Patch 9.9 - Officers, Fishing, Provisions and other things

[Bramborough]

If your willing to spend all your officer points to get two major perks that only really have value fighting pirates I think that is fairly balanced. You will be at a disadvantage vs the 6 other teams. Sucks for pirates but not so bad if your French.

 

Up front: I agree with what you say, from the perspective of PvP combat.  Merely a couple of additional observations:

 

1.  We all (even the Pirates) fight AI pirates in missions.  We didn't really have much of a problem beating them anyway, but now it'll be even more of a cakewalk.  I don't play on the PvP server(s), but I suspect that a greater percentage of PvP-server combat is actually mission-order PvE fighting than folks' discussions in these fora might lead one to think.

 

2.  Because of point #1, Pirate Hunter is now the obvious no-brainer perk to take on the PvE server, where the vast majority of all warship-vs-warship combat occurs in such missions.  In my view, it's not really a "balanced" decision at all; even at 6 points, this is by far the most useful perk to choose on that server, better than a combination of 2 or 3 of the low-cost ones.

 

That said, I recognize that on the PvP servers, Pirate Hunter is probably not worth the 6 points, or at very least it's a balanced trade-off against other cheaper perks.  We don't really need buffs to beat the AI, and it would make sense to optimize one's performance for PvP combat.  Since this perk is only effective against opponents of 1 out of 8 factions, maybe indeed there's better or at least equally viable ways to spend those 6 points.

 

Just wanted to point out that on at least one of the three servers, Pirate Hunter really is the clearly superior choice...which makes it not really a true "choice" at all.

[Loco Bandito]

If I spend 45 min to complete a fleet mission and I get as reward very little gold or even I loose money then something is wrong.

If Loco bandito crafted its own medskits he would only get as profit about 20k. With 20k you do literally nothing in the game.

Exactly I feel its going backwards, and now the materials are double everything is full, also need to up the port usage.

[Bramborough]

Done a Demon mission made about 70000 gold, crew cost 150000 profit - 80000.

 

How is that feasible. 

 

Well, what I'm reading here is that you did 70,000 gold's worth of damage/kills/assists/etc...while losing 300 men.   To be honest, that strikes me as a well-below-average outcome in a Rank 8 order.

 

I am in no way, explicitly or implicitly, disparaging you as a player.  I've had battles like that, I'm sure we all have.  I'm simply saying that this particular example might be an outlier toward the low end.  Most of your battles probably will still show a profit, both through higher gross earnings from damage/etc, and also not-quite-so-high crew losses.

 

One tip to help mitigate cost of crew losses: use Extra Hammocks.  The battle casualties are first taken from among the additional crew provided by that upgrade.  So, for example, if you have MC Hammocks (10% crew bonus) in a 3rd/Bellona (650 crew), then you have 65 extra sailors.  Your first 65 battle casualties are essentially "free".   There may (or may not) be similar benefit from Crew Space trim (haven't experimented with that yet).

[Loco Bandito]

Well, what I'm reading here is that you did 70,000 gold's worth of damage/kills/assists/etc...while losing 300 men.   To be honest, that strikes me as a well-below-average outcome in a Rank 8 order.

 

I am in no way, explicitly or implicitly, disparaging you as a player.  I've had battles like that, I'm sure we all have.  I'm simply saying that this particular example might be an outlier toward the low end.  Most of your battles probably will still show a profit, both through higher gross earnings from damage/etc, and also not-quite-so-high crew losses.

 

One tip to help mitigate cost of crew losses: use Extra Hammocks.  The battle casualties are first taken from among the additional crew provided by that upgrade.  So, for example, if you have MC Hammocks (10% crew bonus) in a 3rd/Bellona (650 crew), then you have 65 extra sailors.  Your first 65 battle casualties are essentially "free".   There may (or may not) be similar benefit from Crew Space trim (haven't experimented with that yet).

I understand, maybe the battle didnt go my way it was me (Bellona) npc (3rd Rate) vs Bellona, 3rd Rate 2x Ingmerland. 

 

Also when you do a boarding and loose your crew replacement costs are up there too. Crew should be 50gold pieces a person, back in that era 500 gold for a crew member was alot of money. 

[CaptVonGunn]

Cost of Crew replacement.

 

Captains mission (152) I am sailing a third rate vs a Trinco. Financial reward from mission $23,419 including the $5000 mission reward.

Ship repair is modest at $3091. To replace the mere 25 or so crew lost (from 712) was $13,500 leaving $9919 for the mission. A few more crew losses and I would have been going backwards.

In a major battle at this rate you would be bankrupted even if the ship came out ok. 

 

I don't believe this is sustainable.

Get Medkits they are MUCH cheaper if you are in a clan get the crafters making them. a single Large replaces 150 crew

[tipsypo]

Question, I managed to try out the capturing and assigning an enemy ship to my group. On assigning some crew to the defeated ship in the battle instance they were named "Mark Oliver's bot 0" rather than the regular names you see on the AI, I then went into the battle map to give the captured ship some orders, but they then disappeared as though escaped (forgot to check what the battle stats showed as their status though). Is that the intended working? Or should that captured ship remain in battle instance with me, say to attack other enemies (though have not tried this when enemies remain maybe that's the reason), and maybe take the name of my officers.

 

You can see the same thing occurring in OlavDeng's video around 6:56 here https://youtu.be/SqedN7jkLZ4?t=416.

Edited June 30, 2016 by tipsypo

[Enraged Ewok]

I concluded that you think that only players should be shipping their own goods, and should not be able to hire AI to do it for them, even in the AI do traverse the OW.

If that conclusion is wrong, then please describe how AI should be changed so that players can positively interact with them.

 

IMO, AI should be there as protectors in the form of capital fleets, and the training wheels for newer players. Right now they perform those two functions, and give a artificial flesh to the game world when server population is low. They are not and should not be a replacement for the player.

 

 

There won't be any more targets on the OW, the OW will be just as empty without those features, because people are using those features because they don't find the activity fun.  If it was fun, they would do it, but it's not, it's a grind, and when you try to FORCE a specific grindy game style with low appeal, and hinge other mechanics on players playing the way you want them to, all you end up with is an empty server.

 

I disagree. The teleports are used because people will usually follow the path of least resistance. Why bother spending time sailing, even with the fishing and bottle possibilities now, when you could just teleport your ship instead? It's so much more time efficient, so why bother even if there are potentially amazing rewards for the hour you spend? We sail for hours to set up new outposts simply because we can't teleport there, and we used to do even more OW sailing when all teleports were tied to the same 4 hour cooldown. But with the unlimited teleports, and no limit on moving ships, OW traffic dropped like a rock because people simply didn't have to sail more than once on a basic cutter. Then teleports with cargo were prohibited, forcing traders and crafters onto the OW for at least part of their trip. At this point, PVP/RVR players are the only ones that can move things from A to B with 0 risk until they commit to a fight, and that needs to be changed.

[Bramborough]

The other option is to use med kits at sea to replenish crew.  I haven't actually used them, but I did look at what's required to craft/buy med kits.  It's not at all clear to me that med kits are a cheaper alternative to simply hiring crew inport.  A small medkit restores 10 men and costs 5000 inport...exactly the same 500-per-man ratio of inport hire.  OR, you could craft the small medkit...and the LH and component mats are even more expensive.  Which is why I haven't used them; I don't see the incentive to do so.  Despite how expensive it is, hiring crew seems still cheaper and simpler than going the crafted-medkit route.

 

I retract this particular portion of my comments in this thread.  I gooned up my math (clicked Lg Medkits and thought I was looking at mats for Sm Medkits).  A clanmate helped me pull my head out of my a**.  Apologies.

 

Medkits do indeed seem a far superior method of replacing crew losses, compared to crew hire.

[Fastidius]

I retract this particular portion of my comments in this thread.  I gooned up my math (clicked Lg Medkits and thought I was looking at mats for Sm Medkits).  A clanmate helped me pull my head out of my a**.  Apologies.

 

Medkits do indeed seem a far superior method of replacing crew losses, compared to crew hire.

yep, just another stupid hurdle before you actually get to fight

[KrakkenSmacken]

IMO, AI should be there as protectors in the form of capital fleets, and the training wheels for newer players. Right now they perform those two functions, and give a artificial flesh to the game world when server population is low. They are not and should not be a replacement for the player.

 

 

 

I disagree. The teleports are used because people will usually follow the path of least resistance. Why bother spending time sailing, even with the fishing and bottle possibilities now, when you could just teleport your ship instead? It's so much more time efficient, so why bother even if there are potentially amazing rewards for the hour you spend? We sail for hours to set up new outposts simply because we can't teleport there, and we used to do even more OW sailing when all teleports were tied to the same 4 hour cooldown. But with the unlimited teleports, and no limit on moving ships, OW traffic dropped like a rock because people simply didn't have to sail more than once on a basic cutter. Then teleports with cargo were prohibited, forcing traders and crafters onto the OW for at least part of their trip. At this point, PVP/RVR players are the only ones that can move things from A to B with 0 risk until they commit to a fight, and that needs to be changed.

Your still missing the point.

 

Before the TP, I  left the game entirely. Many others who have not bothered to check back since the change made the exact same choice. I know, I was in two very active clans, that all decided to move on at about the same time, simply because it was too much to try to keep people together, given that even logging in 10 minutes after action started in one end of the world, if you were on timer meant that you either waited for 4 hours to play with your friends, try to find something solo to do while you listened to them having a blast, or log off.

 

That frustration is what led me to leave the first time, and if there was no more TP, I would be gone again.

 

Now, isn't server population, or it's lack a more major problem than your angst that people are not as bound to hours of sailing as you would like?  

Which would you rather have, an empty server because many simply can't/won't tolerate a game where they feel like their time is being wasted, or a game where you can find people to play with for the things they do enjoy, while you CAN choose to do the things you enjoy that they don't.

 

I challenge you, play as if your rules were in play now for at least 7 active game days.  When you capture, make the ship part of the fleet. When you ship, don't drive it there yourself EVERY TIME.  Don't purchase anything that your home port does not produce, to simulate scarcity. Try to build all your own ships with resources you have not stockpiled up on. Manage your TP's like your on the old 4 hour timer.

 

In a week, I seriously doubt you would feel the same way about this issue as you do now.  I suspect you don't even realize how much you personally rely on the current mechanics to function.

 

I don't think this game simply can't afford to think in terms of black and white, or how it could be if there was an ideal population, because without TP mechanics to grease the wheels, there NEVER will be that ideal population so desperately dreamed about.

 

Bottom line for me at least is, if captain TP was gone and I was forced to personally sail every single product to the capital for construction, I would be too.  

Edited July 1, 2016 by KrakkenSmacken

[NewClearPower]

What you are saying is not penatly. It`s still risk free option to move ships arround without any danger. Just take few hours more.

It is a penalty. A penalty must not be the risk of losing your ship. In many games a penalty is just time. In my example you have to choose if you want to sail your ship to a port for a small portion of time or if you want to send it there for a big portion of time.

Of course you can't send a ship with goods in it, like it was before this patch.

If you want to trade, you have to sail on your own like if you want to go hunting.

Imo totaly shitty solution. Atm population is low, but if game hits more (10k for example ) it`ll be so hard for defenders and so easy for attackers.

Without automatic sending people actually need to put some EFFORT, if they want to do port battles far away from home. Effort usually cost you some time and organization.

First, you need time, in any of the discussed ways of fixing the teleport.

Second, you also need to go there manually at least once. You need an outpost there!

Create fleets to move ships towards your destination. Get escort. Move resources to build stuff @ place. Create opportunity for defenders to scout your movements and prepare defence, and possibility to gather some intel about your motives etc.

I would love to see population more spread out at national waters. Too many people are sitting @ capitals only and rarely move between ports arround national waters. That creates space for more shipyard/trade hubs, more exploring/scouting stuff, more hunting places for pierats etc.

People are so damn lazy these days. They simply want to get everything on silver plater and ruin game genres with their demands and make it dull.

Want instant action? Go play WoW or similar games that are aimed exactly at people like you and will easly meet your expectations about INSTANT action.

Please correct me, but in the quote I didn't say I want instant action at the other side of the sea.

When you need to wait some hours to get your ship to another outpost, than you can't call that instant action.

Also you can't instant gank other players because it is much likely that they are not there anymore when your ship arrives.

All this comes from casual gamer that play 1-2h ( sometimes more ), 3-4 days per week. And i dont see a problem with moving stuff arround world. If i want to hunt arround pirate capitol i should sail my ships there, bring scouts for me, or simply buy them arround destination ( propably overpriced but hey! that`s what game is all about! ).

Get out and start thinking outside the box!

And still there is instant small/large battle option for people that want instant action ...

Also, no offence. Really its just sick how many good games got dumbed down and became dull because of people so narrow visioned ...

I`m saying my opinion and i`ll defend it.

Cheers

If I have time to play during the week (bad weather outside) then I like to play 2-4 hours and on the weekend a bit longer (with good weather I have better things to do). So I am between casual and hardcore.

When I was trading some stuff from a distant outpost to the capital I was just playing something else while my LGV was just sailing straight to the capital. NA was running on the second screen so I could monitor it but I played a different game.

So much fun in NA to watch the ship sail in one direction for 1.5 hours.

The instant battle option is a joke, really, try it.

I used a Frigate and joined small battle. We had to fight 2 Pavels and 3 3rd rates with a few Frigates and Constis. So much fun because of this brilliant matchmaker.

Without the teleport I will just do missions and have some fun around the port I do my missions (not the capital). I won't participate in far away port battles anymore.

I also dislike the old free send to outpost function.

But in my opinion there needs to be some kind of teleport that actually needs to be significant longer than sailing on your own.

I also say my opinion and I also defend it.

PS: have fun with "Ship vs Tower" port battles.

[Mrdoomed]

Done a Demon mission made about 70000 gold, crew cost 150000 profit - 80000.

How is that feasible.

Dont do ai missions all day in a pvp server ? I pvped all night. Huge profit not including ships caped and loot.

Seems simple to me sir.

[Pagan Pete]

Fleets make true piracy impossible. Is that the goal?

 

 

Ill be takin a break till y'all get this sorted out. ta o/

 

 

 

PS. grape is broken, and thanks for the anti-pyrate bias. real nice job. 

[Mrdoomed]

Fleets make true piracy impossible. Is that the goal?

Ill be takin a break till y'all get this sorted out. ta o/

As a true piracy player i agree but we've found a great way to make profits and punish nats. Its sad to resort to it but what can ya do.

[Michael Frost]

seeing the level of discussion I say that this time the devs hit the patch.

 

If there is no heated discussions, so the update was not good   

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

 

seeing the level of discussion I say that this time the devs hit the patch.

 

If there is no heated discussions, so the update was not good   

 

 

This is correct in my POV. At the office we do the same thing to leave people uncomfortable and force them to discuss and come up with ideas

 

There are a lot of positives in the patch. One I like the most is the Captain responsability for the crew. You are a bloodthirsty maniac with no concern for the lives of your men ? You weigh earnings versus your valuable crew and know when to retreat or surrender ? We might be on the more credible path to age of sail historical outcomes.

 

First PvP battle after patch yesterday, 2 privateers versus a frigate, perfect wind onshore. Was a prolonged fight but in the end the enemy captain weighed his options and decided to strike the colours. It was the most smart move he could make. Saved his crew, saved his Officer. Lost one Dura.

 

Still think fleets are obnoxiously intrusive to the PvP multiplayer social environment. They add absolutely nothing we cannot do ourselves. A trader escorted by a friend. A corsair squadron of 3 buddies.

 

Best little gems of the patch, the sounds. I had noticed the seaguls and battle sounds. Yesterday in battle noticed friendly crews from other ships with now shouts when they were leaked. It sounded so great

 

My only request, review penetration/damage slightly once more. Make the choice between longs/mediums valid again.

[Leku]

1. It is a penalty. A penalty must not be the risk of losing your ship. In many games a penalty is just time. In my example you have to choose if you want to sail your ship to a port for a small portion of time or if you want to send it there for a big portion of time.

2. Of course you can't send a ship with goods in it, like it was before this patch.

If you want to trade, you have to sail on your own like if you want to go hunting.

3. First, you need time, in any of the discussed ways of fixing the teleport.

Second, you also need to go there manually at least once. You need an outpost there!

4. Please correct me, but in the quote I didn't say I want instant action at the other side of the sea.

When you need to wait some hours to get your ship to another outpost, than you can't call that instant action.

Also you can't instant gank other players because it is much likely that they are not there anymore when your ship arrives.

5. If I have time to play during the week (bad weather outside) then I like to play 2-4 hours and on the weekend a bit longer (with good weather I have better things to do). So I am between casual and hardcore.

When I was trading some stuff from a distant outpost to the capital I was just playing something else while my LGV was just sailing straight to the capital. NA was running on the second screen so I could monitor it but I played a different game.

So much fun in NA to watch the ship sail in one direction for 1.5 hours.

6. The instant battle option is a joke, really, try it.

I used a Frigate and joined small battle. We had to fight 2 Pavels and 3 3rd rates with a few Frigates and Constis. So much fun because of this brilliant matchmaker.

7. Without the teleport I will just do missions and have some fun around the port I do my missions (not the capital). I won't participate in far away port battles anymore.

8.I also dislike the old free send to outpost function.

But in my opinion there needs to be some kind of teleport that actually needs to be significant longer than sailing on your own.

9. I also say my opinion and I also defend it.

10. PS: have fun with "Ship vs Tower" port battles.

 

1. Of course its not. Do you know that portbattles mechanic will change soon? And flag mechanic? And that there will be annoucment earlier that port x is going to be attacked tommorow? Then I as attacked can easly move ships towards front tottaly risk free few hours before. So? Where is penatly? That it takes 10h? Ok we`ll move ships 1 day earlier and then attack port. I repeat. Where is penatly in this? Where is EFFORT in this? Where is strategy in this?

Port battles and wars should be planned strategicaly. Moving resources, ships, crafters. Everything should matter. You still just want dull it down to risk free moving ships. Just a little longer.

 

2. There should be no option to move ships arround. Even to capital. Be it trader/war ship, empty or not. EOS. Teleporting yourself arround world is already big adventage. If you cant organize yourself as person/clan/nation then pay for it. And keep whining when people will beat you.

 

3. I dont mind discusion. But like in 1. and 2. + earlier posts. I hate any teleport abilities. I dont mind keeping teleporting yourself arround but tbh it should have some kind of cd. Yup. Maybe not now with low population, but definatly later when there will be more. And there will be more.

You need to go there manually once. Ohnoes. So much effort. I must buy basic cutter and afk sail once. Sorry.

 

4. See point 1.

If you have only one or two ships arround ... well. Then get more money. Im damn lazy and have arround 15 pvp ships arround 7 outposts and can get action pretty fast.

 

5. Yeah because everything is a) instanced ( pvp/pve ), and everyone is teleporting arround world. Thats why you have boring time and posibility to meet anyone @ OW is so low. You dont see it?

- low server pop

- producing and sitting besides capital is mostly pointless and useless. No reason to move arround nation waters 95% of the time.

- teleports

- everything is ez pz. Almost nothing needs effort. You dont need to sail and move ships. Only some goods. No opportunities to meet friendly or foe.

You see where you are going wrong with your thinking?

 

6. Dunno. I didnt test it as im not interested. It can be fixed tho.

 

7. Well. Your choice. If you dont know how to organize yourself and dont want to put some effort ... I dont mind.

 

8. See above.

 

9. Keep doing that!

 

10. Sorry but im not interested in actual pb. Boringfests. Im looking forward to pb changes and additional possibilites to win them. More room for tactics and diff ships. I hope so

 

Cheers

[Quineloe]

Pirates was supposed to be hard mode all along?

 

And now that it might be, pirates come out and complain.

[Sharden]

Pirates was supposed to be hard mode all along?

 

And now that it might be, pirates come out and complain.

 

so you are complaining for ages about pirates being easy mode, but as soon as they are clearly at a disadvantage, it is all fine. pathetic.

 

Pirates being supposed to be harder is not about some game mechanic making them considerable weaker than every other player but should be about the game mechanics playing as pirate. In battle itself, there shouldnt be some artificial advantages only available to some players.

Edited July 1, 2016 by Sharden

[vjrs01]

There are some excellent and innovative modifications here; thanks, and well done.

 

Where is the correct and official place to suggest potential perks, please, and is there a formal way of notifying the player that the suggestion (where-ever it may be) is being considered? I have found a couple of suggestions seem to disappear in the foam never to be seen again...

[Vernon Merrill]

I still don't understand why they don't just have the traditional officers available instead of "perks"... I don't want a "thrifty" first lieutenant, I want a good purser... I don't want a "pirate hunter", I want a good master gunner. I don't want a "frigate master" to go Mach 7, I want a good boatswain....

It's not a game breaker... It's just kinda silly.

[cpt Terenor]

Are you crazy with the price of medikit/crew and repairkit ? not everyone have the time for play 12 hours per days

 

and the big Missions for win golds is not a option annymor with the low playerbase

Edited July 1, 2016 by cpt Terenor

[Tac]

Pirates was supposed to be hard mode all along?

 

And now that it might be, pirates come out and complain.

 

I think we both know a vast majority of rats did not choose to be rats because they fancied the hardest challenge,some did and do most did not. I agree it should be,it should be hard very hard,but rewarding in a different way.

[BallsOfSteel]

I feel the cost of crew has effectively stopped attacking of many fleets, its simply too expensive. Even simple boarding of large traders costs a lot of crew.

 

Happy to explore as the cost is sorted, i see the new tobacco cost is killing everyone LOL.

Silver is worthless

Gold is worthless.

Chances after patch of getting a bottle are the same as Britain re-entering the EU LOL.

 

I still look forward to PB rework.

[cpt Terenor]

This games is a crafting simulator or a navals games ?

Edited July 1, 2016 by cpt Terenor