Meeting of Nations to Discuss Small Nation sustainability

[Harley Davidson]

Its been an interesting 2 weeks as I have been fighting along side the French as a member of the US Fleet in the PvP2 US server.

 

I've been running screen for the port battles and helping organize as I want to see the French Nation once again become a force. It has been interesting and an experience to work with another nation to bring them back from the brink. I've also had discussions with the Dutch and Spanish, we've also worked together and fought side by side.

 

 

I just wanted to take the opportunity to invite the other Nations largest Clans to talk on Team Speak this Saturday July 23rd on the PvP2 Server. Lets Discuss the sustainability of other smaller Nations and how it effects the economy and growth of nations as a whole.

 

If you are interested... and I really hope you are, this will be the first step in Politics/Diplomacy  for this game.

 

 

Linguine Mike will be using his TS Server to host this...   Please message him.   I will post his TS address later today.  

[Jean Ribault]

What time, including time zone, on Saturday?

[Harley Davidson]

Hi Jean,

 

Good to see you again    I'm sure it will be around 4 to 8 PST

 

I just wanted to give a heads up and please help spread the word on Global chat as well. We wanted to Give smaller Nation at least 6 ports to keep them growing... the details need to be dicussed and I'm glad you will be there....  I'll have more information posted here later today

 

 

Cheers

[Jean Ribault]

France has 7 ports this morning thanks to helpful screening and Aargos' leadership last week.  I'll spread the word, hope some key players join for Sweden and Spain as well.

 

Contrary to what Bach says in another thread, France has never been dead, even when down to a single port.  But the server health is definitely better when there are alliances.  (Pirates might disagree at the moment?   )

Edited July 22, 2016 by Jean Ribault

[Cpt Blackthorne]

TOTC is working with the Spanish and Dutch. I hope we will see responses from all of these nations listed and all of the major US fleets. BTW, Many thanks to the French and Spanish for their help when joining in PvP against the Pirate influx in south Florida.

[Mrdoomed]

Its been an interesting 2 weeks as I have been fighting along side the French as a member of the US Fleet in the PvP2 US server.

I've been running screen for the port battles and helping organize as I want to see the French Nation once again become a force. It has been interesting and an experience to work with another nation to bring them back from the brink. I've also had discussions with the Dutch and Spanish, we've also worked together and fought side by side.

I just wanted to take the opportunity to invite the other Nations largest Clans to talk on Team Speak this Saturday July 23rd on the PvP2 Server. Lets Discuss the sustainability of other smaller Nations and how it effects the economy and growth of nations as a whole.

If you are interested... and I really hope you are, this will be the first step in Politics/Diplomacy for this game.

Linguine Mike will be using his TS Server to host this... Please message him. I will post his TS address later today.

Imho youre doing what good players trying to build a lasting community do to keep small factions viable. You are using in game mechanics to help them along untill they seem a good option for new players to go with. This is what some of us have been clamoring for for a while. We dont need some wierd bonus fake mechanics to entice people to play a faction we just need to do what youre doing.

My clan via pm offered france and spain our assistance more than once doing privateer work but the players never responded and we havent tried again.

What you are doing could work well. Our clan used to work and help any US player we saw who was under attack from brits and we all worked well for months untill two US clans started attacking us so we had to stop.

Good luck in your plan.

[Harley Davidson]

Imho youre doing what good players trying to build a lasting community do to keep small factions viable. You are using in game mechanics to help them along untill they seem a good option for new players to go with. This is what some of us have been clamoring for for a while. We dont need some wierd bonus fake mechanics to entice people to play a faction we just need to do what youre doing.

My clan via pm offered france and spain our assistance more than once doing privateer work but the players never responded and we havent tried again.

What you are doing could work well. Our clan used to work and help any US player we saw who was under attack from brits and we all worked well for months untill two US clans started attacking us so we had to stop.

Good luck in your plan.

 

 

Thank you for your interest Gentlemen,

 

I've had a great response up to this point and so far the Clans involved will be DSSC(French), BLACK(Pirate), DREGZ(U.S.) and Juan( KING of Spain)

 

 

I Hope to see Representatives From all Nations to discuss the mutual benefits to Sustainability.

Edited July 22, 2016 by Harley Davidson

[Cpt Blackthorne]

May I propose a 3-Port-Capital-Zone restriction (maybe 4 ports)?

Each nation would have their capital and two/three other ports near their capital to remain in their possession and would be a PvP-Free zone, allowing these nation to remain prosperous enough to maintain a presence on the map.

• As an example, perhaps the Dutch would want Fort Oranje and Coro, France perhaps would want Saint-Piere and Marin, Sweden - Philipsburg and Oranjestad, Danes - Fredriksted and Coral Bay, Pirates - Islet and Little Inagua, Brits - Carlisle and Port Morant, Spain - Mariel and Matanzas, US - Beaufort and Georgetown.
• Ports chosen by nations must be within 1 port hop from capital.
• Anything in-between the two furthest ports to their capital would remain a PvP gank-free zone.

If we cannot agree to the PvP free zone, then at the very least we can provide 2-3 ports for each nation that are protected from capture. Because capitals cannot be captured, there is no "end game", no "objective" to Naval Action, and therefore no nation can "win". So let's stop trying to conqure everything as though we can win.

Example maps in the spoiler

[Harley Davidson]

Hello,

The Leaders of the Largest Clans will be meeting tomorrow (Saturday 22nd) to discuss the importance of Small nations and the importance of keeping them health for new players to
join.  The discussion will be hosted by Linguine mike on his TS server. Many Nations will be attending and hopefully a representative of your clans can come and be apart of it.

This will happen around 7PST on Saturday..

Please mail me back if interested and I can coordinate to bring you to the discussion


TS address will be: 

 

silverbolt16.bluefangsolutions.com

      


Cheers,
Harley

[Legia]

Linguine Mike will be using his TS Server to host this...   Please message him.   I will post his TS address later today.  

 

 

Just a small note that is it Aargos' TS, not Mike's so direct questions to him!

[angriff]

I do have concern about the game with things like this.  It means that decisions to allow certain towns to be one country or the other is decided by a few large clans.  Then in the mix is that these clans want to continue to PVP against merchants and other Flag ships.  This is not a true treaty.  

 

I think the Devs idea is a bit better where the alliance produces a true bond for attacking and defending.  An alliance attack would create a pirate.   

 

Having no ports is not such a big deal anymore since smuggling can maintain the economy of players. True you may not be able to have some buildings to get things at extremely low prices but that system has almost ruined raw trading fun with players dumping huge amounts of commodities on towns that cant consume it for days on end.

 

Anyway I can appreciate your help for the French effort.  Such type of cooperation on a smaller basis as yours is a good thing. 

[Aargos]

I do have concern about the game with things like this.  It means that decisions to allow certain towns to be one country or the other is decided by a few large clans.  Then in the mix is that these clans want to continue to PVP against merchants and other Flag ships.  This is not a true treaty.  

 

I think the Devs idea is a bit better where the alliance produces a true bond for attacking and defending.  An alliance attack would create a pirate.   

 

Having no ports is not such a big deal anymore since smuggling can maintain the economy of players. True you may not be able to have some buildings to get things at extremely low prices but that system has almost ruined raw trading fun with players dumping huge amounts of commodities on towns that cant consume it for days on end.

 

Anyway I can appreciate your help for the French effort.  Such type of cooperation on a smaller basis as yours is a good thing. 

I do agree that when the new system is implemented into the game it will make the politics of the game better, however that is not our intent here.  The intent is to try to make our server more appealing to those who would rather play one of the smaller countries but choose not to since they don't have any ports.  I have personally talked to players who have gone to the other PVP server for this reason.  That is where not having any ports for specific countries is a bigger deal.  What we hope to accomplish is to make our server more inviting for new players and for older players that may want to come back.  We are not trying to set up treaties between countries either.  The idea is to have safe zones other than the capital for new players to learn the game, however that does not mean we are suggesting no PVP in those areas.   We are not suggesting to change the dynamics of the game, just want to have a discussion on how to make this server more appealing and hopefully get more numbers which is what we need to make sure that the devs don't merge us with the other server.

[Cpt Blackthorne]

I do have concern about the game with things like this.  It means that decisions to allow certain towns to be one country or the other is decided by a few large clans.  Then in the mix is that these clans want to continue to PVP against merchants and other Flag ships.  This is not a true treaty. 

As I suggested, a full treaty might not be available due to rogue nationals, but at least leaving a few ports to small nations would indeed help. Also, as a new player, I would assume it might be more enticing to join a nation that has a few ports, rather than only their capital. And to combat these rogue nationals who might take these easy ports on their own, those in his nation could certainly go smuggler and blockade him from planting the flag. And even further, those of his nation could remain smuggler to kill him as he attempts capping traders from the alliance nation. After he was sunk by his own nation a few times, I would suspect he would quit his rogue acts of piracy against allied nations.

 

I think the Devs idea is a bit better where the alliance produces a true bond for attacking and defending.  An alliance attack would create a pirate.  

We are still weeks out from this patch, unfortunately. I can't wait for it tho.

 

Having no ports is not such a big deal anymore since smuggling can maintain the economy of players. True you may not be able to have some buildings to get things at extremely low prices but that system has almost ruined raw trading fun with players dumping huge amounts of commodities on towns that cant consume it for days on end.

True indeed, but as I mentioned above, enticing new players into that nation with a few ports, rather than only one, might help.

 

Anyway I can appreciate your help for the French effort.  Such type of cooperation on a smaller basis as yours is a good thing. 

[Neverdead Ned]

I'll be on just a little after 4pm and if Benny of the ANZAC clan can't make it, I have his proxy.

[angriff]

I do agree that when the new system is implemented into the game it will make the politics of the game better, however that is not our intent here.  The intent is to try to make our server more appealing to those who would rather play one of the smaller countries but choose not to since they don't have any ports.  I have personally talked to players who have gone to the other PVP server for this reason.  That is where not having any ports for specific countries is a bigger deal.  What we hope to accomplish is to make our server more inviting for new players and for older players that may want to come back.  We are not trying to set up treaties between countries either.  The idea is to have safe zones other than the capital for new players to learn the game, however that does not mean we are suggesting no PVP in those areas.   We are not suggesting to change the dynamics of the game, just want to have a discussion on how to make this server more appealing and hopefully get more numbers which is what we need to make sure that the devs don't merge us with the other server.

Is that all it is? A safe zone for new players?  Seems like allot of effort just for that.  The French mananged to win back some ports by shear effort.  If a country has only 2 or 3 players not sure if the extra towns help them at all.  

[Cpt Blackthorne]

Is that all it is? A safe zone for new players?  Seems like allot of effort just for that.  The French mananged to win back some ports by shear effort.  If a country has only 2 or 3 players not sure if the extra towns help them at all.  

The Dutch have only 2 Rear Admirals, who play every few days. How would this not help them to acquire new players if they had at least a couple extra ports? And why are there always people who say peace is more effort than war? Especially when all that is being asked for is peace near capitals and new players?

[Aargos]

Is that all it is? A safe zone for new players?  Seems like allot of effort just for that.  The French mananged to win back some ports by shear effort.  If a country has only 2 or 3 players not sure if the extra towns help them at all.  

Again you miss understand.  We are not looking for a safe zone for new players.  I believe, if you are in your boat out in the open world then PVP is fair game.  We are not suggesting that we force any kind of Treaty.  What we are suggesting is a Port battle free zone to show anyone that comes onto this server that there are more than just 4 countries to play as.  If someone wants to be Spain because they are Spanish for example, right now there is NO incentive for them to stick around.  We are trying to look at the big picture for the gaming community on this server, not just the 2 or 3 that may be here now.  The more players we can potentially get in the smaller countries the more dynamic the entire game experience gets, and that is when the new political system thats coming will actually be interesting and worth something.

[Neverdead Ned]

Can someone pm me the TS info for the meeting?

[angriff]

So what happened?  Inquiring Minds Want to Know 

[Æthlstan]

If france wasnt dead the danish would never have been able to take all of the ports. The thing is, all 3 RvR clans left, and  I can only assume that the 2 crafting clans also disappeared as theyre never online when I check in.

 

We left because our enemies left, we had been taking enemy ports and it was going to be nothing but empty port after empty port.

 

The steam sale seems to have brought some new blood, but I can't see it being anything but a string of endless small or empty port battles for France or any small nation to "come back"

 

 

Props to the folks that are trying to regrow the nation, but know that its doubtful the original french clans will come back. Especially if France is a vassal of one of the big powers. Thats boring.

[angriff]

If france wasnt dead the danish would never have been able to take all of the ports. The thing is, all 3 RvR clans left, and  I can only assume that the 2 crafting clans also disappeared as theyre never online when I check in.

 

We left because our enemies left, we had been taking enemy ports and it was going to be nothing but empty port after empty port.

 

The steam sale seems to have brought some new blood, but I can't see it being anything but a string of endless small or empty port battles for France or any small nation to "come back"

 

 

Props to the folks that are trying to regrow the nation, but know that its doubtful the original french clans will come back. Especially if France is a vassal of one of the big powers. Thats boring.

 

 

Well I will address the last statement first.  France is not a vassal state of the big powers.  France players banded together in a hodgepodge method with one central clan that made the difference raising the attack strength from 3 to 11.  In this banding they took back four pirate ports in 7 battles.  Only two of which that I know the Americans had one large vessel acting as screen.  The a single Spanish of the line and a single US ship of the line joined the French on a failed battle but was the deciding factor in my opinion.   Once the Pirates learned they were being attacked by all factions including the French and Spanish they realized they could not sustain their expansion along the South American coastline.  The costs in ships was unsustainable and their numbers were never more than 10.  

 

So the American hero (the original poster)  along with some French decided to start this defacto setting of the map rules.  This is outside the mechanics of the game and if it is not in the mechanics it is not sustainable.  However, they feel it will promote more users by allowing players who would like to play French or Spanish or Dutch to play those countries with some level of trading and building mines and plantations like the rest of the dominating nation players.  It is an effort to grow player base nothing more.  

 

Will it be successful?  I cannot tell you.  It will make only a small difference in my gameplay. The steep learning curve in this game and the long time players have to be online is a major impediment to large volumes of players.  .

 

I have been part of the original expansion of France territories, missing for the fall then returned with just one port for France but the smuggler flag.  The smuggler flag is the deciding difference for me.  France is from the start a difficult team to play and they game devs say that in the selection of teams.  The French lost the Americas before teleporting was not a 3 hour restriction.  It was impossible for a large nation in FR to defend against the Americans rolling the coastline.   I was apart of several large port battles in a one sided expansion of the French territories.  There were many many French and no opposition.  It is no opposition or variety that lost the majority of French players.  Port battles are the only player attractor in this game.  There is no other way to know where the enemy is other than guessing to go it alone and that is not fun either as well as being expensive.

 

This game rewards time playing, trading and fighting.  That is it.  There is some reward in crafting but for the most part all players craft for their clan and selves.   Crafting for a player market is not diverse enough to make it interesting as a crafter and it is severely time limited into a tedious waiting game with crafting hours.  That is why most crafter guilds left.  What is left is a mix of traders and fighters but mostly traders that know how to fight for the French.   No other nation that I have seen has had such an up and down history in the US server.  No other nation has had such a flavor of success, defeat and triumphs.  Playing France is probably one of the most interesting and fun aspects of this game that those in large clan full countries have experienced nor do they understand the appeal. 

[Neverdead Ned]

First of all, let me say thank you to all who attended the meeting.  All nations were represented.   It's nice to see how many people care for the health of our server and all of its factions.  I'd also like to thank our TS hosts for allowing us to use their Arma server.

 

Let me give a brief outline of what we proposed and agreed upon.  Some of the minutia still needs to be hashed out between effected parties but we think we have something which is workable.

 

1.  A minimum of 5 ports shall be left for any nation at war.  They do not have to be specific ports.

 

2.  Any clan from any nation, who attacks  a port beyond the minimum number, shall have a bounty placed upon its members and be hunted down by all the other countries.  The other countries will then assist the negatively effected nation      to get its port back after the cool down is over.

 

3.  British clans in the Antilles have agreed to stop taking Danish ports temporarily  and drop claims to permanent ports in Puerto Rico in return for the Danes ceding ports back to the Swedish Nation.  The Pirate nation has agreed to stop taking Dutch ports beyond a certain city (can't  remember which).     The US member has tentatively agreed to cede US ports on northern Cuba back to Spain.

 

4.  No larger nation can take advantage of an allied nation with the minimum number of ports to fight a proxy war on the larger nation's behalf.

 

5.  Mutually Assured Destruction - any nation who doesn't comply with these rules, shall be faced with war from all of the other nations combined until it does comply.

 

6.   A time limit of 48 hours was established as a short deadline to meet some of these conditions with another meeting to be held on TS in a week to discuss progress and make modifications.  I'd like to see that deadline extended for the full week to make sure that our goals are achievable.

 

7.  Most importantly, THIS IS NOT A PEACE AGREEMENT!  We are all still at war and we expect ports to be taken and ships to be sunk.  This is just some rules of engagement to help retain and possibly even grow the population in the smaller nations.

 

I hope I covered it all and got it all correctly.

Edited July 24, 2016 by ASinclair

[Cpt Blackthorne]

It is no opposition or variety that lost the majority of French players.  Port battles are the only player attractor in this game.  There is no other way to know where the enemy is other than guessing to go it alone and that is not fun either as well as being expensive.

I would suggest if full PvP and PB battles are ideal to some French, then perhaps they should take ports nearer enemy. Of recent, they have been taking ports way down in the corner where a rarity of pirates are, as they are all attacking the east coast of US. The Danes are finding plenty of action against the Brits just to the north of France.The sailing distance from their NW front to a SE front against France is about the same, less than a day.

[angriff]

I would suggest if full PvP and PB battles are ideal to some French, then perhaps they should take ports nearer enemy. Of recent, they have been taking ports way down in the corner where a rarity of pirates are, as they are all attacking the east coast of US. The Danes are finding plenty of action against the Brits just to the north of France.The sailing distance from their NW front to a SE front against France is about the same, less than a day.

The reason that the French took the lower bay was because the Dutch place all their timers at a time when nobody is on the server because they are non US Players.  It is also because they wanted a relatively safe are to begin trade so that they could build the larger ships that all the Pirates already have.

 

it is the bane of this game these worthless timers.  Just limit the amount of towns that can be taken based on the server population and it changes the scenario so that all time zones can take and retake towns.   The Devs are not sure what to do can be seen in their comments of the new hard rules for WAR.  I played a game that was losing players for 4 years of sudden map runs then has made its way through more11 years after they change the early rules of unlimited town taking and based it on server population.  

 

Simple Rules

If there are loads of players online then each faction can take 3 to 5 or more towns

If there are no players for a side then only 1 town can be taken

If there are only a few players on a faction then a couple (2) towns can be taken.  

 

If you cant take a town then PVP search or Go Fish!  

Edited July 24, 2016 by angriff

[Mrdoomed]

The reason that the French took the lower bay was because the Dutch place all their timers at a time when nobody is on the server because they are non US Players. It is also because they wanted a relatively safe are to begin trade so that they could build the larger ships that all the Pirates already have.

it is the bane of this game these worthless timers. Just limit the amount of towns that can be taken based on the server population and it changes the scenario so that all time zones can take and retake towns. The Devs are not sure what to do can be seen in their comments of the new hard rules for WAR. I played a game that was losing players for 4 years of sudden map runs then has made its way through more11 years after they change the early rules of unlimited town taking and based it on server population.

Simple Rules

If there are loads of players online then each faction can take 3 to 5 or more towns

If there are no players for a side then only 1 town can be taken

If there are only a few players on a faction then a couple (2) towns can be taken.

If you cant take a town then PVP search or Go Fish!

Or simply limit the amount of ports taken to x a day.