Credit System for NA Veterans

[Jean Ribault]

Premise:

 

My understanding of the developer intent for game veterans at release is for players to keep their previously earned rank XP and crafting XP, and that those items remain tied to our Steam accounts.  While there is merit to the idea that players have earned their XP over long periods of gameplay and shouldn't have to re-grind for it, I put together a proposal below for an alternate approach that could work using a credit system.  The main worth of a credit system is that game vets would still keep rewards for some (or perhaps most) of their previous gameplay, but at the same time there would not be a complete transfer of rank and craft XP in 1 fell swoop as is currently planned.  This still allows players to reap rewards for time spent, but more closely levels the playing field at release, between new customers and veteran alpha testers.

 

 

Proposal:

 

I propose a credit system, with a cap of let's say 25,000 credits, and scaling downward from there based upon your total XP earned.  New customers or newbs with very few XP points at release would receive 0 credits.  Since some players who've been around for 2 years could actually have less gametime spent than a 6-month player, it would be more logical that credits would not be time-based, but rather only XP-based.  So everyone has between 0 and 25,000 credits at game release.  Those players with any credits at release could apply them towards starting gold, ships, materials, upgrades, roll them back again into rank XP or crafting XP, etc....essentially any game asset that is attainable you can spend your credits on.  You have a time window to spend them and must spend them prior to doing anything in the game.  The cap of 25,000 credits (or whatever the appropriate number is) should be a scalable reduction in worth of the total XP that players have attained.  For sake of argument, lets say rank and craft XP are equal in value.  So the meaningful conversion is simply this:

 

Credits  =  (Rank XP + Craft XP)  x  Conversion Factor

 

So for example if prior to release you had just made it to rank level 8 and craft level 18, you would have earned at least 41,000 rank XP and around 8000 craft XP.  You then have 49,000 XP to convert to credits.  The conversion factor in this proposal is really subjective, but as a starting discussion point let's say it's going to be 3-to-1.  So your 49,000 total XP yield you 16,333 credits in this example.

 

You can then trade in those 16,333 credits at release.  If you decided to make them all rank XP (and given a 1-to-1 trade-in value), you would start the game at rank level 7 with no other assets (except a basic cutter with cannons).

 

 

Goals:

 

They are multiple:

 

- To avoid blindly taking away everything players have spent time accumulating, testing, grinding, etc.  I believe you should get something for your investment.

- To avoid allowing players to keep everything they've earned in alpha; not realistic for games really, and arguably poor for the outset of the final game configuration

(- So it's a compromise of the two points above)

- This method allows for leveling the player base much better at release (you still obviously keep your actual experience, no one can take that away)

- This method allows you to spread your initial earned advantage over more things than just rank XP and crafting XP; you can choose gold, materials, upgrades, etc.  So you choose and are in more control.

 

 

Discussion:

 

Some may disagree and say they earned it all and should keep it all, but bear in mind others are of the very opposite opinion that a total wipe of XP and assets similar to other alpha game experiences is more appropriate.  This idea is a compromise of those ideas and gives you more control.

 

The conversion factor above is what I might consider reasonable, but others will want conversion to be better than 3 to 1, or maybe worse at 4 or 5 to 1.

 

Also, should rank XP and craft XP be equal in value for credits?  I made them so in my example above.

 

What are your thoughts?  Any merit to this idea?

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

I think going back on their promise to keep XP and Craft XP at launch would be met with an extremely negative reaction from players.

[Anolytic]

I think the players that played before release should get some kind of redeemable paint. And the players who played even before the Steam release should get the redeemable yacht again after release. Apart from that everything should be wiped.

[Sella]

Players that got to test the game before it hit steam got a yacht and the respect of the devs that they helped them create the product we love/hate. Same with early acces backers. I don't see why a new class of in-game elites should be created.

 

And i say that with every respect to everybody.

[Jean Ribault]

I think going back on their promise to keep XP and Craft XP at launch would be met with an extremely negative reaction from players.

 

 

This is a reasonable expectation.  So I wonder then, for those who feel this way, would there then be merit to having a credit system that is 1-1 no-cap?  That way you keep everything but then you additionally have the option of keeping it as XP/craft XP or divvying it up as you see fit?  You will lose the affect of leveling the playing field but add the benefit of control.

 

By the way, I am for a complete wipe, that is my opinion, the credit system again would be a compromise.

[Taranis]

I think going back on their promise to keep XP and Craft XP at launch would be met with an extremely negative reaction from players.

 

In fact, I even question the need to delete any of the gains that vet players have.  Heroes & General just launched a few days ago, out of its beta stage and vet players got to keep all that they had.  Why should vet players lose anything?  The game has a significant grind to it.  Many players shy away from the pvp while grinding. 

[Fluffy Fishy]

While it would be nice to have something to get XP again for I don't really think this is the answer. It makes more sense to add some more ranks with more stages of what you can man, then let players progress again than start from scratch,

I would see nothing wrong with max craft level at release going up to 100, with more ranks involved too. With the current numbers of crew you can have being set to "40, 60, 120, 150, 200, 250, 350, 650, 800, 1,100" there is plenty of room for the devs to do something like add another few ranks, changing it to for example; "40, 60, 120, 150, 200, 250, 350, 450, 600, 750, 900, 1000, 1100, 1200, 1300, 1400, 1500, 1600, 1800, 2000". Leaving us with 20 ranks and the ability to lead a small fleet should we want to. I even doubt that many players would run a small fleet because AI is never as good as human players but the possibility of running with one would still be a nice thing to have and would add some nice balance for poorly populated nations.

Edited September 28, 2016 by Fluffy Fishy

[DeRuyter]

I hope that our xp will be wiped or at least we will be able to wipe our profiles on request. I would like to enjoy the game from the beginning again

 

Can't you do that now by deleting your character?

 

 

As for the wipe - I agree with Henry - the devs have already promised no xp wipe so flip flopping on that could be a big issue. Also a complete wipe is disproportionately harmful to casual players, who not having put in as much time relatively speaking, nevertheless contributed to the testing.

 

Sure one could look at this in a negative way. ie; having all these max rank players running around will only lead to seal clubbing even with the rookie zone that is being implemented, but having high ranked players around at release is not all bad. Instead of having a multitude of yacht clubs out pveing to rank up, we'll see a variety of ships on the OW with full port battles and an RVR system running at full speed. So in other words the full game will be up and running with content for players of all ranks.

[Nelson Hornblower]

Speaking on behalf of those who only can play a few hours a week, if my exp gets wiped, I can't see myself coming back and playing. I don't have the time to start from ground 0 and I'm sure there are others who feel that way too. 

[Sir Texas Sir]

I hope that our xp will be wiped or at least we will be able to wipe our profiles on request. I would like to enjoy the game from the beginning again

 

Every game I been on has done this.  If anything you got to keep the open beta forwards stuff, but every thing before that tend to get wiped in every game  I have tested.

 

In fact, I even question the need to delete any of the gains that vet players have.  Heroes & General just launched a few days ago, out of its beta stage and vet players got to keep all that they had.  Why should vet players lose anything?  The game has a significant grind to it.  Many players shy away from the pvp while grinding. 

Cause some folks are sitting on millions and millions of credits and ships they got either through a lot of grinding or using the system that isn't flushed out to make it (flooding markets and setting contracts to buy stuff).   You don't even want to know how many 1st rates we are sitting on in our clan right now.  Most of them we have captured but many of them we are producing like crazy cause folks have so much stocked up resources.  It gives way to much advantage to them over new players.

 

I know it's a promis but I got to say one thing going back to a basic cutter as a Curse and grinding up ships is going to suck, it won't take long with a good clan though, but hay it's still going to suck.   I assume all the BP's will be gone to so you will be limited on crafting only what you get for your crafting rank.   I assume no more free officer changes so you won't be able to just gift perk your way to all the BP's again.   It will be intrested none the less when the time comes, but I do think resources should be wiped clean as some folks have way to much stuff stocked piled up.

 

I got a feeling we will prob get a redeemable ship or two upon release to make up for her help in testing.  The guys with the Yachts will prob get those and it will prob be something like the EA where we got the Pickle BP, Rennon and Nigeria ships.

Edited September 28, 2016 by Sir Texas SIr

[Taranis]

Every game I been on has done this.  If anything you got to keep the open beta forwards stuff, but every thing before that tend to get wiped in every game  I have tested.

 

Cause some folks are sitting on millions and millions of credits and ships they got either through a lot of grinding or using the system that isn't flushed out to make it (flooding markets and setting contracts to buy stuff).   You don't even want to know how many 1st rates we are sitting on in our clan right now.  Most of them we have captured but many of them we are producing like crazy cause folks have so much stocked up resources.  It gives way to much advantage to them over new players.

 

I know it's a promis but I got to say one thing going back to a basic cutter as a Curse and grinding up ships is going to suck, it won't take long with a good clan though, but hay it's still going to suck.   I assume all the BP's will be gone to so you will be limited on crafting only what you get for your crafting rank.   I assume no more free officer changes so you won't be able to just gift perk your way to all the BP's again.   It will be intrested none the less when the time comes, but I do think resources should be wiped clean as some folks have way to much stuff stocked piled up.

 

I got a feeling we will prob get a redeemable ship or two upon release to make up for her help in testing.  The guys with the Yachts will prob get those and it will prob be something like the EA where we got the Pickle BP, Rennon and Nigeria ships.

 

I see your point.  But players that put in the hours should have the advantage, and at the end of the day, as many ships as you have, you can only sail one at a time.  Not all of us can dedicate our lives to the game.  Having to re-learn all of the blueprints, re-gain all of the outposts, re-gain all of the non-craftable upgrades, re-gain the resources, re-upgrade your ships....  yeah to say that it would "suck" is a bit of a euphemism.   If the hope is to grow the user base, that might not be the best idea.

Edited September 28, 2016 by TaranisPrime

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

Bear in mind - credits and ships are NOT safe.  They can and will be wiped as the economy fleshes out and balance is achieved.

 

The ONLY things that are safe are your XP and possibly crafting XP.  Notice I also didn't say that your rank was safe.

[Chijohnaok]

I hope that our xp will be wiped or at least we will be able to wipe our profiles on request. I would like to enjoy the game from the beginning again

I imagine that if you submit a ticket asking the developers to wipe out your rank and XP they could do so.

You could donate all your ships/resources and mods to other players(I will volunteer to accept the gold mods).

You could give all your money as well and close all your outposts.

There you go, simple enough. ;-)

[SheepDip]

Sounds great , BUT , what about my Gold Marines and papea , papea , pa ,  Purple Powder Monkeys ??

[SheepDip]

I would also like to start banking the lost XP from sold ships and battles as it stops @ Rear Admiral

[SheepDip]

While it would be nice to have something to get XP again for I don't really think this is the answer. It makes more sense to add some more ranks with more stages of what you can man, then let players progress again than start from scratch,

I would see nothing wrong with max craft level at release going up to 100, with more ranks involved too. With the current numbers of crew you can have being set to "40, 60, 120, 150, 200, 250, 350, 650, 800, 1,100" there is plenty of room for the devs to do something like add another few ranks, changing it to for example; "40, 60, 120, 150, 200, 250, 350, 450, 600, 750, 900, 1000, 1100, 1200, 1300, 1400, 1500, 1600, 1800, 2000". Leaving us with 20 ranks and the ability to lead a small fleet should we want to. I even doubt that many players would run a small fleet because AI is never as good as human players but the possibility of running with one would still be a nice thing to have and would add some nice balance for poorly populated nations.

I don't think there is a human alive that can hit me with every single cannon fired from 700 yards like an AI can 

[Grundgemunkey]

i wouldn't mind losing everything apart from crafting xp ..that was a real grind and don't think i would want to do it again

[BallsOfSteel]

Bear in mind - credits and ships are NOT safe.  They can and will be wiped as the economy fleshes out and balance is achieved.

 

The ONLY things that are safe are your XP and possibly crafting XP.  Notice I also didn't say that your rank was safe.

 

 

I do have a question,

 

For those already at max rank level which includes myself  is the ongoing xp we continue to recieve being  recorded in case of an increase in ranks? I would prefer to see the xp gained still in game  as a total.

[Elric]

I think it would be good to wipe and start over. 

 

At the personal level, I like the thought of battling to reach the top before anyone else...  I may not succeed, but I would be able to gauge how good I am at playing the game. 

 

I am also concerned any new players would become discouraged to find they paid their dollars to became second class citizens.

 

I wouldn't mind seeing non-competitive rewards for established players - paint is a good example - Loco Bandito would look great in a pink vic....

Edited September 29, 2016 by ElricTheTwo

[Billy Budd]

I just don't know how I would feel, if I had to start all over again, with a Cutter, considering what I have achieved in this game so far. I am half way in my XP towards my next rank as Flag Captain, I have a nice fleet of gold 1st, 2nd & 3rd Rates, including L'Ocean which I bought for big money at Kingston Port Royal, even the new Agamemnon. As far as crafting is concerned I am at Level 11 and have crafted a few small ships so far, which I have successfully sold so far. I still have a bank balance of just over 17 million gold, all earned from fishing and trading all over the map. I play on PVE and just like to play on my own against the AI.

If I loose all this when the game is fully released, I doubt whether I would want to start all over again. and I think many other PVE players may call it a day, if we loose all we have grafted for.

 

I know that there are many of you, who have been with the game from the beginning and that most people play on PVP. This may affect PVP players more than those that play solo on PVE, but to have to start again with a clean slate is going to upset quite a lot of players, who don't have the time to spend rebuilding everything they have acquired so far.

[themule08]

I just don't know how I would feel, if I had to start all over again, with a Cutter, considering what I have achieved in this game so far. I am half way in my XP towards my next rank as Flag Captain, I have a nice fleet of gold 1st, 2nd & 3rd Rates, including L'Ocean which I bought for big money at Kingston Port Royal, even the new Agamemnon. As far as crafting is concerned I am at Level 11 and have crafted a few small ships so far, which I have successfully sold so far. I still have a bank balance of just over 17 million gold, all earned from fishing and trading all over the map. I play on PVE and just like to play on my own against the AI.

If I loose all this when the game is fully released, I doubt whether I would want to start all over again. and I think many other PVE players may call it a day, if we loose all we have grafted for.

I know that there are many of you, who have been with the game from the beginning and that most people play on PVP. This may affect PVP players more than those that play solo on PVE, but to have to start again with a clean slate is going to upset quite a lot of players, who don't have the time to spend rebuilding everything they have acquired so far.

See here is the thing... we all knew that everything would be wiped except xp..

So I have played this past month on an xp rage.. could care less about ships and money.. leveled to crafting 47 and flag captian..

Now everyone can play as you want.. but, with knowledge of an asset wipe already in place for awhile.. you can't complain when they get rid of everything.

[Sir Texas Sir]

I would also like to start banking the lost XP from sold ships and battles as it stops @ Rear Admiral

Save those redeemables for your officer when he dies and you get a new one. I just lost one and he was ranked up to rank 5 just from the redeemables I have collected from ships I sold and xp shared from them.

[Jack Jones]

I am grinding now. Have been for a month.

I work, have a family etc.

My goal is 4th / 5th rates and be a realistic british privateer. Not bothered about 1st rates and all that clan stuff

BUT I have endured the grind to get to where I want. I was promised XP would be safe.

For casual Alphas like me it's a game breaker if you change it.

[Fuzzyhead12]

-

 

Changing the current "you keep yur Exp" promise, will lead into a massive Legal problem, just look at "One Man´s Lie", theyve lost alredy 40% of the profit they have due to being sued

[Twig]

I'd rather would like to see them to get back to the old leveling system. The new one is to fast and kills the fun.