Can the Confederates take Little Round Top on day 1

[RichardMcCor]

I just finished an alternate history book "Bring the Jubilee - by Ward Moore - written some time ago" where the battle of Gettysburg was won by the Confederates mainly due to occupation of Little Round Top on Day 1.

 

Can this be simulated or accomplished or even attempted in UG:G. I could not see how? I don't think on day 1 we have a map   option south of Seminary Ridge (do we??)

 

Rich

 

P.S. a nice synopsis of the book is on amazon etc but spoiler alerts if you want to read it.

[Husserl]

The first Little Round Top map is available on the afternoon of the second day (historical). You'll meet this map after the Union has withdrawn on The Cemetery at the end of the first day. The CS will have an option to decide if they want to flank Union left and fight that battle. For the Union side the map appears randomly by selecting to defend their positions on the high ground of the Cemetery Ridge. In this case the AI (CS) will decide if it will attack the Union left (Little Round Top), the center or the right  at Culp's Hill.   

[RichardMcCor]

Got it.

 

Perhaps a future day 1 scenario tree can have the CS probing the little round top and then the battle can progress from that point. That would enable people to get their own UG:G view of that "what if" from a day 1 point vs of historical day 2 options.

[Don't Escrow Taxes]

This would be really cool Rich, and I can think of a bunch more.  Hopefully we're get a 'sandbox' mode starting day 1 with the whole map and it just runs.  but may be outside the scope of the game programmers' ability.  

 

edit:  assuming the game can be modded too i imagine this could get there.

[Husserl]

The CS attack at Little Round Top requires the Army of the Potomac already at Gettys and deployed on the Cemetery area on the first day (else there is no meaning to flank at LRT). The first day Union forces (I and XI Corps) would not be enough to fortify even Cemetery and Culp's hills so there is no meaning to found deployed so South on LRT.    

[RichardMcCor]

Husserl,

 

Understood, a boring day 1 scenario. No point to re-inact it as nothing takes place. Therefore as ...

 

The alternative history book has the CS unit taking LRT on day 1 and not doing much but as day 2 comes on they are already there causing the Union to deploy differently and in this book then lose due to fire from LRT. 

 

Therefore it would be a day 2 scenario where the alternative starting point is that the CS occupied LRT on day 1 and now as day 2 starts what will the union do as they face an already in place CS on LRT.

[David Fair]

It seems doubtful that the Union would have fought at Gettysburg if the CSA had occupied LRT on Day 1.  

 

Meade's Pipe Creek Circular was specifically intended to give the Union a topographical advantage.  The Union intelligence reports put the ANV at parity with the AoP at roughly 95,000.  

 

Part of why the Union fought at Gettysburg was the advantageous ground.  

Had the CSA occupied LRT, Culp's Hill, and / or Cemetery Hill it seems most likely that the map required would be Pipe Creek - not Gettysburg.

 

PS - Hazlett's battery on LRT was only able to bring 2 guns to bear where they could actually hit a target.  Had the CSA occupied LRT they would have had the same problem.  Additionally, while the west side of LRT was cleared the area to the east was forested - seriously obstructing the field of fire.  My hunch is that Lee would have much preferred cutting the Baltimore Pike behind Union I & XI Corps.  

 

The LRT battle would be contorting history, military logic, and geography - but other than that it sounds like a great fantasy scenario.

[MikeK]

The primary reason the Meade fought at Gettysburg was that his - let's call them "bold" - subordinates had determined to make a fight of it at Gettysburg, and with two corps hotly engaged he could not afford to withhold support. As it happened, the position offered good defensible terrain.  

 

Cemetery Hill was the dominating ground in the area and an nearly level artillery platform, as recounted by Union officers.  The topography of Little Round Top made it a very limited and awkward artillery position for the Union - is the topography much more favorable if facing toward the east?  Looking just at the topographical map and overlay afforded by the game, if Lee held Cemetery Hill and could lay out a defensive position to defend from attack from the south and east, what line would it take, and how would Little Round Top fit into it?  Benner's Hill and Culp's Hill along with Cemetery Hill and the broad ridge to the south provide a strong position with good lateral lines of reinforcement. Would Lee, or any of us, extend the line west across Seminary Ridge to the high ground farther west (thereby covering the line of retreat to the west and maintaing a coherent line, or swing it forward and down Cemetery Ridge to Little Round Top, which would also require that Round Top be strongly posted and, to avoid being turned, a strong force would be needed west of Round Top extending west. This ground is relatively open and level, inviting the main force of at Union attack if they were so inclined in order to turn Lee out of a position centered on the eastern hills.  

 

Round Top and Little Round Top, difficult terrain as they are, are observation posts of great value for either side, but is it worth it for the ANV to have an awkward line and salient at those places in order to have the advantage of observation?  

[Ray_p]

I fail on the day 1 arrival battle.    I seem unable to win the day so I don't play that battle at all anymore.  I would probably be relieved of my command.  lol