War Supplied from 0 to 100

[Archaos]

1 minute ago, Lobster2.0 said:

You don't have chat ? You can't say to your nation about spotted enemy ?

Please read the posts above

[Wesreidau]

No no no, by all means, lets continue to say "learn to play" whenever a new mechanic is being alpha-tested.

I wouldn't care so much about war supply bombing if we weren't pretending it was the new "port battle screening" effort to intercept hostility generating ships. But so long as port battles are joinable before the rest of the "cannot join battle" timer has expired, we're forced to come up with ways to make defending hostility fun.

I am going to repeat it, allow war supplies to be donated defensively to build up "fortification". If an enemy is attacking a region, defenders currently hope to intercept the PvE grinders attacking, or get incredibly lucky and have a fleet on call to intercept the war supply ships.

But if defenders were shipping in war supplies defensively, while attackers shipped in war supplies offensively, we see both factions attempting to screen and intercept war supply deliveries. This produces the counterplay of making a war supply convoy for both defenders and attackers, and the area being known to be under attack brings more players to the fight.

The defender building up fortifications with or without a threat gives some PvP-related action for PvE crafters and traders. The attacker smuggling in war supplies to reduce fortification gives riskier activity for the same PvE players. Since fortification is only reduced while at 90% hostility, the area will be on high alert from the defender and attacker both. Then we have "screening" as we intercept war supply smugglers, as either the attacker or the defender, trying to keep war supplies from getting into the port. A mechanism that works for both attacker and defender.

We can also do away with AI fleet kills generating hostility. War supply delivery, hostility missions and player killing should be the only hostility generating elements, otherwise people will attack fleets, instantly close the battle, and camp the battle exit screen to avoid the defenders who came out to stop them, as I've seen happen.

[DreamMaker]

26 minutes ago, Archaos said:

Please read the posts above

Pls stop flud, stop writing in this topick, you waste 5-7 hours your life for this discusion and 0 useful information, people waste his time for you = 0 profit, just blame, blame, dispute again dispute and again blame.

Edited November 10, 2016 by DreamMaker

[Guest]

For those of us who wont touch war supplies with a ten foot pole (the only thing worse than having to PvE to get some large PvP battles going is to do supply runs for it), can supplies be provided defensively to lower hostility in a friendly county?

[Wesreidau]

19 minutes ago, Aegir said:

For those of us who wont touch war supplies with a ten foot pole (the only thing worse than having to PvE to get some large PvP battles going is to do supply runs for it), can supplies be provided defensively to lower hostility in a friendly county?

That's my thought for "fortification", delivering war supplies defensively to build up a buffer against attack.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Wesreidau said:

That's my thought for "fortification", delivering war supplies defensively to build up a buffer against attack.

Don't get me wrong, it wasn't a suggestion, I was just asking because I thought I read somewhere that someone had stockpiled war supplies at Bermuda to counteract any hostility build-up which implied that it was already working like that in-game, not because it's a good idea - personally I think it would make the hostility build-up even more stagnant and pro-defender than it already is, which is the last thing we need right now.

Edited November 10, 2016 by Guest

[Wesreidau]

11 minutes ago, Aegir said:

Don't get me wrong, it wasn't a suggestion, I was just asking because I thought I read somewhere that someone had stockpiled war supplies at Bermuda to counteract any hostility build-up which implied that it was already working like that in-game, not because it's a good idea - personally I think it would make the hostility build-up even more stagnant and pro-defender than it already is, which is the last thing we need right now.

Stockpiling supplies defensively was discussed on Teamspeak when we first began looking at the new patch, but if war supplies can be donated from 0% to 100%, immediately triggering a port battle, then war supplies cannot be used defensively. That's why I think they should be pre-donated into a defensive pool called Fortification, which could itself diminish daily.

[EL LOCO]

Another solution would be to change smuggling.  For an example.  If you have a smugglers flag on and enter a port.  That triggers a battle  where a set number of AI defends with forts.  The goal of the smuggler would be to make it to port and then exit battle and be in port.    This would dramatically change the trading environment.   That battle would be OW battle and subject to any ships to enter.    Pure Smuggling. 

Or.   If 20 Indiaman carrying war supplies (troops) delivers to enemy port (not capital) .  Then that port should automatically turn instantly (or to maintenance) . Could be reversed the same way.   Cause you do need troops to take a port and not just ships.   Then that sector would be come hostile as now you must pvp or pve to increase hostility for possible Capital Port battle.     For now..its just using free ports to pve and it becomes ever so boring.

[Jeheil]

6 hours ago, Powderhorn said:

We're still adjusting to a major forum overhaul.  This happened overnight.  The original developer response when this happened before was to increase the weight of supplies, so it was less easy to do.  It seems it still may be too easy to do.  That is an argument for you all to present.  Please do so.

The read the OP. Simply limit the %age you can generate in X hours. Done.

[Jeheil]

5 hours ago, Kloothommel said:

Exactly. All agreements are against the attackers.

Since the weekend, we will see a total of 2 Port Battles.

One where a nation attacked a port that they are NOT at war with.

One where a 100% hostility generated instantly.

Now I don't blame any players actions, indeed I would rather see this in test than production but....

Not one "as intended" Port Battle has to be a symptom that the game mechanic isn't working as intended and we need some serious Dev grey-matter spent on this. The system as intended is probably not entirely broken as we are testing with two pollutants in the system :

1) A significantly lowered player base

2) With Spain being given nearly 200 ports at reset and actively NOT defending them, there is less chance of PvP (I am not blaming spain or her fine captains, she cannot afford even one active PvP player per port....)

The best PvP has occured in places where Borders Matter Belize/Salamanca and the Windward Islands/Trinidad...outside of this other OW PvP has been limited to ganking (not really ganking...just fleets of players looking for PvP and saying hello by killing enough folks to spawn a player response) or Live-Oak 'piracy' off the coast of Florida.

I think some form of hostility mechanic should still be persevered with before returning to Flags. 

[Long John Saliva]

I though Port battle were supposed to be between enemy's or is that a double cross kept in the mechanic?

Whats the point of voting then ?

 

[Sir Max Magic]

17 hours ago, Powderhorn said:

We're still adjusting to a major forum overhaul.  This happened overnight.  The original developer response when this happened before was to increase the weight of supplies, so it was less easy to do.  It seems it still may be too easy to do.  That is an argument for you all to present.  Please do so.

 

The issue is NOT the wheight of the supplies ! You can always counter this with bigger merchant fleets, maybe even escorted by 1st rate screening fleets...

 

The REAL issue is that you can raise the hostility from ZERO to HERO in a matter of seconds and that there is NO counter possible !! This defies EVERYTHING, the Devs had planned with the Hostility mechanic

When the fleet appears on the horizon, time is MUCH to short to muster a defence force !!!

How in hell should you organize a capable force in 2 or 3 Minutes EXACTLY at the destination port of the Hostility Bomb Fleet ???

Even when you would spot the fleet on the vast ocean by pure luck and then a defence force would be organized, the Hostility Bomb Fleet could still log out on the ocean, waiting until the defence force would vanish because of pure boredom !!!

 

Ask yourself, do you really want a game, which gets won by players with the most patience and biggest resistance against boredomness ??? 

[JollyRoger1516]

On 10/11/2016 at 10:11 AM, DreamMaker said:

ahahahahah. It was a big "BOOOOOM". Not only Hostility boom, much more english backside  BOOOM! 

On this topic: You was have enough time to notice us, it is not joke. Trade fleet, without "cover ships". We speend for this mission many resources, about 3-4 hours playing time for delivers, it was not be easy! Stop cry and try play, mates.

Ohh.. 1 more: If you not rdy for Hostility bombs, it is not a bug! Just lift your lazy ass and try to confront the us! We'll be waiting all forum warriors at PB. Good luck!

I refer you to max post against it - only one thing is right - our nation is lazy right now as nobody can be bothered anymroe to fight mechanics skill with ingame skill - might be a challenge but it aint a fun one. For all intents and purposes I would like to give the map to the Danes. As ports currently provide no security of their own a nation with mroe then 5 areas to defend is compeltely unable to deal with such a hostility bomb. Again please have the map - then we can go on an exploit streak and you will be crying in our stead.

EDIT: Has Max's topic been moved without the rest of it or why is my post in here now?! - THis new forum with stuff being mvoed around is rather confusing and my post is now compeltely out of context?!?!

Edit 2: Seems like it didn't show anything that wasn't at least 16 hours old hence my response being late and out of context...

Edited November 11, 2016 by JollyRoger1516

[North]

1 hour ago, Sir Max Magic said:

 

The issue is NOT the wheight of the supplies ! You can always counter this with bigger merchant fleets, maybe even escorted by 1st rate screening fleets...

 

The REAL issue is that you can raise the hostility from ZERO to HERO in a matter of seconds and that there is NO counter possible !! This defies EVERYTHING, the Devs had planned with the Hostility mechanic

When the fleet appears on the horizon, time is MUCH to short to muster a defence force !!!

How in hell should you organize a capable force in 2 or 3 Minutes EXACTLY at the destination port of the Hostility Bomb Fleet ???

Even when you would spot the fleet on the vast ocean by pure luck and then a defence force would be organized, the Hostility Bomb Fleet could still log out on the ocean, waiting until the defence force would vanish because of pure boredom !!!

 

Ask yourself, do you really want a game, which gets won by players with the most patience and biggest resistance against boredomness ??? 

you don't need a big fleet to attack when the trader's don't have fleet escort and alot of them was without guns..

All you have to do is sink 1 ship and the hostility bomb won't work.

[Lobster2.0]

So , you want the attacker  spend their time , their resources , organized the event , and you making your case and doing NOTHING to protect the port , protected it? First you whine that you can't defeat the Danes 25vs25 1 rates , then , that you can't unhook the Danish fleet in the battle 40vs10 , now the Danes sailed for 3 hours on the 23 traders(!!!) of which you need to sink only 1, but you still whine that nothing you can to do.  MAYBE YOU SHOULD START TO DO SOMETHING ?  The Danes throw 1 , max 2 , PB during the week , around the same time. Maybe you should start using your brains and spend 3 hours of your playing time as an attacker, to protect your port ?

Edited November 11, 2016 by Lobster2.0

[DreamMaker]

50 minutes ago, JollyRoger1516 said:

Again please have the map - then we can go on an exploit streak and you will be crying in our stead.

can be, you will have to to apologize for this words. Be careful, boy...

[Guest]

13 hours ago, Wesreidau said:

Stockpiling supplies defensively was discussed on Teamspeak when we first began looking at the new patch, but if war supplies can be donated from 0% to 100%, immediately triggering a port battle, then war supplies cannot be used defensively. That's why I think they should be pre-donated into a defensive pool called Fortification, which could itself diminish daily.

That's just adding yet another mechanic to deal with the symptoms of offensive war supply bombs, rather than resolving the problem itself.

So far offensive war supplies have been the topic of discussion - but if we're going to think two steps ahead, wont defensive use of war supplies be really bad for the game as well? Any weight increase won't matter when you can stockpile them over short distances, over the course of several days and with alot of protection for the traders as a defender. Nor does a percentage limit matter if the intent is to block or slow down hostility as a defender rather than trigger 100% immediately.

I can already picture attackers putting alot of effort into trying to reach 90% hostility on a critical region, and the defender chooses to simply make use of some of its war supply stockpiles to keep the PB from triggering until the attackers either give up for the day or end up with a horribly timed PB. That doesn't sound like a healthy scenario at all.

 

At this rate the game is starting to feel alot like flipping systems when Elite Dangerous first launched (which scared me away from the game) - run PvE combat missions and supply runs again and again and again just to watch a percentage bar slowly increase.

Edited November 11, 2016 by Guest

[Sir Max Magic]

16 hours ago, DreamMaker said:

Pls stop flud, stop writing in this topick, you waste 5-7 hours your life for this discusion and 0 useful information, people waste his time for you = 0 profit, just blame, blame, dispute again dispute and again blame.

 

Be honest, you just found a loophole in the system and you dont want it to get taken away from you...thats explains all your answers, very simple !!! 

Therefore you are neither interested to discuss it nor searching for solutions for an obviously broken game mechanic...

But you dont see how this hurts the gameplay experience for everyone

 

[Sir Max Magic]

 

I would like to quote @ Lord Vicious, who is unsuspected to sympathize with the British faction out of another thread:

(he relates to someone who tried to point out how difficult it would be to gather the resources for a War Supply Bomb)

 

18 hours ago, Lord Vicious said:

 

gather? nothing i moved 5k saltepter in 20 mins from guibara to mt, the rest was already in  mt (like sulphur)  or in my wareshouse,  so techically all i need is my own 8 accounts with indiaman making 2 trip   up and down and thats it, i can even do it alone whenever i like,  So techically 1 person with enought money/accounts can bomb even jamaica if i do it at 6 am when there is nobody  just scouting my own indiaman line. 

 

or 15 SORRY in indiaman starting from mt, to whatever so 20 min, 30 min? 40 min? depending on target port thats it. 

 

The main issue wich you not understand ... is that doesnt matter if they require 200000000lab h or 200, if they cost 50k or 5ml (wich still nothing in both cases)

The fact that you do it safely in a port an then  have the ability to bomb whatever with 5 ppl 30 ppl at your convenient time choice , while the enemy have no alarm, no chance to block you,    This make the whole thing completely fucked up since you risk no single ship in pvp

... becouse any logic person would see that  creating a 0-100% aggression that give no chance to reply from "materials" safely crafted in a port  is clearly broken.  mechanic.

 

Are we play a pvp game in age of sail, or a truck simulator ?  

 

I find for myself no better words and he is clearly 100 times more experienced than me and respected(infamous ) on whole server for his PvP knowledge 

 

maybe you Guys should listen to him, if not to us British Players (who are obviously a bit biased because the bomb was dropped against us)

 

Edited November 11, 2016 by Sir Max Magic

[JollyRoger1516]

dont see why I would have to apologise to you - ahve no intention of doing so either

[Wesreidau]

Then just log out your 1st rates in the harbor of the ship you just bombed, play your alts for two days, and pop in the SOL's account when your alarm clock goes off. You can flip a port without ever engaging in PvP before the "fair" 25v25.

[Anolytic]

2 hours ago, Sir Max Magic said:

 

Be honest, you just found a loophole in the system and you dont want it to get taken away from you...thats explains all your answers, very simple !!! 

Therefore you are neither interested to discuss it nor searching for solutions for an obviously broken game mechanic...

You have no idea what is discussed where. There are places where we can seriously and thoughtfully discuss the mechanics of this game, away from the flaming, trolling and false accusations that permeate this topic and others. 

The "loophole" you talk about doesn't apply specifically to danes. Anyone can do it. And we have every interest in it getting fixed like anyone else. However when people here scream that they have the quick fix and the solution, they do not take into account that those quick fixes introduces new problems to the game.

32 minutes ago, Wesreidau said:

You can flip a port without ever engaging in PvP before the "fair" 25v25.

Why would you put fair in quotation marks?

[Archaos]

5 hours ago, Lobster2.0 said:

So , you want the attacker  spend their time , their resources , organized the event , and you making your case and doing NOTHING to protect the port , protected it? First you whine that you can't defeat the Danes 25vs25 1 rates , then , that you can't unhook the Danish fleet in the battle 40vs10 , now the Danes sailed for 3 hours on the 23 traders(!!!) of which you need to sink only 1, but you still whine that nothing you can to do.  MAYBE YOU SHOULD START TO DO SOMETHING ?  The Danes throw 1 , max 2 , PB during the week , around the same time. Maybe you should start using your brains and spend 3 hours of your playing time as an attacker, to protect your port ?

Again you say people did nothing! please explain that to the Danish Indiaman captain I caught just before he entered Somerset and the fortification wrecked him and he cried that port defenses were overpowered. Also to the french trader brig I caught South of Somerset the same day, I actually felt sorry for him, but still took his ship and escorts. Or even say that to the other Danish Indiaman captain that I captured close to Somerset. All these were on the same day and in fact the last one was one of the fleet that had just delivered the "Hostility Bomb".

This shows that despite patrolling and looking out for these things it is still possible for them to get through unnoticed as it is a big ocean and there is no warning. There is no way every inch of the ocean can be watched 24/7. This is what makes the "Hostility Bomb" a broken mechanic and why people are up in arms over it, its is that despite efforts to patrol and defend the region with many hours of sailing round empty waters it is still possible for the hostility to be taken from 0 to 100% in a very short time.

Also as I pointed out previously, and you did obviously not read, even if a patrolling ship had sighted the fleet they would not have had the BR to draw the fleet into battle even if they were in a first rate, so the chances of engaging and sinking one was very unlikely even if they had been spotted. I am sure the planners of this tactic took that into consideration in their planning and that is why they could sail without a screening fleet or additional protection.

Even if the fleet had been caught and 1 vessel sunk, would that have stopped the same tactic being used at another time? It has been pointed out that it is not that hard to make war supplies, it just takes time and money. Yes the sail to Bermuda is a long one, but that applies to everyone who has an outpost there. Ask people about the long boring sail they have to do each time they need to transfer some goods, the initial worry when you depart in case you are jumped, the boring sail across where you spend most of the time afk ar alt-tabbed and the final few minutes as you get close to your destination and the risk increases again of getting jumped. I have done it a few times and on many occasions never sighted another ship, so dont tell me that the sail was hard or some great feat just because of the number of ships.

I get that some people live for the fun of port battles but this method to obtain them will eventually ruin the game. 

[Magnum]

Bermuda is supposed to be a hard nut to crack as far as attacking goes - it is silly to propose that all ports should be equally easy (or hard) to attack. Some on here seem to propose that it is the Danish right to exploit mechanics because the mean old dev's made Bermuda "hard" and because the proud Danes are the "underdogs" in Open World.

Well the Danish faction is quickly gaining the reputation of Grievers in chief - rather than "underdogs". Have you even considered "NOT" using the exploit and just reporting it to the dev team?

----

A simple 10 to 20 min cool down between drops of war supplies might just patch it up and still allow a build up of hostilities to a head by very determined attackers

[Selak]

6 hours ago, Anolytic said:

Why would you put fair in quotation marks?

he put fair in quotation marks because by flipping port via war supplies and then logging out 1st rates in the harbor of the port to be flipped completely and totally destroys any notion of fair pvp because doing that avoids much of the pvp you were supposed to have to go through to begin with that is supposed to be there to help the defender actually defend.

as it stands you might as well remove the whole hostility system and just have the server randomly pick a time that a region goes hostile and randomly pick the opponent and just allow anyone in the opposing alliances join the battle from whatever port they are in making the idea of holding territory and fighting for territory meaningless and pointless which is what war supply bombing is already starting to do.