Remove the Marine upgrade module...

[-Krumpf-]

... and make them similar to how crew works.  The player would then have two pools of men (using men as generic tag, no offense to the ladies) from which to assign to their ships.  You could outfit a Constitution with 400 crew and 50 Marines, or rage board equip it with 100 crew and 350 Marines, whatever you choose to set the sliders to.  This would give alot more flexibility to players in choosing their play style and setting up their ships.

 

Now Marines would have to be more expensive to purchase and also probably have a separate medkit which would require some additional stuff to make it more expensive to match the prices (iron ingots etc for muskets, or muskets as a new craft item... devs will figure it out).

 

Another option is to limit the Marine pool to half the amount of the rank's crew pool or to put a limit on the percentage of Marines onboard ships to half like the best current Marine module.

 

This could also make Port Battles more interesting where there is a fort(s) that has to be taken with Marines so you will have "troopships" that need to make it in and land their unit.

 

Just thinking out loud.

 

 

[OlavDeng2]

this is coming at some point if i remember correctly, when exactly i dont know.

[Cecil Selous]

Please no. No sliders for marines. I am absolutely against those ships with 30 - 50% marines we have now and those sliders, at least in the way you suggested it, won't change anything.

Historic marine complement for every warship, thus no marines upgrade, sliders etc. For a 4th rate this number would be somewhere around 60 (first rate around 170).

 

That you have to pay for marines is okay though. And the possibility of troopships to capture large forts should come with a really big disadvantage. Bigger as it is now with gold boarding mods.

 

This is like the fifth time I mentioned that. I am repeating myself and I am kind of stubborn with my opinion on this subject

[Tonnerre de Brest]

I could be wrong but I would think that passing over protocol, if a crew was decimated during a battle, a responsible captain would ask the marines to step up and help sail the ship instead of sitting around like potato sacks while they're being either under attack or stranded at sea.

 

It would be nice to have a mechanic in the game to allow for that eventuality.

[Destraex]

I agree. But their should of course be a minimum crew and the mechanic should discourage a lack of crew in favour of marines on ships. Marines should be very expensive.

 

However perhaps their should be a module for embark soldiers as well at the expense of cannons for troop transports. 

Check out the battle of trafalgar, the spanish and french had a tonne of land units put soldiers on their ships for that battle.

Although I suppose it would be silly unless they cost a mint to replace. You would not expect to permanently embark the 42nd foot on a ship for instance.

 

I would also propose a marine officer to perk up.

 

P.S. I believe in some cases marines helped but in general you want them fresh for boarding actions unless you are desperate.

[Fuzzyhead12]

Please no. No sliders for marines. I am absolutely against those ships with 30 - 50% marines we have now and those sliders, at least in the way you suggested it, won't change anything.

Historic marine complement for every warship, thus no marines upgrade, sliders etc. For a 4th rate this number would be somewhere around 60 (first rate around 170).

 

That you have to pay for marines is okay though. And the possibility of troopships to capture large forts should come with a really big disadvantage. Bigger as it is now with gold boarding mods.

 

This is like the fifth time I mentioned that. I am repeating myself and I am kind of stubborn with my opinion on this subject

and i mentioned that Historical arguments are always flawed and are failing, because there is for every historicly accurate claim an exception, like ships that were transforming troops, these could be Briggs or frigates, dosent matter, but their deck were fairly crowded, Historicly accurate simply dosent fits this game, it is not a Full Fledged Simulater, its a MMORPG with Realistic game mechanics. So try to come with an other more strong Argument then claiming historic accuracy, and if you claim, historicly accuracy then you are in nned to provide a resource, best a primarly resource.

 

To the topic, i feel not fancy about marines, Mainly because the whole Boarding Mechanic will change to a diffrent systeme in a new instance (possible) were you can move troops and such, however i got no information if its RTS, 1st or 3rd person. Thats why the super Marine build will suffer and will be able to taken down by skill then by their 50% marines on ships.

 

currently i run around with 10-20% marines and thats a reasonable amount, anything above that and oyu will suffer in the preboarding engagement, anything lower that number and you cant disengage of a actuel rageboarding.

 

Iam ok with the Upgrade variant of marines, so you cant counter the Debuff of high marinecount on oyur preboarding fight. If you are using it in a slider you have 1 more slot to soften up the debuff of your marines, if this happens then you need to allow ships to actually mount a maximum tonage of guns, instead of the "best Balance" gunmount they have, most of the ships ingame could wied far higher firepower and would suffer in their sailing abilities, but would not capsize with a higher caliber onboard

Edited October 7, 2016 by Fuzzyhead12

[Cecil Selous]

My other argument is, that this would make boarding more interesting imho. Devs already said that they will refine boarding to include better mechanics anyway. I don't know what they have in mind but I trust them to find a satisfying solution.

Marines shouldn't be an upgrade, they should be on every warship. About 1/5 of crew size in large ships and 1/6 in 4th rates and below (primary source is "Nelson's Navy: The Ships, Men and Organisation, 1793-1815" by Brian Lavery. I have it from "Patrick O'Brian's Navy").

You should pay for them like you do for the rest of the crew.  Suitable upgrades should only give some minor advantages to their fighting skill like melee, musket accuracy etc and not their numbers. Or maybe they can gain experience to become better (a thing that I would also like for the rest of the crew). 

Beside the boarding aspect they would also provide the musket fire at close ranges which was discussed lately in the forums. Often Marines also served in the guncrews.

 

Right now we have the extreme of combat fitted ships and boarding fitted ships. Some run something in between. Boarding fitted ships have disadvantages in fighting other ships but have an insanely huge advantage in boarding (talking about 4th rates easily capturing 1st rates). And usualy the boarding fitted ships never sail alone, at least I have never seen one, so this disadvantage in combat can be somehow countered.

 

If new boarding mechanics get introduced in the future an almost equal marine complement on comparable ships just makes it more interesting and exciting. Hopefully it would be totally different from the current mechanics where you don't need to click in the last second. You need to make the right decisions to win the boarding fight and both opponents have the chance to win. Crippling the enemy before you attempt to board them becomes more important. Also smaller ships can't board much bigger ships anymore without some preceding work.

50% percent Marines is the most ridiculous thing in the game in my opinion. I can imagine that the majority thinks otherwise but I am just making a suggestion here.

 

Troopships can still be a thing. Maybe you can hire a bigger marine or infantry detachment if you want to capture forts in port battles or to capture ports in general (I always found it odd when france, sweden, or denmark can hold a port on jamaica without infantry support while the rest of the island is still in british hands)

[Sea Archer]

I would like to see the number of marines as it was historically assigned to a ship.

You may have upgrades for the marines (better weapons, marine officer, etc). But that should be all.

[CaptVonGunn]

As I have suggested before... Make the Quality a factor for combat and morale bonus for them,,. allow stacking of the Marine Upgrade.. Each one on your ships turns 10% of your crew into Marines(the normal amount for most combat ships in this time). You want 50% Marine loadout take 5 upgrades:)

[Destraex]

not all ships historically had marines for all nations. Especially the smaller ratings and merchants.