Meeting of Nations to Discuss Small Nation sustainability

[angriff]

Or simply limit the amount of ports taken to x a day.

No that would not work when there are loads of players on you want to keep them entertained with the only thing they can do.  If the game is limited to one action then you need to be able to advance the map to feel you are accomplishing things.  There could be other objectives that allow for capture of fishing lanes or the capture of large merchant fleets... but x per day would not work. 

[Mrdoomed]

Disregard, I think we see the game in different way.

O7

Edited July 24, 2016 by Mrdoomed

[angriff]

Disregard, I think we see the game in different way.

O7

I guess the Devs see it your way in wanting it to take days to take one port.  In the regards a singe player attractor pushing all the players into one or two locations.  If the reward for taking on such a gamble needing to be in a large fleet to succeed then it would increase the chance that no players will arrive but for one side.  They ability to wear down the town with raids does provide for some positive action reward feedback.  The same could be true for objectives of meeting fleets outside the port causing points to arrive for defense or offense.  The key is that players know you are there for this type of system to work.  Pulling several feint flags is the normal now which allows success for the offense in some aspects but could produce frustration in players who arrive at the feint with no action.

[Mrdoomed]

I guess the Devs see it your way in wanting it to take days to take one port. In the regards a singe player attractor pushing all the players into one or two locations. If the reward for taking on such a gamble needing to be in a large fleet to succeed then it would increase the chance that no players will arrive but for one side. They ability to wear down the town with raids does provide for some positive action reward feedback. The same could be true for objectives of meeting fleets outside the port causing points to arrive for defense or offense. The key is that players know you are there for this type of system to work. Pulling several feint flags is the normal now which allows success for the offense in some aspects but could produce frustration in players who arrive at the feint with no action.

Who knows what the devs really think ha ha . I edited my statement because i dont think we even play the game the same so our two opinions wont mesh. To me ( and my clan) port battles are only a tiny portion of this game. We play it like an rpg and we are plaing a role in this fake world. We have set up our own little base we have it stocked and sell goods, ships and anything else we can from there. We patrol our waters sinking enemys and aiding friends ( at that time) and we will go on trips to stir up trouble and test the waters of other factions.

The way we play is that we are only a small cog in the wheel and yes ports are important but there is so much to keep us busy we dont have time to even think of doing them.

Those are just a few things that we as a clan do and dosnt include our smuggling trips, commerce raids, crafting schedules and filling orders or making bottle runs etc.

Yes we play different than you so thats why the pace of pb dont matter and i know that moat people dont play the game just for some fun in a alternative fake world so i just edited my post.

Whatever the devs do i will try and adapt and just keep giving my OP from this style of play.

[Jean Ribault]

First of all, let me say thank you to all who attended the meeting.  All nations were represented.   It's nice to see how many people care for the health of our server and all of its factions.  I'd also like to thank our TS hosts for allowing us to use their Arma server.

 

Let me give a brief outline of what we proposed and agreed upon.  Some of the minutia still needs to be hashed out between effected parties but we think we have something which is workable.

 

1.  A minimum of 5 ports shall be left for any nation at war.  They do not have to be specific ports.

 

2.  Any clan from any nation, who attacks  a port beyond the minimum number, shall have a bounty placed upon its members and be hunted down by all the other countries.  The other countries will then assist the negatively effected nation      to get its port back after the cool down is over.

 

3.  British clans in the Antilles have agreed to stop taking Danish ports temporarily  and drop claims to permanent ports in Puerto Rico in return for the Danes ceding ports back to the Swedish Nation.  The Pirate nation has agreed to stop taking Dutch ports beyond a certain city (can't  remember which).     The US member has tentatively agreed to cede US ports on northern Cuba back to Spain.

 

4.  No larger nation can take advantage of an allied nation with the minimum number of ports to fight a proxy war on the larger nation's behalf.

 

5.  Mutually Assured Destruction - any nation who doesn't comply with these rules, shall be faced with war from all of the other nations combined until it does comply.

 

6.   A time limit of 48 hours was established as a short deadline to meet some of these conditions with another meeting to be held on TS in a week to discuss progress and make modifications.  I'd like to see that deadline extended for the full week to make sure that our goals are achievable.

 

7.  Most importantly, THIS IS NOT A PEACE AGREEMENT!  We are all still at war and we expect ports to be taken and ships to be sunk.  This is just some rules of engagement to help retain and possibly even grow the population in the smaller nations.

 

I hope I covered it all and got it all correctly.

 

 

Thank you for posting the update.  Real life caught up with me on Saturday night and I was not able to be at the meeting.  Can you say how many were on the TS and for how many clans, and if all the major clans were represented?

[Robbert Dole]

Firstly, I applaud your effort and believe your intention is good.

 

However, even should these "agreements" work I doubt they will be successful in the current state of the game for one simple reason- ports dont matter. With the introduction of smuggler mode the little value ports held was invalidated, in order to get ships it is as simple as putting on your smuggler flag and picking up the mats at producing ports.What about  "blah blah blah production buildings..."  utterly irrelevant. With 1.) gold being inflated such 2.) the limited capacity of prod buildings, 3.) the overabundance of npc originated materials and 4.) the scarcity of crafting hours; thus I judge the moral character of anyone who uses production buildings for anything more than a money farm. Give the small nations five ports and guess what they are? A small nation with five ports. The game is no fun playing alone, and nobody wants to log on to be the only Spaniard online; One port, five ports or fifty ports, when you ask if anyone wants to go run epic missions nobody is there to answer, you are alone. 

 

TLDR; Ports can('t) do so many things, but they certainly can't dance.

 

Robbert Dole- PVP2 - Clanless Pirate

Edited July 27, 2016 by Robbert Dole

[cheatos503]

You guys seem to be working on the premise that nations should be allowed to exist.

 

This is a game of war, plundering and conquest, not hippies and green peace.

 

and by trying to foolishly agree a treaty that is NOT a game mechanic, you will be inviting alot of disappointment and infighting within the factions

 

Now i have said this many times in the US, so I'll repeat myself here

 

If you feel the game mechanics are broken in terms of the world map, then the best way to illustrate that to the dev team is not by making up some imaginary treaty enforceable by no one and mistakenly made by a few ppl with the audacity to speak for a whole faction. The best way is to break the map completely and show that to the devs. with a note saying "dear devs, is this working as intended?".

 

This idiotic notion that all the nations should have territory that have no population to hold them,  allowed to exist is in the most obvious view counter to a game that is all about world conquest. It kills the realism (The natural argument to that being most of us would be speaking latin as in roman if this weren't the case) and progression in a world conquest game, and also destroys the overall objective.

 

Fairness is a myth, its in the same class of myths like the easter bunny, santa, and the tooth fairy because they were all told to you when you were a child in order to get you to do what your parents want. Why is it that you all have outgrown the rest of them except fairness?

 

If you want a country to expand it borders, then go reroll for that country, dont make up some treaty that will at best last less than a week, or wait for the actual game mechanic to come in. untill then the people in countries that have effectively lost in the game of world conquest thus far can also reroll to a dif country

[Cpt Blackthorne]

Firstly, I applaud your effort and believe your intention is good.

 

However, even should these "agreements" work I doubt they will be successful in the current state of the game for one simple reason- ports dont matter. With the introduction of smuggler mode the little value ports held was invalidated, in order to get ships it is as simple as putting on your smuggler flag and picking up the mats at producing ports.What about  "blah blah blah production buildings..."  utterly irrelevant. With 1.) gold being inflated such 2.) the limited capacity of prod buildings, 3.) the overabundance of npc originated materials and 4.) the scarcity of crafting hours; thus I judge the moral character of anyone who uses production buildings for anything more than a money farm. Give the small nations five ports and guess what they are? A small nation with five ports. The game is no fun playing alone, and nobody wants to log on to be the only Spaniard online; One port, five ports or fifty ports, when you ask if anyone wants to go run epic missions nobody is there to answer, you are alone. 

 

TLDR; Ports can('t) do so many things, but they certainly can't dance.

 

Robbert Dole- PVP2 - Clanless Pirate

If ports don't matter, then it should be extremely easy for this accord to work, as nations would not require the need to crush other nations to one port.

 

You guys seem to be working on the premise that nations should be allowed to exist.

 

This is a game of war, plundering and conquest, not hippies and green peace.

 

and by trying to foolishly agree a treaty that is NOT a game mechanic, you will be inviting alot of disappointment and infighting within the factions

 

Now i have said this many times in the US, so I'll repeat myself here

 

If you feel the game mechanics are broken in terms of the world map, then the best way to illustrate that to the dev team is not by making up some imaginary treaty enforceable by no one and mistakenly made by a few ppl with the audacity to speak for a whole faction. The best way is to break the map completely and show that to the devs. with a note saying "dear devs, is this working as intended?".

 

This idiotic notion that all the nations should have territory that have no population to hold them,  allowed to exist is in the most obvious view counter to a game that is all about world conquest. It kills the realism (The natural argument to that being most of us would be speaking latin as in roman if this weren't the case) and progression in a world conquest game, and also destroys the overall objective.

 

Fairness is a myth, its in the same class of myths like the easter bunny, santa, and the tooth fairy because they were all told to you when you were a child in order to get you to do what your parents want. Why is it that you all have outgrown the rest of them except fairness?

 

If you want a country to expand it borders, then go reroll for that country, dont make up some treaty that will at best last less than a week, or wait for the actual game mechanic to come in. untill then the people in countries that have effectively lost in the game of world conquest thus far can also reroll to a dif country

Even in games, diplomacy and politics can exist. Just observe all the diplomacy that goes on in wot, a pure war only game. In games, we can work out how real world should exist. Just because there are people running the most powerful nations on the planet live by this notion that "other nations don't have a right to exist", does not mean that civilized people in a game cannot act mature, even tho their real life nation does not.

And trying to break a game that first off has no end game to it, no possible way to "win", is indeed impossible. And fyi, on your note of a few people speaking for an entire faction.....it's precisely how rl nation work.

The intent of this accord is not for current population, but for future population growth. This idea is idiotic only if people continue with the pompous arrogance that their rl nation also exudes. May I suggest people grow up in a game. Mature with a mentality greater than world dominance by force. There is no valid reason that 30 or so ports of 300+ cannot be left alone to help entice new players to join smaller nations. No reason at all.

[Mrdoomed]

Robbert Dole ingot your shi done pal, come pick her up ;p

[Mrdoomed]

You guys seem to be working on the premise that nations should be allowed to exist.

This is a game of war, plundering and conquest, not hippies and green peace.

and by trying to foolishly agree a treaty that is NOT a game mechanic, you will be inviting alot of disappointment and infighting within the factions

Now i have said this many times in the US, so I'll repeat myself here

If you feel the game mechanics are broken in terms of the world map, then the best way to illustrate that to the dev team is not by making up some imaginary treaty enforceable by no one and mistakenly made by a few ppl with the audacity to speak for a whole faction. The best way is to break the map completely and show that to the devs. with a note saying "dear devs, is this working as intended?".

This idiotic notion that all the nations should have territory that have no population to hold them, allowed to exist is in the most obvious view counter to a game that is all about world conquest. It kills the realism (The natural argument to that being most of us would be speaking latin as in roman if this weren't the case) and progression in a world conquest game, and also destroys the overall objective.

Fairness is a myth, its in the same class of myths like the easter bunny, santa, and the tooth fairy because they were all told to you when you were a child in order to get you to do what your parents want. Why is it that you all have outgrown the rest of them except fairness?

If you want a country to expand it borders, then go reroll for that country, dont make up some treaty that will at best last less than a week, or wait for the actual game mechanic to come in. untill then the people in countries that have effectively lost in the game of world conquest thus far can also reroll to a dif country

Im not privy to the acual plans or details of what they want to do but i dont think that they are saying a nation " deserves" to live and prosper if it cant defend itself.

I could be wrong but i think what they are trying to donis set up some very temporary rules of conquests to try and grow the overall server population and make all factions seem appealing to be a part of. Im guess once some stability has been established then the normal ebb and flow of war will continue.

I personally think if you cant defend it you shouldnt own it and now with smuggling that is not so bad. France has done a great job of quietly building up and living alone and slowly growing so being small isnt bad but for a new player seeing only 1 port may turn them off.

I also dont think nations should have safe spaces just " because " but if enemies want to grant them certain property for peace then im ok with that.

Personally anything that puts more booty in the ocean for me to take makes me happy.

[Neverdead Ned]

This is totally about retaining and increasing the server population on PvP2.  We not only want to see all the new players, who have recently joined small nations, on our server stay, but we want them happily thriving so we can go and fight a bunch of new faces!  We also don't want new people who are considering to play one of the low pop nations on PvP2, be totally discouraged after looking at our map.

[Harley Davidson]

I was very disappointed to see that the majority of the US Clans had No interest in preserving other nations. PvP2 is a US server and the US nation will just continue to grow. I'm guessing that the Pirates will soon get tired of constantly trying to take US ports and the map will just turn to green ports. I myself have gone to PvP1 and will check back later to see if anything has changed. PvP1 has a better balance and I've enjoyed playing with people from Europe.... Their attitude is refreshing to say the least.

 

I had the Idea of Joining the BLACK  Pirate clan for balance but I think I'll just play on PvP1 for now.

 

I'm hoping someone will continue to carry the torch and be a Champion for the smaller nations. I'm really hoping that PvP2 will not die as many others continue to go over to PvP1.

 

Some of us have tried to make a difference, but in the end the will of the majority wins out.

[Mrdoomed]

Wow, you gave up after a few days way to stick to your guns and work in things.

Well I still hope the rest of you pull it off.

Edited July 28, 2016 by Mrdoomed

[Yowilly]

Instead of going PVP1 Harley u should have gone to one of the smaller nations on PVP2.

 

Some players from the larger nations are moving to help the smaller ones.

 

Once the smaller ones get some traction they can work together.

 

And of course if u dont want to move to a smaller nation u can always put an outpost in a disputed area to help the smaller nations.

 

From what if have seen so far the Pirate Nation is allowing the French and Dutch to take ports uncontested.

 

The Spanish have a problem because they are in a hot zone between US and Pirate.

 

And of course the Danes are being Danes.

 

However, since the meeting there have been positive gains.

 

So, good on all the players who have been trying....

 

John Bernard Shaw Cable (GB)

[Harley Davidson]

Instead of going PVP1 Harley u should have gone to one of the smaller nations on PVP2.

 

Some players from the larger nations are moving to help the smaller ones.

 

Once the smaller ones get some traction they can work together.

 

And of course if u dont want to move to a smaller nation u can always put an outpost in a disputed area to help the smaller nations.

 

From what if have seen so far the Pirate Nation is allowing the French and Dutch to take ports uncontested.

 

The Spanish have a problem because they are in a hot zone between US and Pirate.

 

And of course the Danes are being Danes.

 

However, since the meeting there have been positive gains.

 

So, good on all the players who have been trying....

 

John Bernard Shaw Cable (GB)

 

 

Yes, you are totally correct!

 

Please be advised that I have Joined the French Nation now. I have fought along side these fine Gentlemen and after much thought I will be helping them as a member of the French Navy.

[Elric]

Welcome H-D....France is gradually growing.  Anyone else interested in coming over to France, contact Jean Ribault, H-D, myself and we will help make it happen.

[Neverdead Ned]

I always thought I'd stay in GB to the end but I may go Dutch to be with my friends.  Going to wait until the diplomacy patch comes out first.

[cheatos503]

like i said, no agreement of this kind can work, it will only cause infighting and more BS than it will ever solve.

 

if you are a little nation, and dont like it then leave that nation. or kick somebody's ass and take their ports, those are your 2 choices.

operation green peace is a retarded notion in a game about conquest.

 

massaging the numbers under a false pretense of (again that stupid myth) fairness is also fool hearty, because as an ideal its fine. in practice it will drive more dedicated players away because you negate their work in actually playing the game as it was intended. and for what? so you can hope for more players like the dedicated ones you managed to piss off? brilliant plan

 

If you want player retention then hope that the players that are retained aren't the ones described in my sig.

[Harley Davidson]

like i said, no agreement of this kind can work, it will only cause infighting and more BS than it will ever solve.

 

if you are a little nation, and dont like it then leave that nation. or kick somebody's ass and take their ports, those are your 2 choices.

operation green peace is a retarded notion in a game about conquest.

 

massaging the numbers under a false pretense of (again that stupid myth) fairness is also fool hearty, because as an ideal its fine. in practice it will drive more dedicated players away because you negate their work in actually playing the game as it was intended. and for what? so you can hope for more players like the dedicated ones you managed to piss off? brilliant plan

 

If you want player retention then hope that the players that are retained aren't the ones described in my sig.

 

 

The only issue with that Cheatos is that they will be like you. Hunt in packs and make sure they have an overwhelming superiority before they attack. Everyone will want to join the "winning side" and brag about their Combat skills.

 

Yes, the big kid can always bully the skinny little kid, but never wants to fight someone that has the ability to fight back...

 

Just saying..

[Harley Davidson]

I always thought I'd stay in GB to the end but I may go Dutch to be with my friends.  Going to wait until the diplomacy patch comes out first.

 

 

You are always welcome in the French navy.    But the Dutch and the French will be sailing together anyway...

[Loco Bandito]

Harley is right Pirates are over fighting US they have officially bored us to death. We let them take everything back uncontested towards their capital.

Like I have said before we pirates don't care about ports we want pvp. We took them ports thinking US would turn up for pvp and when they show up to fight with 25 people they still run and not stick the battle out. The last battle and I have screen shots (currently on my phone) they lost one boat and everyone started running. Ok we outnumbered their 1st rates but they outnumbered us on player count as they have always had every battle.

Hopefully the new patch will come soon with the port battles rework, and force people to fight instead of pulling 5 flags and just avoiding the enemy and taking the other ports while the enemy shows up at the first flag you pulled. Or did US have 125 people doing PB that day.

[Aargos]

like i said, no agreement of this kind can work, it will only cause infighting and more BS than it will ever solve.

 

if you are a little nation, and dont like it then leave that nation. or kick somebody's ass and take their ports, those are your 2 choices.

operation green peace is a retarded notion in a game about conquest.

 

massaging the numbers under a false pretense of (again that stupid myth) fairness is also fool hearty, because as an ideal its fine. in practice it will drive more dedicated players away because you negate their work in actually playing the game as it was intended. and for what? so you can hope for more players like the dedicated ones you managed to piss off? brilliant plan

 

If you want player retention then hope that the players that are retained aren't the ones described in my sig.

So i have yet to find anything written about this game that says it is a game about conquest! It is however a game about naval combat.  Kind of goes with the name.  People are not attracted to this game because they read somewhere that you can capture ports and make your country bigger than the rest.  They get this game because they like the idea of sailing and fighting in ships that are portrayed during this time period. 

 

The problem with people like you is all you look at is what you have done, and what you can do.  Your not looking at the big picture of whats going to happen if we  continue to drive people away from the game because one faction thinks this game is about conquest. Maybe you should come to the meeting we have scheduled so you can actually have a understanding of what the intent is instead of just making assumptions on here.  We are not trying to make safe zones! We are trying to entice more players to stay on the server once they get the game.  That would give everyone more people to fight and actually make sinking and taking ships and ports worth something.  It would also make the upcoming diplomacy actually relevant because as it is now nobody is going to use it because there are not enough nations to justify having a treaty with someone.

[Harley Davidson]

To tell you the truth, I'm finding the Pirates have more going for them than many of the US players. Loco shows up and fights like hell even when out numbered 3:1. After the battle he just casually comments how good the fight was...

 

You always put on a great fight!

 

Cheers Loco

[Neverdead Ned]

You are always welcome in the French navy.    But the Dutch and the French will be sailing together anyway...

Well until I make the change, I have an outpost close to the French and the Dutch in the Antilles and I'm at your service to help with screening and running interference when I'm on.  I'm also available to supply ships up to 3rd rates through freeports.

Edited July 29, 2016 by ASinclair

[Harley Davidson]

Well until I make the change, I have an outpost close to the French and the Dutch in the Antilles and I'm at your service to help with screening and running interference when I'm on.  I'm also available to supply ships up to 3rd rates through freeports.

 

I'll message you tonight and bring you in to our ts.