Results of a healthy talk on the state of Naval Action..

[Pagan Pete]

So, 

 

I were haven a fireside chat with some respected captains n admirals (Don't ask me how I broke into the gentleman's club) We talked at length, point n counter point, about what we (as players) want in our naval action.

Here be our wish list. 

 

Bear with me here, as a lot of these points are interactive with one another, to a grand and glorious result we hopes.

 

For the goal of making naval Action more immersive (without becoming a simulator) The distinguished gentlemen (and me) would like to get rid of the Perks. Perks were put in to help the boardin mini-game. But the mini-game has to go too! Two problems solved at once. Why? Perks reduce the immersion in the game. There be no magical forcefields that prevented a smaller crew from grappling and boarding a ship. Ai fleet ships are also a problem for the new captains or historical reenactor captains. Not even all the Spanish treasure galleons got escort ships! And even if the presence of AI fleets don't encourage players to group up into "Gank" fleets, they CERTAINLY don't discourage them as they can no longer take a trade ship solo.

 

Aslo, to increase immersion, Deadly storms! These would be relatively simple to survive, when ye do the right thing… Shorten sail and turn yer bow into the waves. Player ships that wreck in a storm.. become shipwrecks for others to salvage! =oD  Also… If we divide the loot from a prize ship amongst the captains AND the crewmen involved in taking a ship… we will motivate captains to sail smaller boats with smaller crews, and also to avoid huge Gank fleets. This also helps new players by giving them a nice high yield on their prize ships, getting them started in the game. 

 

And finally, we come to the Pyrate problem and the national "hemorrhaging to the Black". We discussed, at great length, how these are really aspects of the same problem. If the game controls War footing, smaller nations will be able to survive without getting crushed into oblivion (like Spain and Sweden did on PVP-1.When certain nations were crushed, many of them turned into pyrates, or even quit the game!)   For example if France and Spain are not at war, you cannot attack their ports. You can still attack their ships, to keep the game action packed! 

 

To help reverse the current deluge of pyrates, brought about as above, It is necessary to offer Amnesty to all captains, so that they may rejoin their nations once more, and see their families again. The amnesty will return ALL of their goods to them probably as redeemable, or give them the equivalent in currency. 

 

As for pyrates themselves, we want to encourage historical pyrate behaviors! (beyond drinking and debauchery). Pyrates should not get ports. But can access ports of a particular nation as smugglers. There they can sell their ill gotten gains, purchase supplies, repair vessels etc. Pyrates cannot take ports, but can take place in port battles as a privateer (Invited by the nations involved) to gain loot and fame! Pyrates cannot craft ships above 7th rate. They must STEAL their way up the food chain. And accordingly, pyrates must pay out portions of the prize ship much more so than other nations (because the did!) this will reside the number of pyrates who can afford to sail ships of the line. 

 

• Wed like to see and end to the boarding mini-game, AND the perks. 
• We want to force groups to share their loot amongst all captains AND CREW in a group. 
• We want to see the END of pyrates as a nation. No ports or port battles
• We want Amnesty offered for pyrates, so men who joined because their nations got crushed, can go back home.
• We want pyrates to have to capture their ships, above 7th rate.
• We want deadly storms. simple to get out of, but makes it more immersive.
• We want to END ai fleets.
• Make Declarations of War controlled by the game, not individuals.

 

 

Now, that there be a whole lot to discuss, and Im sure I forgot a thing or two. Pull up a chair, have a rum, and lets work to "Make Naval Action Great Again!"

 

PP

[Powderhorn]

Perks were put in to help the boardin mini-game. But the mini-game has to go too! Two problems solved at once. Why? Perks reduce the immersion in the game. There be no magical forcefields that prevented a smaller crew from grappling and boarding a ship. Ai fleet ships are also a problem for the new captains or historical reenactor captains. Not even all the Spanish treasure galleons got escort ships! And even if the presence of AI fleets don't encourage players to group up into "Gank" fleets, they CERTAINLY don't discourage them as they can no longer take a trade ship solo.

 

That seems like an extraordinarily narrow view of perks.  They're not just about boarding.  Fleets themselves are something many people want gone, but many people want to stay.  Why toss them instead of working to make them more fun for all?

 

Aslo, to increase immersion, Deadly storms! These would be relatively simple to survive, when ye do the right thing… Shorten sail and turn yer bow into the waves. Player ships that wreck in a storm.. become shipwrecks for others to salvage! =oD  Also… If we divide the loot from a prize ship amongst the captains AND the crewmen involved in taking a ship… we will motivate captains to sail smaller boats with smaller crews, and also to avoid huge Gank fleets. This also helps new players by giving them a nice high yield on their prize ships, getting them started in the game. 

 

Again, two points to the paragraph.  Storms and wrecks would be nice.  Dividing loot between Captain and Crew just means that Captains who fight instead of doing econ will be perpetually poor.  Historically accurate without incomes from lands, I suspect, but I'm not sure how that makes a better game.  All this seems to motivate as an apathy for money.  Again, perhaps not a bad thing, but, I'm not sure that it would encourage people to sail anything small.

 

 

And finally, we come to the Pyrate problem and the national "hemorrhaging to the Black". We discussed, at great length, how these are really aspects of the same problem. If the game controls War footing, smaller nations will be able to survive without getting crushed into oblivion (like Spain and Sweden did on PVP-1.When certain nations were crushed, many of them turned into pyrates, or even quit the game!)   For example if France and Spain are not at war, you cannot attack their ports. You can still attack their ships, to keep the game action packed! 

 

So, the solution to making people stop going pirate is not to make it lossless (after all, people can keep everything they have if they go pirate), but instead to make it so that other nations aren't crushed?  This doesn't resolve the issue of "I'm taking my ball and playing elsewhere," as seen by many entire clans defecting to go pirate when an issue doesn't go their way.

 

 

To help reverse the current deluge of pyrates, brought about as above, It is necessary to offer Amnesty to all captains, so that they may rejoin their nations once more, and see their families again. The amnesty will return ALL of their goods to them probably as redeemable, or give them the equivalent in currency. 

 

A wipe will likely come before the final release.  Consider that an amnesty

 

 

As for pyrates themselves, we want to encourage historical pyrate behaviors! (beyond drinking and debauchery). Pyrates should not get ports. But can access ports of a particular nation as smugglers. There they can sell their ill gotten gains, purchase supplies, repair vessels etc. Pyrates cannot take ports, but can take place in port battles as a privateer (Invited by the nations involved) to gain loot and fame! Pyrates cannot craft ships above 7th rate. They must STEAL their way up the food chain. And accordingly, pyrates must pay out portions of the prize ship much more so than other nations (because the did!) this will reside the number of pyrates who can afford to sail ships of the line. 

 

You're describing three loose groups of individuals - Smugglers, Privateers, and Pirates.  All of them have been called "Pirates" by those that they harm, historically, but the term becomes muddied when you use it in such a way.  Perhaps instead there should simply be Smugglers (a perk potential, though you seem to have some abhorrence towards perks), Privateers as you describe them (given a Letter of Marque from a nation), and Nationless Men.  Everyone seems to think the first two fall into the category of the last, but the only people who would be universally referred to as pirates are those who willfully threw off the law of nations.

[Prater]

What would be the alternative to boarding?

 

 

 

That seems like an extraordinarily narrow view of perks.  They're not just about boarding.

 

Correct, but some of the other perks are pretty weird themselves, but GL has said the perks are still WIP and will be changed.  Yes, I think Pagan's response of "getting rid of" isn't quite the right response, and instead a rework would do.

[Kronans]

• Wed like to see and end to the boarding mini-game, AND the perks. /Think thise shall be there maybe not getting ships but cash for it for all ai and pvp

• We want to force groups to share their loot amongst all captains AND CREW in a group.  /nice ide like it

We want to see the END of pyrates as a nation. No ports or port battles / like thise but those that want to be pirates cant take ports only raid dem

We want Amnesty offered for pyrates, so men who joined because their nations got crushed, can go back home. /Go for that

We want pyrates to have to capture their ships, above 7th rate. /I was going for above 4 rates  for that nation

We want deadly storms. simple to get out of, but makes it more immersive. /deadly storms???? never seen a storm ingame that have sunk my ship

We want to END ai fleets. /it will give more pvp yes but all dont want to do pvp all the time and new players need the pve.

Make Declarations of War controlled by the game, not individuals. / agree cant be some players that deicide these need to be more.

[Potemkin]

As things stand now im all for the game deciding war declarations. As for the boarding perks keep in mind that while marines were definitely effective they weren't the T1000 terminators we have in-game. I think the perks were put in place to make it imperative to immobilize and grape down crew instead of just rage boarding. That being said im willing to test out whatever i dont usually aim to board. Im 100% for the storms, but they shouldnt last real-time hours like they seem to now. If they do implement storms i can see global on that first day being one huge meltdown from lost rates lol.

[Blackjack Morgan]

 

• Wed like to see and end to the boarding mini-game, AND the perks.  I'd say they just need to refined a bit more.....this was the introduction of officer perks and I think it is fair to expect improvement as we progress in development.
• We want to force groups to share their loot amongst all captains AND CREW in a group.  
• We want to see the END of pyrates as a nation. No ports or port battles  I think it's going to be changed more into a port raid mechanic so I've heard....as far as a "nation" goes that really is more of an abstract notion in NA than anything else. 
• We want Amnesty offered for pyrates, so men who joined because their nations got crushed, can go back home. I'd agree with this notion as well 
• We want pyrates to have to capture their ships, above 7th rate.  Personally, I'd say above 4th rate otherwise definitely need the amnesty so can switch to national....don't want to sail a fishing boat everyday pvp'ing against ships that can't shoot back
• We want deadly storms. simple to get out of, but makes it more immersive.  No thanks on this one....I just wear an eye patch when I want immersion
• We want to END ai fleets.  I have never supported ai fleets but if I had to be honest they really have not been as annoying this go round as they used to be
• Make Declarations of War controlled by the game, not individuals.  I think this one sounds good but not so sure it would be in practice....would like to see what they have in mind when the diplo patch comes out

 

 

 

[Cmdr RideZ]

• Wed like to see and end to the boarding mini-game, AND the perks. 

I agree that the boarding mini-game is broken.  I think the perk like defender is broken as well, but as long as the mini-game is that broken, the defender is a good perk to have.  It just makes the guys to work a bit.  Not just ram with the gold marines.

 

Other perks are a bit out of balance, and definitely needs refining.  Like Coward makes escaping way too easy.  Pirate & Pirate Hunter perks are not as good as Master perks, and are even 1 point more expensive.  But I suppose that would be own subject, and am sure they will fix these anyway.

 

Maybe the players have to press a button, to throw the grappling hooks from one broadside.  If there is too much speed, it can be that the hooks break.  Or if you do not hit well, you have to wait that they roll the hooks back on board before you can throw those again.  Maybe to have a specific amount of grappling hooks with you.

Maybe you just hit with 1 hook, and it will break.

If you get a hit with the hooks, the enemy starts to cut the ropes.  With boarding axes you do that faster.  With muskets the other player can counter the rope cutters.

etc.

 

But indeed, we need way better boarding mechanism.

 

 

• We want to force groups to share their loot amongst all captains AND CREW in a group. 

This is something that could be working already.  The money we get from what ever atm., is already divided between the crew.  Or is it?

 

 

• We want to see the END of pyrates as a nation. No ports or port battles

I agree.  Raiding would be nice to have, BUT, even without raiding would be better than what we have atm.

 

 

• We want Amnesty offered for pyrates, so men who joined because their nations got crushed, can go back home.

I agree.  Just have some long cooldown, like a month or something similar.

 

 

• We want pyrates to have to capture their ships, above 7th rate.

I kinda like the idea, but...  There are 25 vs 25 port battles, that are all 1st rates.  It can be that I did not listen enough on my history classes, but I think there was never 25 vs 25 battles of 1st rates in real life?

 

So the waters are filled with more and with bigger ships than in real life, if I have understood this correctly.  I think that pirates should not follow exactly what was historical, and one reason would be that they will be facing far numerous enemy.  But I would be personally ok if Pirate Frigate would be the biggest ship the pirates can craft.

 

Simplest implementation would be to add 1 new level of shipyards.  1 are the small ships, 2 ends to Pirate Frigate, and 3 and 4 will cover the rest.  Then just limit pirates to shipyard levels 1 and 2.

 

 

• We want deadly storms. simple to get out of, but makes it more immersive.

I would like that there are even bigger storms than what we have atm. and that the weather outside defines the weather in the battle.

I would not mind if the storms in OW would break your ship, or it would take damage from that, even to sink you.  I still do not see this as a mandatory feature, it is ok, but nothing important.

Reason why I see it could be useful is a different one... It could be a fix to AFK fishermen doing circles in the middle of the sea 24/7.

I believe there could be other fixes to that one as well, but could do the job as well.

 

 

• We want to END ai fleets.

PvP server should not have the fleets.  PvE can have those.

If on PvP servers, I think the traders should not be able to get the fleets.

On PvP, if you have a treasure galleon, find players to escort you.

 

AI fleets could actually attack the players, on PvE, but not on PvP.

 

What I have fought against other players with AI ships, the AI ships are really not that good atm.  That is why, maybe, it would be ok to have those, but not with the traders.

 

• Make Declarations of War controlled by the game, not individuals.

This is mandatory.  When players are hammering one nation to oblivion, they wont stop there.  Needs someone who checks that.. Ok, nation A has suffered and needs a bit time to recover, so lets give them a break here.  Yes, it may not be realistic, but for the gameplay, most probably a mandatory feature.  It also helps the smaller nations to stay in the game.

 

Pirates should be in "war" all the time against every other nation.

Edited July 19, 2016 by Cmdr RideZ

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

One step at a time and we will get there.

 

I see a lot of topics in the OP focus on the much needed Pirate option and not the refugee camp we have to day and I must applaud that.

 

I also want to see Nations to be equally changed especially in regards of Navy Captain and Merchant Captain. The Officer slot can be used for that.

[Pagan Pete]

Good healthy feed discussion were having here. And even some funny quips that almost made me laugh food all over me keyboard!