The Grapes of Wrath - Grape v Boarding Prep Test

[Jeheil]

Caught a comment in forums that when firing grape at a ship that is boarding prep'd their armour doesn't count to protect the crew from Grapes.

 

Seemed appropriate to test this with the Bucentaure. It certainly does more damage...but not the 250 dead and injured that happened IRL !!

 

Now this was a broadside test, we all know that you will clock 90odd+ on a stern.

 

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Ignores armour but not the structure. Aim the open decks please.

 

Nice testing

[BungeeLemming]

preparing for boarding results in more crew hitboxes on your weatherdecks.

Means you have to shoot where they run to, not onto the sides. I mean.. there are like 60+cm armor.

Aim at that level. Shoot the bulwarks or just a tiiiny bit over the decks. Just to make sure you hit where the crew is supposed to be.

 

Also you better use locked sector at that range. No need to concentrate on one point when the crew is spread all over the ship.

hitboxes after all are somehow depleted when your ship is loosing crew. (not sure about the exact mechnic tho)

 

Ive never heard about a mechanic ignoring armor. quote please

[Jeheil]

It was a mod in one of the bajillion posts I read, I shall try and find it...I was like oooo hence the test.

 

My second set of shots were all at deck level.

 

After the vid I also did stern shots which if no armour was present would have killed 90...they too only killed 30

[Jeheil]

Found it

 

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/15296-determined-defender-doesn´t-work/?p=283452

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Nice.

 

Yes, "if it gets through".

 

I think it is a "language" thing and the way it gets "misinterpreted" as well.

That's why it is excellent to test kudos for that.

 

My wild guess, I do use grape all the time, is -  Armour as per Teak/Planking/Extra planking is ignored. Wood thickness is still there, as the structural strength doesn't get vaporized.

[Jeheil]

Yeh the test was meant to see if it was akin to blootering a no armour ship....and...it wasn't...it was better but not the same like if you slap a ship with no armour.

 

We put 250 corpses into a vic with their armour at 20% with grape during boarding.

[BungeeLemming]

hmm.. interesting.

I thought my knowledge was profound. Obviously not.

 

However. locking your guns is doing what I described.

You should try and aim with the 3rd person view. (hold right (i believe?) mousebutton). This elevates your guns horizontally and in a perfect 90° angle to your ship. (or do it yourself but its never going to be as precise)

Given you stand next to each other like in your video you should stand a high chance of hitting the guns and guncrews.

 

worth a try?

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Yeh the test was meant to see if it was akin to blootering a no armour ship....and...it wasn't...it was better but not the same like if you slap a ship with no armour.

 

We put 250 corpses into a vic with their armour at 20% with grape during boarding.

 

Armour =/= structure

[Jeheil]

Sorry you are correct...their structure down to 20%...their armour doesn't change.

 

I will play some more with it and if I unlock any secret sauce get back to things.

 

And I will also try unlocked/locked although tbh for this test at 50 meters, if you look at the spread of damage....on first shot at cannon line....it is spread across the breadth of his ship.

 

PS. The graphic looks like ball.

Edited July 21, 2016 by Jeheil

[BungeeLemming]

the armor actually does change.

its relative to the HP left. Not sure if its 20% structure -> 20% armor but the structural integrety does affect the armor value.

After all the HP represents the state of your ship. the more holes you have the lesser you are protected against shooting.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

the armor actually does change.

its relative to the HP left. Not sure if its 20% structure -> 20% armor but the structural integrety does affect the armor value.

After all the HP represents the state of your ship. the more holes you have the lesser you are protected against shooting.

 

That is correct and it is the combination that kills. Shattered timbers won't stop much

[akd]

preparing for boarding results in more crew hitboxes on your weatherdecks.

 

...

 

Ive never heard about a mechanic ignoring armor. quote please

 

It was direct quote from admin.  Apparently the originally discussed idea to increase crew / crew hit boxes on open decks was not implemented and they instead decided to allow grape to bypass armor for some reason.

[BungeeLemming]

hmm.. interesting.

I thought my knowledge was profound. Obviously not.

mind reading my reply, AKD?

I already admitted that I was wrong

[Jeheil]

the armor actually does change.

its relative to the HP left. Not sure if its 20% structure -> 20% armor but the structural integrety does affect the armor value.

After all the HP represents the state of your ship. the more holes you have the lesser you are protected against shooting.

 

Wait...hang on...

 

So firstly from a 'sim' perspective the fact your port side looks more like a teabag than a wall of wood should indeed infer a weakened structural integrity...but let me make sure i understand this correctly.

 

I will use round numbers to keep things simple.

 

A FULLY healthy undamaged ship with armour (thickness) of 70 is hit by a 10lb ball that does 50 damage at a range that would not penetrate. No damage is done to its structure (health) AT ALL.

 

The exact same ships, at the exact same ranges, however the FULLY healthy ship is no longer fully healthy and has entered battle with only, lets say 20% of its structure (health) in tact. If it is shot at the same range with the same 10lb ball this will now penetrate and do damage (to either and crew and structure/health) ?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?

Edited July 22, 2016 by Jeheil

[BungeeLemming]

its a very easy but understandable example, Jeheil.

And your correct.

Thats how it works.

HP should be seen as an abstract number which represents the ability to resist incoming fire and keep the ship afloat. Basically the structural integrity of the vessel.

 

You can very easily observe this with grapeshot. Shoot it at a 100%HP ship. Then get his side down to lets say 20-35% and shoot him again. There should be a very noticable difference in dmge numbers.

 

Some time ago the devs also wrote that guns are easier dismantled. However thats long ago and might be obsolete wth the new dmge models.