Trading and comparing Prices of Goods

[Billy Budd]

I think I could say, that I have spent 70% of my game time, sailing all over the map and have visited every port on the whole map in PVE. If you count all the ships I have bought, you could say I have made over 50 million gold from trading alone. There are just two resources that will earn you money, apart from Fishing and that is Sugar & Tobacco. You can buy Sugar for as little as 400 gold and 500 gold for Tobacco. The highest you can sell Sugar is 600 gold, making a a 33.3% profit. You can sell Tobacco for as high as 750 gold, thus making the same 33.3% profit. Fish meat sells normally at 33 gold per portion, but can fetch 99 gold at ports that consume lots of fish. Catching fish is obviously 100% profit because it doesn't cost anything to catch. However you can also buy fish meat for 67 gold per portion and sell it on where it fetches 99 gold, thus making a third profit. 

 

And they are the only goods you can successfully trade for profit. Everything else like Food, Hemp, Coal, French Wine, Iberian Meat and materials like various Wood, Coal, Salt and so on, in fact almost everything else, will cost you more to buy, than you can sell it for. So what is the point of trading in these goods, if you can't make any profit from buying these goods and selling them on for a profit. I am relating to Trading ships here and not production buildings, where you can produce goods and sell them on for a profit. You can't enter any port and buy these goods at a lower price than you can sell it for. So what is the purpose of having trading ships delivering these goods for no profit, it just doesn't make sense. Why only Sugar and Tobacco, can you make any profit at all when buying and selling at different ports. 

 

 

[Elric]

You need to revisit the ports you are attempting to sell.  The vast majority of items are all saleable at the same 33.3% margin.  Compass wood - buy for 1000, sell for 1500

 

The only exception at the moment is where contracts to buy are in place - and those might get you better or worse then the 33.3% margin, and food supplies - where there doesn't seem to be a port that buys these..

Edited September 21, 2016 by ElricTheTwo

[JustaRegularDude]

Good post - I'd just add to this that 33% profit on Compass Wood is Not the same as 33% on Tobacco. Tobacco weighs .5 (if I remember right) and Compass wood is at least 2.5.

 

So when trading, dealing in goods first that you can fit more of into your ship will yield you a larger profit for the time spent.

Edited September 21, 2016 by JustaRegularDude

[Billy Budd]

Good post - I'd just add to this that 33% profit on Compass Wood is Not the same as 33% on Tobacco. Tobacco weighs .5 (if I remember right) and Compass wood is at least 2.5.

 

So when trading, dealing in goods first that you can fit more of into your ship will yield you a larger profit for the time spent.

 

I follow what you mean about weight, I still think Tobacco and Sugar are the best two resources to trade with. You can always find Ports selling large quantities of these products, so much on occasions, you need a Gros Ventre or an Indiaman to get them into the hold. Many times I have had to make two journeys in a Traders Brig, to collect all the Sugar ( 2995) that was for sale, because I couldn't fit it in the Briggs hold (2455). I don't bother with Traders Lynxes and Cutters. as they can't carry that much. I find the Brigs are best for shallow water ports, where you can't enter with bigger trading ships.

[Challenge]

Most of the goods fluctuate enough to sell for more than you bought it. You just have to hold it until you find a worthwhile price. And just to clarify: Buy for 400, sell for 600 is a 50 percent profit (Sell price - Buy price = 200; Divide by Buy price 200/400 = .5 or 50%). Same with a buy of 500/sell for 750.

[SheepDip]

I have a lvl 3 iron mine in Savannah and can take a big load back to Charleston and sell it for 222 per , I never calculated % but I make money AND the ports 

are literally next to each other 

[SheepDip]

I follow what you mean about weight, I still think Tobacco and Sugar are the best two resources to trade with. You can always find Ports selling large quantities of these products, so much on occasions, you need a Gros Ventre or an Indiaman to get them into the hold. Many times I have had to make two journeys in a Traders Brig, to collect all the Sugar ( 2995) that was for sale, because I couldn't fit it in the Briggs hold (2455). I don't bother with Traders Lynxes and Cutters. as they can't carry that much. I find the Brigs are best for shallow water ports, where you can't enter with bigger trading ships.

 

I dumped all cutters , lynx's ,  everything but a t-brig , a t-snow and a bunch of LGVs , oh and 1 gold 3/5 Indi w/fir/speed 

[Bramborough]

Not to quibble, but buying at 400 and selling at 600 is a 50% profit, not 33.3%.  You invest 400, and get 600 back, for a 200 profit.  200 is 50% of 400.  

 

In any case, an NPC consuming port always buys any resource at the same 50% higher than NPC producing port sells for.  On everything from Compass Wood down to Stone Block.  As long as:  1) There are no player contracts in place for that item at that port, and 2) the port has not hit the 25000 cap for that item.

 

What makes items such as Tobacco & Sugar so good isn't the NPC profit margin, which is the same for all resources.  It's their combination of high value and average-to-low weight.  Which lets you maximize the value which you can fit into the hold in one trip.  They're not more "profitable"...they're more efficient.  Compared to a single shipload of Tobacco, it would take 100 trips to make the same amount of money lugging around Stone Block, despite identical profit margin.

[HardyKnox]

 There are just two resources that will earn you money, apart from Fishing and that is Sugar & Tobacco.

 

And they are the only goods you can successfully trade for profit. Everything else like Food, Hemp, Coal, French Wine, Iberian Meat and materials like various Wood, Coal, Salt and so on, in fact almost everything else, will cost you more to buy, than you can sell it for. 

 This is simply not correct, in my experience, at least in PvP US area, where I sail.  Many basic goods are available in quantity in ports where they are PRODUCED for less than what you can sell them for in ports where they are CONSUMED.  However, that profit-making offer is not available all day everyday.  Other Players and the AI itself produce and consume at variable rates, which sometimes means that the port is overstocked or out of product. At that time the price falls to zero or rises significantly.   Unless one is attentive to these market price variations, one can have the illusion that one cannot make a profit in basic goods produced by ports in quantify.

 

Bramborough is correct, the EFFICIENCY of some goods is what makes them more desireable to trade.  I can produce Tobacco in my plantation in for about 175g.  It can be sold in the same port for 250g ... but not every day.  So, I can either store it and set a Contract to sell at 249g when the port is again in need, or carry it one port away, combine it with Rum (plentiful @105g or made from Sugar, Oak, a bit of Iron and some Pitch at about the same price (including opportunity cost of Labor Hours), I then combine the Tobacco, Rum and some Food Supplies (made from Fish Meat caught or bought @67 or less) and make Medium or Large MedKits, which can be sold at significant profits on Contract.

 

The daily port prices and availability are discoverable on NavalActionCraft.com

 

~ HK ~ 

Edited September 22, 2016 by HardyKnox

[HardyKnox]

You need to revisit the ports you are attempting to sell.  The vast majority of items are all saleable at the same 33.3% margin.  Compass wood - buy for 1000, sell for 1500

 

The only exception at the moment is where contracts to buy are in place - and those might get you better or worse then the 33.3% margin, and food supplies - where there doesn't seem to be a port that buys these..

Food supplies can be sold profitably when combined with Tobacco and Rum to craft MedKits. Medium and Large MedKits are profitably sold because they are useful to PvP players and are not produced by the AI economic engine.  But you must sell them with Contracts or to other players in a Trade Window.

 

~ HK~ 

[IndianaGeoff]

Fixed trading is for fixed prices as long as there is demand.  The real money is for labor created goods that sell for very high prices vs effort.  Carriages, notes and in demand ships.

[RaimundoJoe]

I feel that the trading implementation in the PVE is much better then in PVP. I sailed arround(PVP) and tried to gather enough gold to get a bigger ship to do PB, wich i like, instead manged to get owned while trading and lost everything. Got contracts placed, in diff outposts nothing happens. I sailed from a port that produces a certain good  to a port that consumes that good just to get there and see that the "quota" for that good is filled, so i sailed to another port ... same thing there..... in the end i got jumped by some bigger ships and lost al my cargo. Great stuff!  love it! (NOT)

[Billy Budd]

I feel that the trading implementation in the PVE is much better then in PVP. I sailed arround(PVP) and tried to gather enough gold to get a bigger ship to do PB, wich i like, instead manged to get owned while trading and lost everything. Got contracts placed, in diff outposts nothing happens. I sailed from a port that produces a certain good  to a port that consumes that good just to get there and see that the "quota" for that good is filled, so i sailed to another port ... same thing there..... in the end i got jumped by some bigger ships and lost al my cargo. Great stuff!  love it! (NOT)

 

Exactly why I prefer playing in PVE. You don't have to worry about other players. I can trade with my trader ships and even take on AI contraband traders with an "Indiaman" or "Le Gros Ventre" and usually end up capping them. I have capped no end of AI "Trader Brigs" and "Snows" and even captured a couple of AI "Le Gros Ventre's" which have earned me quite a decent gold reward, XP and their cargoes, as well as breaking or selling the captured ships that I send to one of my outposts. I don'y bother with Trader Cutters or Lyxn's as these can easily outrun larger ships and they don't usually carry much cargo. I only place contracts for goods at Nation Capital Ports, as this is where most players buy and sell.

[Atreides]

Quick way to cap a trade lynx, cutter and even brig...

Sail alongside and grape down on deck, when crew hits 0, it auto surrenders.

Only grape, does minimal damage and is quick. A lgv can take a tlynx or tcutter usually in 1 or 2 grape broadsides

[outrigger]

On 9/21/2016 at 10:57 PM, Bramborough said:

Not to quibble, but buying at 400 and selling at 600 is a 50% profit, not 33.3%.  You invest 400, and get 600 back, for a 200 profit.  200 is 50% of 400.  

 

In any case, an NPC consuming port always buys any resource at the same 50% higher than NPC producing port sells for.  On everything from Compass Wood down to Stone Block.  As long as:  1) There are no player contracts in place for that item at that port, and 2) the port has not hit the 25000 cap for that item.

 

What makes items such as Tobacco & Sugar so good isn't the NPC profit margin, which is the same for all resources.  It's their combination of high value and average-to-low weight.  Which lets you maximize the value which you can fit into the hold in one trip.  They're not more "profitable"...they're more efficient.  Compared to a single shipload of Tobacco, it would take 100 trips to make the same amount of money lugging around Stone Block, despite identical profit margin.

They are correct in assessing the profit at 33%.  Starting with total revenue, all expenses are subtracted leaving the remainder as net profit.  The rate of profit is determined by determining the ratio of profit to total revenue.   You have described the formula for calculating the Return on Investment, or ROI  which is as in the example you've given, 50%.  They've 'invested' 400 and got back 600 which is an ROI of 200 or 50%.

Edited August 25, 2018 by outrigger
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