Corvette

[maturin]

Builder: Pierre-Alexandre Forfait, Le Havre

Laid down: August 1793

Launched: 16 January 1794

Commissioned: April 1794

Captured: 20 April 1796 by HMS Inconstant

 

Class and type: Unité-class corvette

Tons burthen: 350 bm

Length: 129 ft (39 m)

Beam: 31 ft 8 in (9.65 m)

Draught: 4.2 m (14 ft)

Sail plan: Full-rigged ship

Complement: 240 officers and men.

Armament:

 

As Unité

24 × 8-pounder guns

8 × 4-pounder guns

 

As HMS Surprise

24 × 32-pounder carronades

10 × 32-pounder carronades

2 × 4-pounder guns as chasers

 

 

http://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_ship&id=6983

 

Surprise is extremely well-documented.

 

It's really no big deal to slap a few extra guns on the weather deck. Just goes to show how silly our definitions of three-masted warships are.

[akd]

AKD, do you have the right plans there?

 

The body plan looks totally different (way more tumblehome, two-turn bilge) from the plans for the refit in British service. Same with the beakhead, gripe and stem, and there are fewer gunports.

 

Could this be the Gracieuse, which the Brits renamed Unite?

 

http://www.thedearsurprise.com/wp-content/gallery/ltigthms-surpriseltigt/padsurprise09.jpg

 

 

The French L'Unite was listed as carrying 8 quarterdeck guns.

 

Yes, must be.  RMG has the plans incorrectly associated.  But the French had renamed Gracieuse to Unité in 1793 (and renamed her again as Variante in 1796 [perhaps only then realizing they had two Unités?], but she was captured before this took effect), which would explain the "as when taken" plans bearing the label "Unité."  Can't really fault the RMG confusion since it seems the Navy captured two French ships bearing the name L'Unité within days of each other.

 

cap. 4/11/96 - Gracieuse / Unité / Variante --> HMS Unite

cap. 4/20/96 - Unité --> HMS Surprise

 

Also, isn't the name Variante rather remarkable?  Could it actually be a joke by some French navy bureaucrat?  "Oh, seems we have two Unités. Well then, this one can be just be Variante."  And the name change was ordered in April, but no day is given.  Maybe it was actually a retroactive name change to clean up the records after both ships were captured at nearly the same time?

[LeBoiteux]

It's really no big deal to slap a few extra guns on the weather deck. Just goes to show how silly our definitions of three-masted warships are.

 

That Unité is part of experiments made on Corvettes during the French Revolution/1st Empire giving them weird armament / number of guns.

They were disliked as Corvettes. Very few were built. Brigs and Frigates were then preferred.

 

At that time only 20-gun corvettes were appreciated for a given feature as corvette : speed. And the 1801 20-gun Diligente become a reference during the first half of the 18th century as corvette-aviso.

 

So definitions and classifications help our understanding of the Age of Sail and how to experiment sailing ourselves in game.

 

On the contrary, using unused, weird or prototype examples of corvette to define the type doesn't help and is just confusing.

Saying that any ship with say 1 to 38 guns can be called a corvette is just making things confusing.

 

Words have been invented to clarify the world not to make it unclear.

 

Now I won't insist.

 

My only goal was to point out that having a c. 1800 20-gun Corvette would be nice. Let's call her XSDZ123. 

[akd]

Here, however, is the "as when taken" Admiralty draught of Tourterelle, sister ship to the actual Unité / HMS Surprise in question, which should give a pretty good indication of the appearance of Unité before she became HMS Surprise.

 

 

compare to refit Unité / HMS Surprise:

 

Deck plans for Tourterelle as when taken:

[LeBoiteux]

Here, however, is the "as when taken" Admiralty draught of Tourterelle, sister ship to the actual Unité / HMS Surprise in question, which should give a pretty good indication of the appearance of Unité before she became HMS Surprise.

I tried to quickly surimpose them on layers in a drawing software. Main visible difference seems to be quarterdeck and forecastle elevations.

And the quarterdeck and the forecastle don't seem to be connected on the French version, am I right ? 

[LeBoiteux]

1801 Diligente as a reference for first half of C19th?

 

Yes my friend, when speaking of sailing of course...

Made by Ozanne, she was the only one Corvette built during the French Revolution-1st Empire that has been appreciated. Mainly because of her speed.

So much that her plan was reused in 1822-1826 to build 18-gun corvette-aviso. Some have been used till 1843-1869.

Baron Tupinier called her "the best model to follow" in 1822.

Interesting for NA as we have the plan.

[LeBoiteux]

I like the idea of the French version of the Surprise, L'Unite, with less armament.  Give it a French texture/color scheme and a different stern.  Maybe modify the model a little if possible, like LeBoiteux suggests.  That is, if it isnt too much work.

 

1) French builder Forfait designed the sistership of the French version (i.e. L'Unité) with 30 guns : 24 guns firing 8-pdrs on the gundeck and 6 guns firing 4-pdrs on the quarterdeck (Boudriot, La Créole, p. 36 ). 

2) Current ingame version of HMS Surprise carries 38 guns : 24 9-pdrs guns on the gundeck + 14 6-pdrs guns on the weatherdeck

 

So we could have ingame :

- British HMS Surprise : 38 guns = 24 x 9-pdrs + 14 x 6-pdrs + current chasers.

- French L'Unité : 30 guns = 24 x 9-pdrs + 6 x 6-pdrs on quarterdeck (+ chasers ?) ; without forecastle barricades.

 

That way, L'Unité would be a direct opponent to 30-gun La Renommée and HMS Cerberus if she gets her original armament (28 guns).

[maturin]

 So we could have ingame :

- British HMS Surprise : 38 guns = 24 x 9-pdrs + 14 x 6-pdrs + current chasers ; with continuous weather deck.

- French L'Unité : 30 guns = 24 x 9-pdrs + 6 x 6-pdrs (+ chasers ?) ; with separated forecastle and quarterdeck ?

I don't know what you're talking about with 'continuous weather deck.'

 

The British just built up the forecastle barricades, AFAIK. I would be surprised if L'Unite lacked gangways entirely.

[LeBoiteux]

I don't know what you're talking about with 'continuous weather deck.'

The British just built up the forecastle barricades, AFAIK. I would be surprised if L'Unite lacked gangways entirely.

 

sry for english terminology I don't know 

 

What I meant (and I was waiting  for advice) is that on the plan of the Tourterelle, the front part of the deck above the gundeck seem disconnected from the rear part :

whereas in game, in the Surprise, both are "continous" meaning there's a kind of "bridge" between them. 

 

Moreover I don't know if the... "barricades" (?) of La Tourterelle are lower than those of HMS Surprise (english version) :

[maturin]

I see a gangway (two 'bridges' along the side) on the French deck layout plan. If the British widened the gangways, it's not a significant change.

[LeBoiteux]

@ Maturin : Thx for the information. Post above edited : http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/15597-corvette/?p=298761

[LeBoiteux]

Another interesting lead might be armament customization for Corvettes and light frigates (Rattlesnake, Surprise, Cerberus...) : captains would be able to choose in port the number of guns and their location (gunport, forecastle, quarterdeck) making ship BR vary.

 

For example, you start with a plain 24-gun Surprise, all on the gundeck.

And you can add as many guns as you wish (within historical or reasonable limits) on the quarterdeck and on the forecastle.

A way to fill in gaps in the ship lineup, customize your ship and to be in control of your ship armament.  Knowing enemy's ship type in OW wouldn't be enough to know her armament.

 

That way, with L'Unité / Surprise, you could have a 24-gun ship up to a 38-gun ship. With a Cerberus : 24 up to say 28 guns.

 

In terms of modeling for that customization, it might be just a matter of having (at most) 3 models of a ship when possible, adding/removing barricades : one without barricades, one with quarterdeck barricades and one with quarterdeck/forecastle barricades. Those possible barricades could be crafted separately by crafters. Another way would be to close unused gunports in barricades.

[Khell DarkWolf]

Another interesting lead might be armament customization for Corvettes and light frigates (Rattlesnake, Surprise, Cerberus...) : captains would be able to choose in port the number of guns and their location (gunport, forecastle, quarterdeck) making ship BR vary.

 

For example, you start with a plain 24-gun Surprise, all on the gundeck.

And you can add as many guns as you wish (within historical or reasonable limits) on the quarterdeck and on the forecastle.

A way to fill in gaps in the ship lineup, customize your ship and to be in control of your ship armament.  Knowing enemy's ship type in OW wouldn't be enough to know her armament.

 

That way, with L'Unité / Surprise, you could have a 24-gun ship up to a 38-gun ship. With a Cerberus : 24 up to say 28 guns.

 

In terms of modeling for that customization, it might be just a matter of having (at most) 3 models of a ship when possible, adding/removing barricades : one without barricades, one with quarterdeck barricades and one with quarterdeck/forecastle barricades. Those possible barricades could be crafted separately by crafters. Another way would be to close unused gunports in barricades.

 

 

I support this.

 

Retrofitting and re-purposing like some did