Slow Down Battle

[PatrickAWison]

Speed: Sometimes I cross another ship so fast that I cannot individually aim and fire cannons.  Everybody has an opinion, but mine is that ships move too fast.

Turn Rate: Even more significant is turn rate.  Again IMHO way too fast,  You think you have a nice bow or stern cross set up and the enemy ship practically spins on its axis.

 

It's a fun game but IMHO its missing that age of sail pace (slow!),  In reality a battle could take hours to set up and a couple of hours to complete.  I'm not suggesting reality since we don't have that kind of time for a video game, but a bit of a slowdown would be nice.

 

Other suggestions:

Why wipe out a crew to get it to strike?   50% loss or - at worst - 67% loss should do.

An impression, but I think grape is too effective at range.  At anything other than point blank it should be near useless.  

It seems that ships are too rugged.  It takes dozens, usually > 100, to take down a ship.

Crossing bow and stern are not effective tactics.  It seems very little damage is done.  In reality this was the most effective method of attack.  The ball would travel the length of the ship, wreaking havoc as it went.

Would like to see partial dismasting happen.

 

Just some thoughts based on about 40 hours of game play.  

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

Thank you for your feedback.

 

A few comments in response:

 

On speed, many of us are purists.  However, most of us don't want to wait an hour to close with an enemy.    Gameplay doesn't feel as frenetic as you get into larger ships, but I'll agree, most people in game carry FAR too much sail compared to what would have happened in real life.  Maybe at some point the developers will consider a far high risk of rigging damage when a ship's rigging is hit while carrying more canvas than battle sails.

 

Crew and striking - when it's a trader vessel, it's still kind of lame that you have to kill them to the last man with grape to get them to strike.  Bear in mind when you're actually boarding, the current model actually simulates crew "hiding" as part of the crew remaining.  It's not that you're killing every last one of them, it's showing the crew left that are still willing to fight.

 

When you say it takes dozens - I'm assuming you mean cannonballs.  In reality, ships were extremely resilient to cannon fire.  In most cases, ships struck due to crew loss or total loss of maneuverability.  In game, ships tend to sink after having an inordinate amount of fire poured into them.  What you're seeing in game better represents what you'd see in real life if the crew were zombies and the Captain could come back from the dead (and didn't care how many "zombies" he lost in his fight).  It may just be the nature of an online game where we're safe behind a keyboard.

 

Raking is still fluctuating.  It sounds like the general consensus right now is that a stern rake is still a little weak compared to real life, but then we're still testing and tuning here - good feedback thank you.

 

Mast loss also is still fluctuating.  See above.    We've had a few builds where they'd go over the side at the drop of a hat.

[Æthlstan]

If the crew that are hiding arent included in the count then why cant you impress them with the press gang perk? Press gang is useless now as there is no crew recovery possible

[Sir Texas Sir]

Just some thoughts based on about 40 hours of game play.  

That really isn't a lot of game time to be honest.

 

They need to fix the surrender/Moral issues with bording though.  Makes press gang useless and you pretty much have to kill all crew.  

 

If the crew that are hiding arent included in the count then why cant you impress them with the press gang perk? Press gang is useless now as there is no crew recovery possible

 

Well I agree cause you can count there crew and if this is true than they have way more crew on those ships than what it can hold by players or that every one of these ships has gold hammocks and marines it seems.   I'm sorry if that is the way it's suppose to work it's not working correctly.

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

If the crew that are hiding arent included in the count then why cant you impress them with the press gang perk? Press gang is useless now as there is no crew recovery possible

 

And that is a problem that should be addressed.  Admin himself has stated repeatedly that morale isn't currently broken and that the crew remaining during boarding are those still willing to fight.  It's possible press gang was not modified to account for this.

[Sgt.Barnes]

i personally think that rakings need drastic imporvement, maybe even to the point where 3 (GOOD) rakes will put a ship out, it'd be nice to see more ships foating with their colors struck rather than seeing them sink to the bottom.

[Juan Alfonso]

i personally think that rakings need drastic imporvement, maybe even to the point where 3 (GOOD) rakes will put a ship out, it'd be nice to see more ships foating with their colors struck rather than seeing them sink to the bottom.

 

Indeed, that would be awesome

 

In regards to OP, whilst some improvement needs to be made with stern raking and so forth, I agree with Henry's points completely. 

 

If battles took only 5-10 minutes I wouldn't have enough time to admire my ship

[PatrickAWison]

Henry - good point about battle in full sail.  Forcing people to use battle sail or suffer the consequences would slow the game down in a realistic way.  Sail would be reduced either by choice or by cannon .  

 

An increase in mast loss and a refactoring of crew strength before surrender would also solve the issue of having to pound the enemy into splinters to end the battle.  

 

Sounds good.  Looking forward to future updates.  It's definitely an enjoyable game and as far as I can see you are alone in the space.  Best of luck taking advantage.

[Skully]

I rarely see people using battle sails, but to me it looks more like folks don't understand how they can be used.

IMHO the way we are allowed to surrender is too limited. Hence it'll always turn into a slugfest.

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/15399-strike-colours-ruse-de-guerre-surrender-while-sinking-patch-proposal/

Thus a ship "on-the-run" should strike colours forcing it to slow.

And when it does turn into said slugfest, the best outcome (for the overall game) is abandon ship.

Finally, while sinking is gamey, it is needed to make the economy go round. Crafter and Traders should feel an urgency to get ships done and churn them out.

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/16087-do-not-surrender-here-comes-the-money-sink/

It may look complex, but it all ties together.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

IMO Morale, especially consecutive morale shocks should affect the crews abilities to the ( historical ) point where one of the ships is in clear superiority and her adversary sees the hopelessness and strikes colours.

 

As it is it is a great combat, without wind strengths etc - all ships see wind as it would be the best wind strength - but having crew "will to fight" funneled only to the Boarding option might be reducing some of the age of sail combat options .

[CaptVonGunn]

The Speed and to much sail issue could be handled in two ways... First... You start firing Broadsides with anything but Battle Sail or less.. a % chance per volley of sails catching fire....  That is a LOT of Canvas and Tar and Hemp not fir from the guns at Normal sail:)

 

  Second... if your at anything above Battle sail you increase teh chances of losing mast faster from Mast hits.. Due to the extra strain they are under as they are weakened from gunfire....  

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Unrelated ( of sorts )  but going through the Tall Ships privateer Lynx video they were catching a 36 knots wind and the lady was running at about 9 knots at their best point of sail.

[Sea Archer]

I see the high ships speed as one of the main problems in battles at the moment. Since closing the enemy in a very short time is too easy, ships armed with carronade have a big advantage to those with long or medium guns.

I would support the idea of risking fire, when the main sails directly above the deck were set. I would even like to see the spars where sails are attached break easily when hit with a ball.

This would give chasing a completly new element. Whoever hits first a vital spar will win the chase.

When sometime in the future wind strength might be introduced, hitting a sail in storm might destroy it completely.

But my priority is to slow down ships in battle, so that long guns will be effective again.

[Fletch]

Speed: Sometimes I cross another ship so fast that I cannot individually aim and fire cannons.  Everybody has an opinion, but mine is that ships move too fast.

Turn Rate: Even more significant is turn rate.  Again IMHO way too fast,  You think you have a nice bow or stern cross set up and the enemy ship practically spins on its axis.

 

It's a fun game but IMHO its missing that age of sail pace (slow!),  In reality a battle could take hours to set up and a couple of hours to complete.  I'm not suggesting reality since we don't have that kind of time for a video game, but a bit of a slowdown would be nice.

 

Other suggestions:

Why wipe out a crew to get it to strike?   50% loss or - at worst - 67% loss should do.

An impression, but I think grape is too effective at range.  At anything other than point blank it should be near useless.  

It seems that ships are too rugged.  It takes dozens, usually > 100, to take down a ship.

Crossing bow and stern are not effective tactics.  It seems very little damage is done.  In reality this was the most effective method of attack.  The ball would travel the length of the ship, wreaking havoc as it went.

Would like to see partial dismasting happen.

 

Just some thoughts based on about 40 hours of game play.  

 

Small ships do seem like they travel fast, once you get into bigger ships your soon see things slow down. Try sailing at battle sails rather than full sails and depowering on a pass. Also at 40 hours aiming is still a bit hit and miss, not that I still don't miss now and then after god knows how many hours.

Edited September 21, 2016 by Fletch67

[admin]

Battle sails were used extensively in Sea Trials because they provided a bonus to turning.

 

In real life battle sails were used to control heel and ships never shot to the direction of the wind with full sails due to the fact that burning sparkles and wads could ignite the sails easily. 

We are reviewing this opportunity.

[maturin]

 

 

We are reviewing this opportunity.

Fire chance when struck by projectiles with a high percentage of initial velocity?

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

I disagree on the fact that wooden walls aren't. And iron men are. Not enough Morale in play during the broadsides exchange.

[CaptVonGunn]

IMO Morale, especially consecutive morale shocks should affect the crews abilities to the ( historical ) point where one of the ships is in clear superiority and her adversary sees the hopelessness and strikes colours.

 

As it is it is a great combat, without wind strengths etc - all ships see wind as it would be the best wind strength - but having crew "will to fight" funneled only to the Boarding option might be reducing some of the age of sail combat options .

True but even in Boarding the Morale is goofy. Does lowering Morale effect how well the remaining crew fight? or is it as it seems just something you have to reduce to Zero to matter? 

Battle sails were used extensively in Sea Trials because they provided a bonus to turning.

 

In real life battle sails were used to control heel and ships never shot to the direction of the wind with full sails due to the fact that burning sparkles and wads could ignite the sails easily. 

We are reviewing this opportunity.

YES!!! wish I could like more then once

[Cutch]

The biggest problem that causes everyone to run full sail is how the boarding mechanics are implemented. In order to avoid being boarder, all you have to do is keep your speed up - so that's what everyone does. That's also the easiest way to avoid getting suck in irons - enter a turn with as much speed as you can! So FULL SPEED AHEAD!

 

I'd suggest adjusting the conditions needed to initiate boarding. Instead of both ships having to be under a certain absolute speed, look at the relative speed. Ie, if I'm side-by-side with an enemy, both going the same speed of, say 10kn, then our relative speed is 0 knots and boarding should be possible. But as it is now, even if trade pain for miles, boarding isn't possible! Or as if I'm overtaking an enemy going 10knots, while I'm going 12kn - the difference here is only 2kn, which should be low enough to enable boarding to be initiated.

 

However, it 2 ships are passing either in opposite direction, both going 2kn, then the difference is 4kn, which is too fast to initiate boarding.

 

And then there is grappling... this take time, and should be something that is dependable. This would make a much more rich boarding dynamic, and encourage more diversity in sailing speeds. I When boarding is initiated, a grappling countdown would be nice, perhaps with a starting value based on the distance between the ships and speed differential. This could be modified by upgrades, such as thicker ropes for the attacker, or axes by the defender. The defender can break the attempt by increasing distance or speed differential. Other modifications would possibly modify the conditions need for grappling to be initiated (both offensively and defensively).

 

This would change the way players sail for the better and would add a lot more diversity in ship layouts

[CaptVonGunn]

Grappling dependable? It is already far to easy.... 

[shaeberle84]

Speed: Sometimes I cross another ship so fast that I cannot individually aim and fire cannons.  Everybody has an opinion, but mine is that ships move too fast.

 

The other option would be just to make individual cannon fire quicker. Right not, between every cannon you fire, there needs to be a little pause. Just remove that pause and every hit on space bar is one cannon, no matter the speed.

[CaptVonGunn]

The other option would be just to make individual cannon fire quicker. Right not, between every cannon you fire, there needs to be a little pause. Just remove that pause and every hit on space bar is one cannon, no matter the speed.

That plus the fire all at once instead of in succession