Patch 9.9 - Officers, Fishing, Provisions and other things

[Vernon Merrill]

Are you crazy with the price of medikit/crew and repairkit ? not everyone have the time for play 12 hours per days

 

and the big Missions for win golds is not a option annymor with the low playerbase

 

You do realize you dont have to take your largest ship out every time you sail, right?  This is designed to prevent "bigger is always better"...  Clearly its working.  Taking out a SOL SHOULD be expensive and dangerous.  

 

 

Just my $.02

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Pirates was supposed to be hard mode all along?

 

And now that it might be, pirates come out and complain.

 

*yawn*

 

Play privateer using a proper historical privateer ship and then come back and read again what you wrote.

 

*sips coffee*

[cpt Terenor]

You do realize you dont have to take your largest ship out every time you sail, right?  This is designed to prevent "bigger is always better"...  Clearly its working.  Taking out a SOL SHOULD be expensive and dangerous.  

 

 

Just my $.02

 

i play in consti. a missions reyard me for 25 k and with repair and crew i spend 30-40 k

 

 

but no problem with 500 player in a MMO its a fact the games run good =) Nooooo problem all is good.

Edited July 1, 2016 by cpt Terenor

[Enraged Ewok]

Your still missing the point.

 

I think you're missing mine, and attributing some sort of ill will on my part where there is none. I don't know how you come up with this otherwise: "Now, isn't server population, or it's lack a more major problem than your angst that people are not as bound to hours of sailing as you would like?"

I've been civil with you, and I'd appreciate it if you return the favor instead of littering your posts with snide remarks about me.

 

I am not talking about removing captain teleport from outpost to outpost. I am not advocating that, I never have advocated it, and I've never seen any of the Devs mention removing it. That is a gameplay concession that I feel does need to be in the game, else we would spend more long hours sailing than doing anything else as you say.

 

What I have been arguing for is the removal of Send to Outpost for captured ships after a battle, which admin mentioned earlier in this thread is planned to go (much to the chagrin of the powerplayers). With the new fleet mechanics, its only use is to redeploy ships instantly across the map. It kills anything resembling strategy for RvR gameplay and allows valuable ships to to travel from one end of the map to the other and anywhere in between, completely risk free and at no cost to the captain or clan. This is a gamebreaking "feature" that needs to go.

[Vernon Merrill]

i play in consti. a missions reyard me for 25 k and with repair and crew i spend 30-40k

but no problem with 500 player in a MMO its a fact the games run good =) Nooooo problem all is good.

What is your rank? If you can only fully crew a constitution, play in a trincomalee for a bit and you have plenty of replacement crew free of cost.

Or bitch. Your choice.

[cpt Terenor]

What is your rank? If you can only fully crew a constitution, play in a trincomalee for a bit and you have plenty of replacement crew free of cost.

Or bitch. Your choice.

 

or leave the games like everyone

Edited July 1, 2016 by cpt Terenor

[Vernon Merrill]

Or that too. If you don't enjoy the game, nobody is forcing you to stay.

Clearly things change week to week in this game. If you're too impatient to see how things shake out, that's not anybody else's fault.

[Pagan Pete]

Pirates was supposed to be hard mode all along?

 

And now that it might be, pirates come out and complain.

 

Wed been discussion how to make pyrates into real pyrates for many weeks now in the testers forum. NONE of that is here, only some number fudging BS.

 

There were some really good options that they could have gone with for ending the port dominace of pyrates and turing them into raiders and thieves, This patch does the OPPOSITE. There is no room now for the solo pyrate to nail traders… as was historically accurate. Gank-Fleets is now the ONLY option.

Is that what we want? 

[Cpt Blackthorne]

Fleets make true piracy impossible. Is that the goal?

I have absolutely no idea at all how it is now impossible....Please explain.

As I always saw it, 5 rats would gangbang 1 low rank newb. And when this did not happen, they would resort to a spy method of joining USA chat and cry wolf for help. This would drag one or maybe two bigger ships out only to see that spy leading them into a wolfpack of rats in larger ships.

At least now those gangbangs will slow down a bit. BTW, how many real rats sailed in fleets greater than about 2 ships?

[jw62]

Can we keep cool and save it for the virtual battlefield? I played a solid half day yesterday (injured list) and I agree that the cost of crew and medkits is astronomical. But, it's still a WIP, so we can comment, as we have been asked to by playing an early access game.

Crew is a bit expensive for capping, but I took my connie out with a friend and his trinc and in straight out battles the losses are not that bad. I had already begun the production of medkits, and once you have your production line set up it's not a game killer.

On the other hand boarding traders is a disaster at the moment. I suppose once I figure out a better capping set up, but it's going to require a dedicated ship. However, boarding traders needs to be fixed, its the livlihood of crafters and a good fun part of the game and how beginners learn to drive and start the game.

No marines on traders

Some sort of bonus for being real navy or pirate in boarding battles

Better cargos in holds and better sell pricing or parts . The boarding losses have thrown the capping of contraband  ships way out of balance.

LGV's, really, my indiaman, and essex and mercury  in consort, took 120 casualties taking an LGV, which had crappy gray stats and a cargo of 30 Fir. OK, it was a first for the patch and the consorting and even figuring out the minimap controls. the Essex just ended up wandering off, the merc stayed right in on the other side like I asked taking down sails, but boarding losses were nuts.

Really just should have had a pair of mercs.

For the moment I vote to keep being able to send ships on to any outpost; this is supposed to be a relaxing game. I wouldn't mind being able to drag a half dozen with me to sell in any port or take all the way home, but that can wait a long while for everything else to get done

Maybe some tweaks to the pricing of food, I'll see after I've caught and produced 200 fishmeal it that offsets enough. Maybe like some other games you can consume the raw product, food, fish, etc, for one crew? Just to ease  off a little around the edges.

 

Nice work with the missions and fixing the grouping, me and my bud went out on two missions, one which had us face off in the old style 6 ships a side scramble and the other at the same level was a three on three all big frigates. Totally thumbs up on the chart and gps. I still would not mind a course bug, I draw the whole plot as I go in real life, but this is a heck of a good start. I think I like all the new trading ops, even though you thrashed my established triangle, but it's a wip, and I managed a good trade run last night.

 

might think about adding a built in mp3 player with gui on the screen, although when i finish setting this machine up it shouldn't be a problem for me, but it is a nice finishing touch, and then I would not have to alt tab out to mute or change tracks

 

Thanks, Keep it up

[Kaos]

might think about adding a built in mp3 player with gui on the screen, although when i finish setting this machine up it shouldn't be a problem for me, but it is a nice finishing touch, and then I would not have to alt tab out to mute or change tracks

Might aswell add a built in youtube player or netflix while we're at it, let's not hold ourselves back

[Smithy]

steam has built in browser just use that to youtube

[KrakkenSmacken]

I think you're missing mine, and attributing some sort of ill will on my part where there is none. I don't know how you come up with this otherwise: "Now, isn't server population, or it's lack a more major problem than your angst that people are not as bound to hours of sailing as you would like?"

I've been civil with you, and I'd appreciate it if you return the favor instead of littering your posts with snide remarks about me.

 

I am not talking about removing captain teleport from outpost to outpost. I am not advocating that, I never have advocated it, and I've never seen any of the Devs mention removing it. That is a gameplay concession that I feel does need to be in the game, else we would spend more long hours sailing than doing anything else as you say.

 

What I have been arguing for is the removal of Send to Outpost for captured ships after a battle, which admin mentioned earlier in this thread is planned to go (much to the chagrin of the powerplayers). With the new fleet mechanics, its only use is to redeploy ships instantly across the map. It kills anything resembling strategy for RvR gameplay and allows valuable ships to to travel from one end of the map to the other and anywhere in between, completely risk free and at no cost to the captain or clan. This is a gamebreaking "feature" that needs to go.

Sorry about the tone, i'll tone it down.

 

I would not mind Send to Outpost being changed, so that it actually sets a ship on the OW to go to the outpost.  Really all I want is the ability to order my ships to make the trip while "I" do not, and while on the trip to be eating into my crew limits.  It's no real difference game wise that me logging on and doing some AFK sailing, other than I won't be running into coast line and the inactive timing out.  It also would mean that to get to a battle on the other side of the world, you would have had the foresight to outpost and send appropriate ships in the area long before the fighting started.

 

It originally sounded from your comments,that you were against any and all TP types of things, which is what I oppose.  I suppose I reacted to the impression that you were making generalist statements about AI and TP use.

[la Touche-Treville]

Want to attack a trader that is secured by his AI fleet of say 1 Surprise and 1 Reno?

Well you better be prepared to sail with your own AI fleet to match.

Nothing wrong here.

 

However the cost of capturing the trader might turn up really expensive for both the boarder and the trader as the crew will greatly suffer.

 

Not quite sure about the economics of this patch 9.9 yet but my income has greatly shrunk, that's for sure with all these new ressources you have to buy/create for medkits but too early to draw up any conclusions.

 

I do like the fishing that gives the long OW travel some reward and is great with getting new players onboard!

[Obi-Heed Kenobi]

A few thoughts.

First, I agree with everyone saying that the cost of crew will need to be adjusted. With that being said, I think that crew should be expensive, because: 1) Pyhrric victories aren't the norm and need an associated cost; and 2) large sailing ships, especially ships of the line, represented a massive national undertaking and *should* be expensive to outfit, crew, and operate.

But, "expensive" and "prohibitively expensive" are two different things. I don't think we want to discourage either battles or the use of large ships. I just think we ought to discourage the senseless waste of crew - just like in real life. So, make crew costs a factor to consider, but don't make them so expensive as to avoid battles in large ships. In other words, if I do a 169 or above fleet mission, come up with a system where I'm not discouraged from doing them. How about adding a "hospital building" in outposts that we can purchase, and it gradually restores a percentage of your lost crew? Or maybe a "recruitment center" that you can purchase, that gives a discount on new crew? Or maybe a "charismatic leader" officer trait that reduces costs? There are a lot of options that can accomplish everyone's goals and still keep a high degree of realism.

Second, there's a lot of talk about pirates. I personally think that one area where pirates should have a special ability is in crew recruitment. Think about it - pirates are the nautical equivalent of guerillas. How do guerilla leaders recruit their followers? They don't usually have massive financial resources - so they're stuck with recruiting through less-traditional means. For pirates, I think the game could reflect that by giving pirates reduced crew costs. Or maybe allow pirates to keep the crews of captures ships. Again, there are a lot of options here that are both realistic and appropriate.

FWIW, I don't play as a pirate. This is just one thing that I feel could add to the game and to pirate players' enjoyment.

Third, from what I've seen so far, there aren't many ports on the American coast that produce tobacco. In the southeast United States tobacco was, along with cotton, THE crop. This remains true even today. The cultivation of tobacco - particularly in Virginia and the Carolinas - goes back in the colonies to Jamestown in 1609. So, I'd strongly urge adding tobacco to the American ports at least in those regions.

Anyway, these are meant to be constructive suggestions. Overall, I think this patch is a big step in the right direction. With some tweaks, it's going to be awesome.

Edited July 1, 2016 by Obi-Heed Kenobi

[Lannes]

Here is the tally and why CREW are far too EXPENSIVE. I've just completed two missions. I earned just over 27,000 gold. I repaired my Constitution for 3,500 gold. I repaired my fleet Lynx for 270 gold. I was short 60 sailors. 60 sailors cost 30,0000 gold! Result, I LOST more than 6,000 gold in the exchange. I could have switched to another game and saved myself the frustration! DEVS, this is your call! Hotfix, please.

[admin]

Here is the tally and why CREW are far too EXPENSIVE. I've just completed two missions. I earned just over 27,000 gold. I repaired my Constitution for 3,500 gold. I repaired my fleet Lynx for 270 gold. I was short 60 sailors. 60 sailors cost 30,0000 gold! Result, I LOST more than 6,000 gold in the exchange. I could have switched to another game and saved myself the frustration! DEVS, this is your call! Hotfix, please.

 

 

To recover crew use medkits, crafted medkits for 60 sailors would cost you 3-4x cheaper than hiring from port.  Be careful with what you take to missions

Taking a Lynx to a Consti mission is a guaranteed way to lose 40 men. 

Sailing lower level ships is still free due to free crew limit

 

Losing Santisima in battle will cost 500k

Crew costs were the main cost of all navies in the age of sail. Its finally historical (and even cheaper than RL)

 

 

ps. we were also considering making crew a limited resource as it was in RL, which would give an awesome incentive to capture and own ports - but we are not sure - as it might be too harsh

[Demerzel]

What is the reasoning behind removing Tobacco production from the eastern US? I have been told it was a notable trade good during this time period, especially in Virginia, the Carolinas, and Georgia. Shouldn't at least some of those ports allow player production?

[Bach]

Here is the tally and why CREW are far too EXPENSIVE. I've just completed two missions. I earned just over 27,000 gold. I repaired my Constitution for 3,500 gold. I repaired my fleet Lynx for 270 gold. I was short 60 sailors. 60 sailors cost 30,0000 gold! Result, I LOST more than 6,000 gold in the exchange. I could have switched to another game and saved myself the frustration! DEVS, this is your call! Hotfix, please.

If you build med kits from tobacco, rum and food supplies the price drops considerably.

A small med kit is, going from memory, 8 food sup, 4 tobacco, 4 rum. Replaces 10 crew and costs 5k if you buy from NPCs.

The tobacco is 2000g, rum is free is you raid traders, food supplies about 100g if you fish the meat and buy the salt. So the player made kit can go for about 2100g making the crew replace cost 210g each. In the same scenario above 60 crew runs you only 12,600g. So 27000-12,600-3500-270 = about 10,500 profit.

I do think tobacco plantation harvest is a bit expensive and the ports that have it too rare. But if it starts showing up in trader cargos that might be different.

Now let's go evolve the old PVE mission practice a bit. If you went into the constitution mission with a Belona and too along x2 Cerbs. Now you can out armor the mission reducing casualties for the same profit. Start by telling the Cerbs to sail away as you close on the targets. Before they exit switch to follow you. This gets you to the mission ships first. Now they are locked on your tanked out Bella. Now tell them to destroy you target. This should reduce you casualties and help per mission profits. If you can't sail a ranked out Bella use the Connie and just lower the mission a notch.

Edited July 1, 2016 by Bach

[Obi-Heed Kenobi]

...

Crew costs were the main cost of all navies in the age of sail. Its finally historical (and even cheaper than RL)

....

This is still true today. The primary costs in any organization are related to personnel - pay, training, equipment, etc. It's a good thing for the game to reflect that.

As a follow-up, would it be possible to look at your casualty model and rework it?

What I mean is that, in any battle, there is a fairly predictable ratio between wounded and killed. It changes somewhat in naval battles because the possibility of sinking with all hands a real one (kind of like how if an airplane does anything other than run off a runway, you're probably going to die).

Regardless, there is still a ratio even in naval warfare, especially when a ship is not sunk. Frequently, there are many more wounded - who may recover - than killed.

Rather than simply measuring casualties as "KIA," would it be possible for you to have a percentage of casualties as "WIA," and then set up a mechanism for their recovery?

Edited July 1, 2016 by Obi-Heed Kenobi

[Lannes]

To recover crew use medkits, crafted medkits for 60 sailors would cost you 3-4x cheaper than hiring from port.  Be careful with what you take to missions

Taking a Lynx to a Consti mission is a guaranteed way to lose 40 men. 

Sailing lower level ships is still free due to free crew limit

 

Losing Santisima in battle will cost 500k

Crew costs were the main cost of all navies in the age of sail. Its finally historical (and even cheaper than RL)

 

 

ps. we were also considering making crew a limited resource as it was in RL, which would give an awesome incentive to capture and own ports - but we are not sure - as it might be too harsh

 

I thank-you for replying so promptly. I see your reply, however, as only a defence of your position. I and other people are saying that crew is too expensive. Medkits, too, a hellishly expensive. So, using medikits, I would have probably only just broken even. That's not a good outcome. There has to be a balance between real history and a game. Otherwise, every battle would have a predictable outcome. That is, the historical one. Brittania will rule the waves. End of story.

(Because of history, I don't want to swab the decks, climb up the mainmast, drown at sea, get blown up in a battle as cannon-fodder, etc.) I want to see a balanced game, tempered by historical data, but a game nevertheless.

You guys are doing an excellent job, but I think you are trying too many things at once and not trying a couple of things in a moderated way to see if they work. Then, it's easy to adjust the game up or down, as it were.

My congratulations for the game, so far.

Edited July 1, 2016 by Lannes

[Obi-Heed Kenobi]

One last suggestion, and then I'll stop.

Historically, after a crew surrendered, they would be taken prisoner and sent back to the capturing country. They would then be paroled, frequently through prisoner exchanges.

Is this presently modelled? If not, how about adding $$$ for captured crewmembers of your opponent? This would represent the value of capture, prisoner exchanges, and the like for crewmembers captured by surrender.

If you wanted to take it to an extreme, you could have captains pay a ransom to pirate players, which could be another unique factor for the pirates.

Edited July 1, 2016 by Obi-Heed Kenobi

[admin]

I thank-you for replying so promptly. I see your reply, however, as only a defence of your position. I and other people are saying that crew is too expensive. Medkits, too, a hellishly expensive. So, using medikits, I would have probably only just broken even. That's not a good outcome. There has to be a balance between real history and a game. Otherwise, every battle would have a predictable outcome. That is, the historical one. Brittania will rule the waves. End of story.

(Because of history, I don't want to swab the decks, climb up the mainmast, drown at sea, get blown up in a battle as cannon-fodder, etc.) I want to see a balanced game, tempered by historical data, but a game nevertheless.

You guys are doing an excellent job, but I think you are trying too many things at once and not trying a couple of things in a moderated way to see if they work. Then, it's easy to adjust the game up or down, as it were.

My congratulations for the game, so far.

 

thank you for the kind words Captain

 

we started with high prices because we wanted high level ships to be very expensive to maintain and lose

we don't know if this stays in game or not as many other things could be fixed in no time

What is the reasoning behind removing Tobacco production from the eastern US? I have been told it was a notable trade good during this time period, especially in Virginia, the Carolinas, and Georgia. Shouldn't at least some of those ports allow player production?

could be

please create a post in economy section something like

feedback on new resources - tobacco,sugar and food supplies suggestions

 

so everyone can post about it too

[TommyShelby]

Crew being expensive gives incentive to Surrender your ship instead of letting it sink. 

I think this is great! 
 

Crew being expensive also means that the game is less boarding focused. (Boarding is risky now as you might end up loosing alot of crew doing so.)

 

 

 

But alas, you should NOT be able to surrender when your ship is sinking/taking on water. 

 

And, if you are allowed to surrender while sinking then the surrendered ship should stop taking on water. 

 

The reason why it should be like this is that people, atm, surrender while taking on water. Thereby denying the enemy the "kill" and reward for sinking you! (I've done it myself, guilty as charged! ) 

[DeRuyter]

I thank-you for replying so promptly. I see your reply, however, as only a defence of your position. I and other people are saying that crew is too expensive. Medkits, too, a hellishly expensive. So, using medikits, I would have probably only just broken even. That's not a good outcome. There has to be a balance between real history and a game. Otherwise, every battle would have a predictable outcome. That is, the historical one. Brittania will rule the waves. End of story.

(Because of history, I don't want to swab the decks, climb up the mainmast, drown at sea, get blown up in a battle as cannon-fodder, etc.) I want to see a balanced game, tempered by historical data, but a game nevertheless.

You guys are doing an excellent job, but I think you are trying too many things at once and not trying a couple of things in a moderated way to see if they work. Then, it's easy to adjust the game up or down, as it were.

My congratulations for the game, so far.

 

Maybe it is just the way I am playing but I have not spent any gold on crew yet. For example, I fought a solo mission with a BP vs. a Surprise and lost 120 men in the boarding action and battle, but didn't have to buy any crew. You do realize that crew regenerates over time once you go back to port right? In the post battle screen you can add crew from your available amount onto your ship to exit with a full crew - or use a medikit. I returned to port to repair and do some crafting and the next time I sailed out my crew was back to the max.

 

Of course sailing out with an AI fleet maxing out your crew all the time could be costly. It is called crew management after all, manage wisely and you won't lose money.