admin Posted August 2, 2016 Author Posted August 2, 2016 Surely you don't mean Trader Lynx or Trader Cutter? You can countertag anything that can catch you and be nearly 100% assured of escape, because anything that can catch you doesn't have chasers. Thanks to other magic perks and AI fleets it has become almost a necessity to massively gank a trader to catch them unless they are inept or not paying attention. I think you not being able to escape within 500m due to "magic" is a fair counter for that magic coward perk you are almost certainly using. (But actually 500m is probably to short to be worth the points.) we REALLY do want to ask players to take a philosophical approach to sudden abundance due to a new feature. Bottle drops will change, public shipwrecks evens will also come. Trading ships cargo holds will be adjusted. We not sure about their severe penalties to speed (will make trading very hard) but a combat vessel can and should be able to catch a trader in battle. Countertag is only solveable by limiting max possible distance in instance.
Prater Posted August 2, 2016 Posted August 2, 2016 I think counter tag is fixed by just making the attack circle 25-50% smaller. If you attack someone from the max distance, you can't even shoot at them in game and get your cannon ball half the distance to them, even if you are heeled at the max angle, so it is just a waste of time. A smaller attack circle would be better. Keep the unlimited instance size. 5
maturin Posted August 2, 2016 Posted August 2, 2016 Trading ships cargo holds will be adjusted. We not sure about their severe penalties to speed (will make trading very hard) but a combat vessel can and should be able to catch a trader in battle. In case you missed my earlier posts: Speed penalties for cargo are unrealistic unless they only appear after a certain threshold. For Indiaman or LGV, there shouldn't be any penalties until the hold is a good 50-70% full. Ships are designed to sail at a certain displacement, and a trader with an empty hold requires ballast in order to be stable. Trader's Lynx and Trader's Cutter are designed for speed and smuggling, so there's no reason they should be slower than similar warships. On the other hand, they should suffer from speed penalties sooner. Perhaps 30-40% of hold capacity. 6
admin Posted August 2, 2016 Author Posted August 2, 2016 Please dont make very hardcore changes, the game should be fun and not a headache. we wont also we only post firm promises in the announcement section 2
Kanay Posted August 2, 2016 Posted August 2, 2016 Trader ships are way slower than them armed counter-parts, them speed were nerfed hard enough in one of the first patch after EA release. Problem and not only for traders is the def tag and large circle allowing a free escape ticket, any ship slower than mine can escape using a def tag, even using double charge on my chasers i can barely have time to get in range to land a hit on slow warships, this needs a serious attention as it simply kills pvp for me, being in a faster ship but getting a def tag and never in range to get a hit before the player is able to escape makes no sense at all in game and it ain't a new problem affecting this game ... Either reduce the spawn distance in battle instance or the attack circle in OW, or make the one pressing the attack button not able to leave the battle for 10 full minutes, a ship faster like it is in OW when you compare a lynx vs a trader lynx or a fast surprise vs an essex will have time to focus on sailing and catch up to then be able to use the chasers if there is some or for those who like the light trader's hunt and use the perk not allowing to escape if in the 500m perimeter. Having a 10mn lock for the one pressing attack will give you choices : - press attack and run away for 10 min getting out of range of gun chasers or 500m perimeter perk, will be hard in traders versus armed ships that are all way faster than the traders counterparts. - for ships armed : try to Fight - Wait for the enemy to tag you, at the last seconds of the tag timer start to mess in OW maneuvering, making him loose speed trying to follow you or try to put him in a bad starting position in the battle against the wind while you will have a more favorable wind, better acceleration and be able to leave after 2 mn if he isn't fast enough to maneuver, get good wind and catch you. Once this done it might start to be really too hard for light traders to escape anything, it's hard enough already and very easy to catch them, them speed nerfed twice already in various patches making traders hunting the easiest thing in game, free easy meat requiring only to hit the deck with grape shots, 2 salvos and you kill all crew, without having even once to hit the sails or reduce armor or anything else, the traders speed will then maybe be needed to be raised again to balance it. Also stop allowing a ships of 7th rate to be escorted by a fleet of 4th rates for example , allow only a little difference of ranks between main ships and the escort, seeing a trader cutter escorted bu 2 AI constitutions is a bit odd . Traders are easy meat already for most of them, even trader lynx's aren't impossible to catch .
Rosebud Posted August 2, 2016 Posted August 2, 2016 Is it possible to delete skills so that I can try new ones?
akd Posted August 2, 2016 Posted August 2, 2016 I think counter tag is fixed by just making the attack circle 25-50% smaller. If you attack someone from the max distance, you can't even shoot at them in game and get your cannon ball half the distance to them, even if you are heeled at the max angle, so it is just a waste of time. A smaller attack circle would be better. Keep the unlimited instance size. Smaller attack circle inside wider "pull" circle. Make area control larger so it is a viable perk for ships without chasers to actually be able to chase with a decent tag. On the other side of the equation, need to address a significant shortcoming of the current reinforcement system: it is actually an advantage to join late rather than be pulled into the instance by the circle if you are not right next to the tagging the ship. This is hugely unfair to solo players as it allows groups to have all strengths with no disadvantages. I don't think this can be handled with position (i.e. in theory anyone who joins late should be as far or further as a ship that was pulled in at the edge of the circle) because of land in battles, but perhaps a simple progressive spawn time penalty could be added for late joiners making it desirable to be present in the circle when the battle is created? 6
Powderhorn Posted August 3, 2016 Posted August 3, 2016 I'll say this - counter-tagging is important, control is important. Right now, 500m is too short (it's about one box on the minimap when you are in an instance). Essentially, to have Control work before someone escapes with Coward, you need to tag them nearly on top of the inner circle on the OW. Ideally, you want an alert trader to be able to escape (early counter-tag), and an inattentive one (who starts the counter tag very late) to be captured. 2
Bulwyf Posted August 3, 2016 Posted August 3, 2016 Surely you don't mean Trader Lynx or Trader Cutter? You can countertag anything that can catch you and be nearly 100% assured of escape, because anything that can catch you doesn't have chasers. Thanks to other magic perks and AI fleets it has become almost a necessity to massively gank a trader to catch them unless they are inept or not paying attention. I think you not being able to escape within 500m due to "magic" is a fair counter for that magic coward perk you are almost certainly using. (But actually 500m is probably to short to be worth the points.) No I don't have the coward perk nor would it have helped as the control perk would have simply prevented my escape anyway. I got caught sailing upwind by a combat Lynx coming downwind, was on top of me very quickly. Due to speed Nerfs he was faster than me at any point of the wind anyway so there was no way to escape. All in all I spent my night hunting down a ship wreck which wasn't that great (no labour notes) spending another half hour or so sailing back only to have this guy bounce me near the Jamaican coast in a situation which was impossible for me to win or escape as I was in an unarmed Lynx. This was frustrating and wasted my entire night, now I know there are jerks out there who would take pleasure in griefing someone else and wasting their time but it hardly adds to the enjoyment of the game and is a recipe for losing people or causing people to not trade. At least if you lose in a combat you get some experience for it, as an unarmed trader you get squat. There is absolutely no reason for traders to be slower than warships, and a loaded trader was quite often faster loaded than unloaded. The idea that cargo automatically makes you slower is simplistic and stupid. Most cargo ships were designed for a maximum speed when fully loaded, with a lighter load they would heel and spill wind or require ballast to be taken on to prevent that roll. A good example of this is that the speed record for fishing schooners operating out of the grand banks was set by a fully loaded ship.The load only realistically affected their acceleration which is an issue because of the game design feature which makes everyone haul down their sales when tagged into combat. If there was ever a senseless rule that is it. There is no conceivable reason for a merchant attempting to escape to come to a complete halt because he is attacked. Same holds true for a warship for that matter. 1
Skully Posted August 3, 2016 Posted August 3, 2016 bottles are a new feature and are of course not final don't worry about shipwrecks and their effect.. there will be an asset reset on release anyway and by then their influence on economy might change. i agree! An asset wipe doesn't change the end game. We will just be in the same situation 6 or 12 months down. On the one hand it is nice to know the feature isn't final, on the other hand any change needed needs to be analyzed. There is opportunity here to go beyond just stating "it is not final". http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/15500-gold-mods-are-out-of-hand/?p=288720 1
Loco Bandito Posted August 3, 2016 Posted August 3, 2016 Ok the servers just came back up and I popped a bottle, 90min sail. Its one extreme to another.
Tyrdael Posted August 3, 2016 Posted August 3, 2016 Ok the servers just came back up and I popped a bottle, 90min sail. Its one extreme to another. Just curious: where did you pop it, where did the wreck spawn?
Bulwyf Posted August 3, 2016 Posted August 3, 2016 I have to disagree. Once your ship is sinking or burning to the water, its pretty much a given you've lost. What good to an enemy would surrender do then ? Strike colors or not youve lost. I like the new change. As you so eloquently point out, you have obviously lost when burning or sinking, so this is just when you would obviously want to surrender. It may surprise you to know that generally people don't surrender for the benefit of the enemy or to give you an ego boost, they are trying to ensure their own survival when fighting on becomes pointless. Do they care whether such a surrender benefits you? I think that is the remotest consideration on their minds. The prohibition on surrender in these circumstances flies in the face of historical practise and is an ill considered and unrealistic rule at best. 4
Loco Bandito Posted August 3, 2016 Posted August 3, 2016 I popped it at Blondel Cay and it sent me south to Santa Marta. Numerous people on the server are saying the same thing.
Cutch Posted August 3, 2016 Posted August 3, 2016 Was is a bottle you found naturally, or a bottle you trade/purchased? I noticed that bottles I acquire from others players seem to spawn in more remote locations. Its possible that they changed the logic so that the spawn location is tied to the bottle when its generate, rather than when its opened.
Woody051 Posted August 3, 2016 Posted August 3, 2016 My steam is downloading an update for the game now, is there a hotfix or something?
CatSwift Posted August 3, 2016 Posted August 3, 2016 (edited) Confirmed; opened two bottles this morning and they seem to spawn anywhere on the map (vs somewhere close to where I opened them). While annoying, I'm ok with this change. It was too easy to farm ship wrecks before when you could somewhat control where they spawn. Edited August 3, 2016 by CatSwift
akd Posted August 3, 2016 Posted August 3, 2016 As you so eloquently point out, you have obviously lost when burning or sinking, so this is just when you would obviously want to surrender. It may surprise you to know that generally people don't surrender for the benefit of the enemy or to give you an ego boost, they are trying to ensure their own survival when fighting on becomes pointless. Do they care whether such a surrender benefits you? I think that is the remotest consideration on their minds. In game they care very deeply and if allowed to surrender when on fire or already sinking, then players will only surrender when on fire or sinking so that their enemy gets nothing and they get to leave with officers and crew just as if they had surrendered an undamaged ship. This is illogical because the ship has already reached a point of no return that will inevitably lead to loss of crew and officers, as evidenced by the fact that the enemy gets nothing. The only alternative is to implement mechanics that heal or freeze the damage state of a ship at the time of surrender.
hiclipucli Posted August 3, 2016 Posted August 3, 2016 My steam is downloading an update for the game now, is there a hotfix or something? me too, about 4.6 MB . What is this? nobody know ?
Jollypants Posted August 3, 2016 Posted August 3, 2016 Confirmed; opened two bottles this morning and they seem to spawn anywhere on the map (vs somewhere close to where I opened them). While annoying, I'm ok with this change. It was too easy to farm ship wrecks before when you could somewhat control where they spawn. I popped two bottles to check the new locations and both were roughly a one hour sail one direction @19kts. I have to say I'll doubtfully ever explore another shipwreck again at that kind of distance. Wind is not going to cooperate the entire voyage so realistically I'm looking at a 2-3 hour sail which could very likely earn me something like light carriages and rum for my efforts. For the record both bottles were opened around Great Corn and both wrecks appeared almost at the exact same location 2.00 degrees north of Conquibacoa.
Bulwyf Posted August 4, 2016 Posted August 4, 2016 (edited) In game they care very deeply and if allowed to surrender when on fire or already sinking, then players will only surrender when on fire or sinking so that their enemy gets nothing and they get to leave with officers and crew just as if they had surrendered an undamaged ship. This is illogical because the ship has already reached a point of no return that will inevitably lead to loss of crew and officers, as evidenced by the fact that the enemy gets nothing. The only alternative is to implement mechanics that heal or freeze the damage state of a ship at the time of surrender. You may care, the person doing the surrendering certainly doesn't. Its up to the player doing the surrendering as to when and why they surrender, you seem to have the process backwards ie you may only surrender when I feel its appropriate and to my benefit, what a crock. If you are on fire especially it can be touch and go as to whether you actually complete the surrender since blowing up tends to negate your crew and officer survival. What would make sense it to get credit for a kill when someone surrenders to you rather than the nonsensical approach of not allowing a surrender. I have no problem with a person who has beaten me getting rewarded appropriately for doing so, I do have a problem with an arbitrary system which prevents me from taking the appropriate action of surrendering. Edited August 4, 2016 by Bulwyf 2
Vernon Merrill Posted August 4, 2016 Posted August 4, 2016 If your ship is sinking, you're not "surrendering", you're "abandoning ship".... I would venture to say that 90% of actual historical engagements were decided without even firing a shot, or a token shot across the bow to keep ones honor. There is plenty of time between when you are aware you'll lose and when you're sinking. No need to be obtuse.
Captain Black Posted August 4, 2016 Posted August 4, 2016 I read a post in this page saying asset wipes upon full release, I'm just wondering if that's player ranks, holdings and stuff like the previous wipe because if it is I'm out, I refuse to keep on grinding levels in this game then getting wiped back to 0 to just start all over again.
Recommended Posts