sailing in these massive tubs.  For every one of you, there are people like me.  If I HAVE to sail an SOL, I'm not going to voluntarily go over a 74.  I sail a 4th rate OW because a 5th is absolutely not enough to compete.  It really is a pleasure to see 50 or so guns blaze away on a 1st Rate, no question about it.  But for me, sailing with skill and outmaneuvering your enemy is the most beautiful aspect of this game.  Simlply outgunning your opponent requires no real skill.

I for one have no wish to sail a 1st or 2nd Rate beyond the gifted Bucentaure. I get most pleasure sailing frigates and 4th Rates.

[Wesreidau]

Hell, I've sailed more hours in a Privateer than a 4th rate or higher, but a few things are clear.

 

25v25 is the limit for port battles, and it has always favored the biggest, best ship possible. 4th rate fights are "exceptional Ingermanland only", SOL fights are "1st Rates Only". If a slot is open at the very end, the teamspeak commander might let you in your Connie or Bucket.

 

If we want to design ourselves away from 25 1st rates versus 25 1st rates in port battles, we must do away with 25v25.

 

Even-teams fights will always favor the biggest individual players.

 

Look at football. Not a single football team puts out 200 pound linemen when there's a pool of 300 pound linemen. If you can only put so many players on the field, you will get the best player possible.

 

That's all there is to say.

 

Some system of "X battle rank versus X battle rank", filling as we bring ships in and our hostility points permit us to participate will be a huge step forward, and the point-donating scheme we came up with was such low-hanging fruit that two of us invented the same thing without reading the other.

 

I think its a natural movement forward.

[JollyRoger1516]

On 07/11/2016 at 1:42 PM, Edward Canaday said:

 

 

Maybe I'm missing something, but I thought the OP was recommending a limit on capacity of the SOLs, not how often you can sail them.  For my part, I think once everything is normalized (a wipe, and Crew damage), things will level out.  At least for a time.  And while you may enjoy cruising in 1st Rates, there are whole groups of people that get annoyed at it.  Imagine sailing around in a perfectly adequate ship (5th or 4th rate) and being unable to participate in any worthwhile PVP without a group because everyone you see is sailing in these massive tubs.  For every one of you, there are people like me.  If I HAVE to sail an SOL, I'm not going to voluntarily go over a 74.  I sail a 4th rate OW because a 5th is absolutely not enough to compete.  It really is a pleasure to see 50 or so guns blaze away on a 1st Rate, no question about it.  But for me, sailing with skill and outmaneuvering your enemy is the most beautiful aspect of this game.  Simlply outgunning your opponent requires no real skill.

You seem to be making this about having to lose a part of the playerbase - I don't think that is necessary especially seeing that after all this time the people who want the immersion weren't put off enough to leave. If you're looking for PvP against me you will have to bring the right ship or find the right enemy for your own ship size. I entirely udnerstand your point but pelase understand mine too as should a third of the playerbase leave you will be happy about numbers like 600 - try and find some PvP then! The people who enjoy a certain ship class want to spent the majority of their time in said class. We aren't here to grind fun or I would play some free to play game. If we are forced to join your joy of PvP against our joy we won't be around much longer.

Also as to the aspect of skill. I truely don't udnerstand the high horse of 5th rate captains - I occasionally sail a 5th rate when I hunt in French waters and after 4 months I have only been sunk once as I came too close to the reinforcement zone of Fort Royal allowing ships to spawn next to me. Not only do I seem to be entirely capable with a 5th rate you completely forget the skill set required for a ship of the line. As they are such massive hulking beast which deal mass damage in a single broadside you ahve to account for several things. The reload means your broadside needs a good overall aim including the entire ship length even more so for a rake! Due to the size and their speed and turn disadvantage these ships need to plan their moves and thsoe of the enemy well in advance or a msitake will be severely punished as you are exposed to it for a significant amount of time. A lot more tactics and discipline involved in first rate battles+line battle aspects in comparison to the loose and fast action of small ships.

We are having this discussion about 1st rates now partially fueled by the clone ships of port battles which could jsut be fixed with eliminating the BR alltogether(yet thsi seems to easy for most for reasons unknown to me) next one will be about 4th rates and so on. But we seem to be more intent of scaring away major parts of the playerbase then to actually find simple fixes for everybody.

Edited November 9, 2016 by JollyRoger1516

[fox2run]

I think I speak for the majority of players when I say, that as a player you LIKE:

 

to level up, advance throught the ranks and ships - from cutter to 1st rate

to get involved in a lot of fighting and action 

To get some real challenge in PvP fights in all kind of sizes

 

 

You DONT LIKE:

 

To waste time with nothing really happening

Not to use the high level ships you fought so hard for

Not to be able to join action

To play hunt-battles with nothing really happens apart from bow-chasing or running

 

Fix it!

please!