PvP Rewards - feedback needed

[Wesreidau]

A good reward for PvP is the token required for an exceptional ship, as outlined in this post.

 

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/17163-the-fix-for-exceptional-ship-spam-and-worthless-quality-2-4-ships/

[DrZoidberg]

Dear Naval Action Developers!

I play Naval Action from the start, i think im one of the most busy tester of the game. I stopped playing for a while. ur game is the best(!), but u make time after time fatal mistakes, what force players to leave.
Tester usually write about that mistakes, but usually noone cares about it. I play from the wipe again.

Congratulation. Ur new economy model is good, the trade became much enjoyable as the fleet system and the PVP, PVE content too. U made a really slow, but usefull work. The problem is that u made some (one) fatal mistake again, so ur "new game" wont be viable.

What is this problem? U let "basic cutter system" as it was before wipe.  New players, "low budget players" go out to farm, pro-s go out for conquest point with thier expensive ships, and they always have to fight with basic cutter swarm.

This type of fight is not enjoyable, not worth for the "normal" side, and not fair that one side riska a lot for nothing, and the other side risk nothing.

I have 2 player in my guild left the game because they lost thier expensive farm ships in that way. If u let people swarm the normal players without any risk, it will kill the game, u will loose ur player base again. I think u can solve  the problem easily.

With basic cutters or with basic cannons on board players shouldnt attack or join to attacker fights. Another solution if u give 1 PVP mark to players sinking basic cutters or ships with basic cannons while u get one mark form the cutter captain  if he sunk (and if he has; if not no penalty).

If he hasent got PVP mark there shouldnt be penalty, but if he has 1 still, u should get 1 from basic cutter players. I have some other suggestion, what are not that important, but shouild be very usefull aswell. U should help the new players and PVP, PVE players with low cost basic ships.

Like navy brig for 30 PVE marks, cerberus for 60 PVE mark, Indef. frigate for 150 PVE mark. This can help a lot, and make game much enjoyable.

U should make rate ship mark and craft cost more exponential. Soon u will see, that La Oceans will be the only ship in PB-s. Everybody will rush for that, because no meaning to make lower rates. 1st rates should have much higher prices in conquest mark and in craft price aswell. Like if Bellona 5-10 mark, La Ocean should 30-50.

i have 1 more suggestion. u shouldnt let enemy to attack players in fleet or combat missions. Its really joke that somebody start to farm with his brand new expensive ship and 5 basic cutter just appear in his mission. The solution is really easy. dont let attack players in combat misson, but to avoid unfair disappears in OS chases if a player under attack on OS he shouldnt join for a mission. I like ur game and now u have the last chance to make it a good, maybe profitable game, but if u let basic cutter swarm u wont be succesfull.

 

~ edit for legibility/paragraphs ~ the moderation team 

[Hullabaloo]

No PVP marks if you don't PVP will solve it

At the moment:

1. You cannot exchange PVE and PVP Marks on the pvp servers

2. But you CAN buy and sell PVP marks (50K) and PVE marks (1K) on the pvp servers,on the market

Therefore: 

You CAN in fact swap pvp marks for pve marks, so whats the point in that?

Therefore:

I spent about 6 hours sailing around yesterday sinking enemy players ships, I was in an expensive ship and
I was chased and nearly caught multiple times by revenge fleets and some of the battles were close.

It was fun for me (in this case, but would have been a bit crap if i'd lost my ship) and I provided some content 
(be it fun or misery) for a lot of other players. It was a bit quiet so:

My reward: Only a little gold and XP and 8 pvp marks.

My clan mate spent roughly the same ammount of time grinding Raider Missions in the Indefatigable with virtually no risk:

Provided no content for anyone

His reward: 

About 500K in Gold, around 5K xp, over 100 PVE Marks, tons of rig and hull repairs, 
2 sets of copper plating and some skill books.
(He can convert the gold into 10 pvp marks?!!!)

That can't be right can it?

PVP marks should be for pvp only? 
That is: You can't buy them or sell them or give them away.
The only way you get them is by pvping.

People would be out on the oceans fighting, isn't that what we want?

If you want to care bear that's fine, but you won't have access to certain things that only pvp marks can buy and
there will be danger because players will be out hunting.

That's more fun for everyone surely?

Because atm, grinding missions = win
Being in a big clan with alts in other nations trading goods around and fixing port battles = win
Playing the game how it supposed to be played and providing content for everyone = mug

Edited June 11, 2017 by Hullabaloo

[Enemy]

i came back after the wipe and i dont like this system. actually it results in gank squads with fully upgraded and crafted ships killing the new players on thier first npc-bought class 6-5 ships. especially the pirates can abuse their game mechanic and are able to gank all nations. i dont know whats the point with this grind you placed into this game. for me it just looks like the game will be one sided again and only the hardcore players will go on. think we had that already in the old system. at leadt there you were able to compensate the advantage after some time. now those who startet wright after wipe have an advantage which  nearly cant be compensated if you are not in a 50+ active player clan. 

the gank keeps going on for pvp marks all day long. 

as an example. we try to get our former 120 member clan back to work. actually 6 players left and 2 new players recrutet. yesterday again our 4 men group got ganked by superior craftet and upgraded ships while we could do absolutely nothing against it. result - lost our stuff, lost 3 ships, lost one player, lost fun again. 

all for 3 pvp marks. think this system sooner or later kills it again

[Magnum]

The PvP mark system is completely and utterly broken. It is nothing but a reward system for sniveling forum warrior cowards. They run in packs and "Farm" any smaller weaker ship they find, but will run like the chicken-tard chicken poo they are if confronted by an even force.

And THESE are the "leet PvPers" you are rewarding?

If you can't figure out the BR discrepancy/ganking issue - this game will never be right.

(OK - begin chiding me that I should play PvE server - you chicken-tards who won't fight me mano a mano)

[Yngvarr]

i also dislike the part where whole portions of the game are closed to you if you chose not to go hunt for player in OW.

i'd at least include an exchange store, perhaps with an uneven exchange rate between PVE and PVP marks.

 

i would have thought that "sandbox" means that there are multiple ways to get to the same goal.

Instead we don't get Naval Action, but a railroad that needs to be followed and dev's that intend  "this is the way you MUST play"

 

I did PVP before the wipe, now since the patch, not so much anymore.

I''m not in the mood to lose a ship i've farmed resources for for multiple days, in 1 blow by a Pirate gank-squad that seem to have ships with jet engines, and only attack you when you are alone and helpless.

That being said, i get no PVP marks and am stuck at the light frigate level.

 

And for those doubting the definition of "Sandbox":

Open world, free roam, or (more loosely) sandbox are terms for video games where a player can move freely through a virtual world and is given considerable freedom in regard to how and when to approach particular objectives, as opposed to other video games that have a more linear structure to their gameplay

 

"An open world is a level or game designed as nonlinear, open areas with many ways to reach an objective."

Edited June 12, 2017 by Yngvarr

[Peer den Schuymer]

15 hours ago, Yngvarr said:

open world is a level or game designed as nonlinear, open areas with many ways to reach an objective."

Indeed, now you have to follow Devs way of playing this game and thus restricted in a lot of ways. The gap between a select group of players and the rest widens by the day. You'll find guys in L Oceans where the rest still has to do with light ships. New players will get fed up with this game in acouple of days and a lot of old hands will start leaving if this is how the game remains.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

4 minutes ago, Peer den Schuymer said:

You'll find guys in L Oceans where the rest still has to do with light ships

You have a point. How does it look in other similar setup sandbox MMOs ? Elite D, Eve, etc ? Everyone in capital ships ? Titans ? Does anyone besides a clan even hope to control a system in ED ? Or sectors in EVE ?

No ill nature towards the comment, only tracing a comparison to the rest of the industry. And light ships can do what the big stuff can't. There's a place for all ships.

[Thonys]

Marcs did not exist ( * Note)in the age of sail....(it says it all   )

But, Silver, gold, jewels did.

i can live with a marcs conversion, but not the way it is now.

for the only trader captain, who's mostly also the builder, it is a just......a restricted game, what will end up in a quit, by the lack of growth.

(the most trader captains poses the Silver in huge quantity....at least in history that was the case,.now devs revamp your thoughts)

do some research to turn the  bloody marcs into silver and gold  to get to one currency as well...it will deal with a lot of issues

 

Note:(* also Dutch ships did not exist...they were a fantasy amongst sailers, like the" flying Dutchman " movie, its all just a fantasy, all the stories are true the Englisch and French fought ghost and told lies in your history books)

Edited June 13, 2017 by Thonys

[Temporal]

On 6/12/2017 at 8:23 PM, Yngvarr said:

i also dislike the part where whole portions of the game are closed to you if you chose not to go hunt for player in OW.

i'd at least include an exchange store, perhaps with an uneven exchange rate between PVE and PVP marks.

 

i would have thought that "sandbox" means that there are multiple ways to get to the same goal.

Instead we don't get Naval Action, but a railroad that needs to be followed and dev's that intend  "this is the way you MUST play"

 

I did PVP before the wipe, now since the patch, not so much anymore.

I''m not in the mood to lose a ship i've farmed resources for for multiple days, in 1 blow by a Pirate gank-squad that seem to have ships with jet engines, and only attack you when you are alone and helpless.

That being said, i get no PVP marks and am stuck at the light frigate level.

Agree completely with everything this person said.

Could not have worded it better myself.

Edited June 15, 2017 by Temporal
edit

[Lataffiole]

The main problemes with the surrender is not for the one who surrended: 

Because if you know from the begining that you will get caught dont put sail and surrend ( so this must be the condition). Otherwise you make other player who caught you waste time for at the end the same rewards.( SO WHAT IS THE POINT  except annoying player and running the fun to play).

On the point of view of the hunter The main suggestion should be in this case giving the pvp mark rewards + the ship. ( in compensation of the time and repairs wasted ) 

On the point of view of the cheep a new option should allow the player via offering a trade with ennemi or the leader of the ennemi group to propose a amount of money for the ship and what is inside. If both part agree the the one who get caught is teleport to the nearest friendly port and save is ship + what is inside with out the risk to being tag again.

This is for me the best way to fix the problems for both side. 

 

[Hagen v Martius]

Alright, the current way of rewarding only kills and assist makes PvP highly annoying. I mean I get not being able to sustain yourself on just fighting, sure, but this is not the way.

This is especially true as I am easily able to do this - sustain myself and grow my fortune - when grinding boring PvE missions over and over again. Even ignoring getting skill books from doing this.

Whereas in PvP the risk and damage outside of a straight up gank makes this highly unlikely. Even more so for the person that is being attacked.

 

 

Example.

Decided to have some fun, so we sailed into Swedish waters in our three Pickles. Found a guy in a Renomee, took him on, after a slog of 80 minutes (made some mistakes, could've been quicker about it but that's besides the point) we captured him.

With the repairs we all used and the crew losses, we either made a slight loss or a very slight profit of the fight. Roughly 7k to 9k each, while we also used 7k to 9k worth of repairs (calculated at base production cost,would be even worse if we had to buy them).

Oh and we got 2 Combat Marks each, lol. Mind that at the same time we could, all of us, have gotten multiple times that by boring PvE mission grinding. And a whooole lot of money to boot.

 

But the Swede? What did he get for not just surrendering and trying to make it a fight? What did he get for fighting and nearly sinking two of us?

Nothing. Nada. Null. Zilch.

 

 

Ridiculous. This just adds insult to injury and adds a completely unnecessary level of "sting" to getting killed.

Please rethink the kill/assist thing for PvP.

And if alt-farming is the issue... I don't know. But this shouldn't be it.

 

 

Thank you.

Edited June 27, 2017 by Hagen v Martius
clarified some parts

[C0deX]

Trinco sunk 3 CM! Oo

I think PvP should be rewarded higher.

Exchange of the old marks and new rewards must be raised to at least x 10

[Hagen v Martius]

1 hour ago, rediii said:

Don't forget that you got the ship. 

We didn't. No repairs inside and no repairs left for any of us and the revenge fleet outside.

Had to scuttle it.

[Rouleur]

The revenge fleet is clearly a problem for pirates or raiders, but so is the invisibility gank - a symmetrical solution would therefor be best.  I am tired of the number of traitors sailing in cutters spotting for invisible gank squads or undertaking other nefarious activity. Hang the traitors!

[Liq]

23 minutes ago, Rouleur said:

The revenge fleet is clearly a problem for pirates or raiders, but so is the invisibility gank - a symmetrical solution would therefor be best.  I am tired of the number of traitors sailing in cutters spotting for invisible gank squads or undertaking other nefarious activity. Hang the traitors!

We have a 'you cannot join PB for 30 min' timer after entering to OW. So why not have a logout feature after battle, but at the same time add a 'you can't attack anyone' for 10-15 minutes? Logging-in to insta gank someone being reported by one of your friends solved?
@admin

Edited June 27, 2017 by Liquicity

[Hullabaloo]

Option 3 for me. Please don't bring back ridiculous multiple durability...I found it nothing short of comical when you could lose a ship but then not actually lose it.

[mikawa]

Now what was historically the reason for surrender a battle?

To save lives if it is impossible to win. I think, surrender should always be possible and the "winner" either by boarding or by surrendering should have two options to choose:

1) spare the ship - the ship remains on inferior side (!), but the superior gets full prize money and full marks and can recruit some crew from inferior (but only so much so that he still can sail his ship)
2) take over the ship - the crew alive remains full on the inferior side (!), the superior gets less prize money and less marks (he has already the prize as benefit)