Manual Sails

[Albiorix]

Hi. Ich have a question about manual sails. Are they for real? Ich mean in real life. Do ships with sails use sails the same way to turn a bit faster?

Thx for an answer and sorry if this topic already exists.

Booom | Albiorix

Flag Captain of his Majesty

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

Maybe not to the degree that we use it in game, but yes, an unbalanced rig setting in real life will assist/hinder a ship attempting to turn. These ships can, in fact, be steered fairly well without a rudder at all (on most points of sail).

[maturin]

 

 

Hi. Ich have a question about manual sails. Are they for real? Ich mean in real life. Do ships with sails use sails the same way to turn a bit faster?

Thx for an answer and sorry if this topic already exists. 

The manual sails have the same sort of effect that they would in real life, although the reality is more complex. For instance, in many cases ships would be unable to turn at all without using 'manual sails,' because the rig balance would overrule the rudder. This might happen in very light or very strong winds, or to a temperamental vessel with trim issues.

 

It's hard to know how useful the game's maneuvers would be with a real square rigger, since modern tall ships are not at war and try to avoid doing things as fast as humanly possible. It's dangerous and it makes you break things.

 

Most of the 'manual sails' maneuvers we carry out in game are really thought of as discrete 'evolutions' in real live. Either tacking or wearing to bring the ship around on a new tack. It just so happens that these evolutions also involve the ship making the tightest circle it is capable of turning, in either an upwind or downwind direction.

 

So in short, these yard movements do enable a square rigger to maximize its maneuverability IRL.

[AKPyrate]

Hi. Ich have a question about manual sails. Are they for real? Ich mean in real life. Do ships with sails use sails the same way to turn a bit faster?

Thx for an answer and sorry if this topic already exists.

Booom | Albiorix

Flag Captain of his Majesty

 

Yes, they are fairly realistic in many cases.  Here is a great video showing Star of India tacking and wearing with a description of each step of the evolution.  Though she's not a warship, is iron, is a barque, and there was a tremendous amount of design evolution between our time period and hers, it really is only a difference of 50 years.  The process is essentially the same on any vessel of our era (taking into account the various rigs, peculiarities of each individual ship, crew and captain's preferences).  One thing to note, I have seen another video of a vessel (iirc, it was the Sorlandet, but don't quote me on that) that performed maneuvers with her courses set instead of raising them up first.  I'd imagine that it would cause more wear and tear on the sail and possibly lower rigging, as well as cause possible snags, but in the lighter airs that they were showing, it worked just fine.  I don't know that vessel's setup and she's a more modern ship than Star of India, so it may be one of those evolutionary changes over the next 50 years or so.

[maturin]

Ships in the period of the game would perform evolutions with courses set, when necessary. AFAIK you just have to have more men on deck to drag the tack around and subdue the clews and yard. I imagine in some cases you wouldn't want to sacrifice any sail area by clewing it up.

 

In any case, it's no mystery why modern tall ships tend to dispense with such a labor-intensive part of the operation.

[Skully]

Please stop talking about the realism of manual sailing in game. I don't want to set the rigging and take at least 5 minutes to tack in battle.

I very much like what we have except that the jib is connected to main when I set my mains.

Edited July 22, 2016 by Skully

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Only thing I would touch would be the yard turning force/speed at all sails pre-determined setups, slow, battle, etc.

[Niels Terkildsen]

Faster yard turning when having less sails set might be a way to make battle sails more used (would require less crew to effectively turn the yards, meaning gunnery can be focused). Thinking about it, I find it a bit crazy that most battles are carried out exclusively with full sails.

[VonVolks]

Thinking about it, I find it a bit crazy that most battles are carried out exclusively with full sails.

 

Only by silly people

[angriff]

Actually the video showing the star india was very helpful.  Though you cannot slack the jibs or pull tight the spanker you can use the main sails in the same fashion.  I have managed to tack in a 2nd rate while moving less than 1 knot.  Before I used to power through at high speeds and if I was not fast enough I would not try it.  Now I just push the bow around and when I slow to 1 knot I push the after masts to the side after the tack.  Leaving the Foremast still  on the old tack and it pushes the bow around   The ship's stern begins to move just like in real because of the two aft sails position.  Once the bow is around you push the for mast around and you start to accelerate on the new tack.  

 

It takes timing if you push the fore mast too early you will stall and start to retreat.  If that happens then opposite rudder and once the bow crosses over then push the foremast to the new tack and off you go.  

 

Easy Huh