Fuge Posted June 30, 2016 Posted June 30, 2016 "Boarding tuned slightly" ..... I blanche at the thought of what 'significant tuning' might look like. Given my metal-poor home area, I have been developing quite a passion for capping traders in my Snow (2/5 slots with Purple Marines, Boarding Parties, Grog Rations, Handbooks and Muskets - also Barricades), which I had down to a fine art of 3-5 mins total 'processing' time of anything smaller than an LGV - given a perfect tag to start with. Boardings would take around 3-4 rounds of combat (only 1 for a Traders Lynx of course) but now I find it takes at least 11 rounds to deal with a Traders Brig - and this is even after the drop in crew on the Brig from 70 to 50 (also resulting from this patch). Therefore, perhaps this issue could be revisited and maybe rolled back a little to "Boarding tuned only very slightly" pretty please? Otherwise most interesting patch thanks. Love the fishing ... so far. 1
Iluadra Posted June 30, 2016 Posted June 30, 2016 This is their first attempt to get people to realize a boarding only ship is a silly concept... You should almost never be able to board a ship with more crew then you and be assured of winning.. let alone one with a LOT more crew then you Did you ever heard of corsair ? Like Surcouf who captured bigger boat than him, with significant less crew than him ? Battle is not always decided by who have the bigger crew... Determinded Officer is just the most absurd perks in the game. I just captured a indiaman, with my surprise, after 25 minutes grapping his ass. SO COOL GAMEPLAY. and I could have spend 20 minutes more if he didn't choose to board me ( Thanks to him ). What can I do now ? Hunting trader in Santissima to be sure to have 40% more than my ennemy ? The determined Officer is not a bad idea, but may be give a extra bonus to defense, or extra preparation or morale... Not this perk which is really game breaking and so frustrating for 1vs1...
Hethwill, the Red Duke Posted June 30, 2016 Posted June 30, 2016 Noticed seagul screech and distant battle cannonade thunder sounds. Really good ones.
KrakkenSmacken Posted June 30, 2016 Posted June 30, 2016 "Boarding tuned slightly" ..... I blanche at the thought of what 'significant tuning' might look like. Given my metal-poor home area, I have been developing quite a passion for capping traders in my Snow (2/5 slots with Purple Marines, Boarding Parties, Grog Rations, Handbooks and Muskets - also Barricades), which I had down to a fine art of 3-5 mins total 'processing' time of anything smaller than an LGV - given a perfect tag to start with. Boardings would take around 3-4 rounds of combat (only 1 for a Traders Lynx of course) but now I find it takes at least 11 rounds to deal with a Traders Brig - and this is even after the drop in crew on the Brig from 70 to 50 (also resulting from this patch). Therefore, perhaps this issue could be revisited and maybe rolled back a little to "Boarding tuned only very slightly" pretty please? Otherwise most interesting patch thanks. Love the fishing ... so far. I like the idea that boarding is harder for closer matched crews. To cap traders try using a Gros if you have the levels for it. Has 10 guns for the sails, 240 crew to quickly overwhelm, 3 rounds 15 crew loss max with very moderate buffs, does not require the full crew for guns so you can keep board prep up the entire fight with very limited degradation in performance, and enough holds that you never have to worry about sailing your prize back home. Built for speed they are the best capture pirate ship for the small stuff, and even against their own class you can chain/stern/grape to good effect. It takes more work to get a target Gros down to below 200 crew (where I started to consider boarding before the crew patch).
SeaMist Posted June 30, 2016 Posted June 30, 2016 Cost of Crew replacement. Captains mission (152) I am sailing a third rate vs a Trinco. Financial reward from mission $23,419 including the $5000 mission reward. Ship repair is modest at $3091. To replace the mere 25 or so crew lost (from 712) was $13,500 leaving $9919 for the mission. A few more crew losses and I would have been going backwards. In a major battle at this rate you would be bankrupted even if the ship came out ok. I don't believe this is sustainable. 2
KrakkenSmacken Posted June 30, 2016 Posted June 30, 2016 (edited) Still testing the changes before giving my feedback, but I do have a comment regarding the upcoming removal of teleport. This is a good thing, because to get from A to B everything (ships and materials) should have to travel on the open world. Both because there should be a chance for them to be intercepted while in transit, but primarily because it causes people to stay out of the OW unless absolutely necessary. The biggest complaint I hear about removing ship TP is that sailing is boring, but that's in large part because nobody has to sail on the OW unless they are out hunting or making a short trade hop. This kills the experience of running in to other players on the OW anywhere other than right outside your capital green zone or a free port, and causes the boredom on sea hauls. No opportunities for fights, no opportunities of coming across allies and sailing in company or passing along information to one another of other ships/groups you've seen on your trip. I get that some people don't have a long time to play each day, and having to move an outpost or move goods could take up a good chunk of that time. But what's more exciting? Logging in, making a few clicks, logging back out, then logging in again later to find your ship/goods at the new port; or having a good fight on your way or a nail-biting escape from a raider and finishing the trip tomorrow because you actually had fun today? I don't mind the removal of TP [EDIT CAPTURED SHIP TP ONLY, NOT CURRENT CAPTAIN TP] provided as long as it is replaced by AI hires of ships that actually travel the OW, rather than the current deliveries model, where product is basically teleported for a cost. Just as much as traders don't want to be forced to fight to do their thing, as a pirate/fighter/crafter I don't want to be forced to do trade runs to do my thing. I could easily pirate in hostile waters, and sell my goods, TP home, and then try to buy them, to avoid having to do the shipping myself, but I don't want to be reliant on my capital port to have the stock I need, because I've been let down by those supplies far too many times already. Currently the delivery mechanics cover that job, but in reality all goods should cross the OW at some point, and not jump around all over the place. As to the last question in your last paragraph, the answer for me is the, some days the clicking, some days the sailing. I consider shipping goods to be not fun most of the time, or at the very least far less fun than other aspects of the game. So when I have limited time I would rather make a few clicks to take care of that business, so I can get onto what I think is more fun. If I know there is a time barrier to getting to the parts I want to play, and I don't want to go through that barrier, I will simply play something that doesn't have those. Eventually, if those barriers are often enough, or egregious enough, I simply stop playing the game altogether. If you find it fun, good for you, some people like to row boats for entertainment. so imagine if I told you before you could get into your ship, you had to have a fitness tracker tell the game that you had rowed enough to have cleared the docks and made it to your ship which was anchored at port. Trying to make access to one type of game play hidden behind a requirement to participate in other game play is a good way to reduce your appeal. Those that don't have time to spend, will only spend it on things they find fun. Edited June 30, 2016 by KrakkenSmacken
Vernon Merrill Posted June 30, 2016 Posted June 30, 2016 (edited) I don't believe this is sustainable. Good. Edited June 30, 2016 by Vernon Merrill
KrakkenSmacken Posted June 30, 2016 Posted June 30, 2016 Cost of Crew replacement. Captains mission (152) I am sailing a third rate vs a Trinco. Financial reward from mission $23,419 including the $5000 mission reward. Ship repair is modest at $3091. To replace the mere 25 or so crew lost (from 712) was $13,500 leaving $9919 for the mission. A few more crew losses and I would have been going backwards. In a major battle at this rate you would be bankrupted even if the ship came out ok. I don't believe this is sustainable. I hope they go another way than just reducing the cost of crew. I would rather see it easier to earn, and lose money, that to always feel like your behind. To accomplish this they could raise the re-sale value of captured ships, increase the amount of materials returned from breaking up ships, loosen the trade numbers so it is more profitable. I worry that with the mention that "printing gold" for damage will eventually come to an end, that the money supply will get very very tight. They need to consider just how tight they want it, because the tighter it is, the less it feels like you can get ahead, the less appealing the economy game will be. If war is expensive, then you need enough income sources to offset that expense.
SeaMist Posted June 30, 2016 Posted June 30, 2016 I don't believe this is sustainable. Good. Not so good if we are reduced to sailing basic cutters because that's all anyone can afford. Imagine if that was a loss of 250 crew. That's $135,000. That's a lot of tuna. War is indeed expensive but it wasn't the captain who paid for it. It was the nation through taxation.
Enraged Ewok Posted June 30, 2016 Posted June 30, 2016 As to the last question in your last paragraph, the answer for me is the, some days the clicking, some days the sailing. I consider shipping goods to be not fun most of the time, or at the very least far less fun than other aspects of the game. So when I have limited time I would rather make a few clicks to take care of that business, so I can get onto what I think is more fun. If I know there is a time barrier to getting to the parts I want to play, and I don't want to go through that barrier, I will simply play something that doesn't have those. Eventually, if those barriers are often enough, or egregious enough, I simply stop playing the game altogether. If you find it fun, good for you, some people like to row boats for entertainment. so imagine if I told you before you could get into your ship, you had to have a fitness tracker tell the game that you had rowed enough to have cleared the docks and made it to your ship which was anchored at port. Trying to make access to one type of game play hidden behind a requirement to participate in other game play is a good way to reduce your appeal. Those that don't have time to spend, will only spend it on things they find fun. The point I am making is not that you should be required to do it despite it being not fun. The point is that it CAN be fun, provided that OW actually has players on it doing the same business you're doing, rather than just teleporting ships and goods from A to B. Doing it all by AI on the OW goes back to the same issue I have with AI fleets following players, and any combat involving AI in general. AI is not fun. So while moving ships or goods over time through OW by AI increases the amount of ships on the OW, at the end of the day it's still the same boring AI with no human interaction, even if the end result of the player losing a ship or cargo is the same. And at the same time, this is frustrating for the player who sent the shipment because when it happens, they will know it was the terrible AI that lost it and had they been sailing, maybe they wouldn't have. 1
Cpt Blackthorne Posted June 30, 2016 Posted June 30, 2016 A pretty fundamental economic change I noticed today not even mentioned in the notes (or if it is, it's so obscure that I missed it despite several reads): NPC port consumption rates for resources have been dramatically lowered. And while pre-patch production patterns seem to remain largely untouched, previous consumption patterns have been altered as well. For example, there are ports which formerly consumed Compass Wood but no longer (example: Belize). While other ports which formerly consumed Compass still do so, but at drastically lowered rates (example: Tantun Cuzamil). Meanwhile, production building extraction costs have been halved and production rate/stowage capacity doubled...but there's going to be fewer places to sell those items, and those ports are going to fill up to the 25K cap faster. With current state of population on servers, we won't fully feel this for several days, maybe longer. EEeeehhh I felt this the very first moment i logged in at 10ish pm EST. My nearest cwood port is no longer a consumer and wanted only 500 for it. That is ridiculous! Now I'm spending today moving ships, making long cwood sail and closing down these buildings to relocate. :(
Jean Ribault Posted June 30, 2016 Posted June 30, 2016 A pretty fundamental economic change I noticed today not even mentioned in the notes (or if it is, it's so obscure that I missed it despite several reads): NPC port consumption rates for resources have been dramatically lowered. And while pre-patch production patterns seem to remain largely untouched, previous consumption patterns have been altered as well. For example, there are ports which formerly consumed Compass Wood but no longer (example: Belize). While other ports which formerly consumed Compass still do so, but at drastically lowered rates (example: Tantun Cuzamil). Meanwhile, production building extraction costs have been halved and production rate/stowage capacity doubled...but there's going to be fewer places to sell those items, and those ports are going to fill up to the 25K cap faster. With current state of population on servers, we won't fully feel this for several days, maybe longer. EEeeehhh I felt this the very first moment i logged in at 10ish pm EST. My nearest cwood port is no longer a consumer and wanted only 500 for it. That is ridiculous! Now I'm spending today moving ships, making long cwood sail and closing down these buildings to relocate. :( I don't have a problem with it. Trading, we've already spent the effort before this patch to figure things out for our own homebase of operations for our best ROI. It's the same thing now, just have to re-invest effort to study and learn the new system to best beat it. I've already figured out 3 or 4 profitable changes after about 3 hours play in one session, and I have new ideas to try next time on. IMO, I think this is actually a good thing, because this new challenge is causing us to have to diversify more to get the same or better results. And as always, it's subject to change (and definitely will). 2
Vernon Merrill Posted June 30, 2016 Posted June 30, 2016 Not so good if we are reduced to sailing basic cutters because that's all anyone can afford. Imagine if that was a loss of 250 crew. That's $135,000. That's a lot of tuna. War is indeed expensive but it wasn't the captain who paid for it. It was the nation through taxation. 2 things... Why would you choose to run a fleet ALL the time, if ever? And also, bigger isnt always better. If anything, it will make naval battles more realistic instead of boarding fests... Just my $.02
SeaMist Posted June 30, 2016 Posted June 30, 2016 2 things... Why would you choose to run a fleet ALL the time, if ever? And also, bigger isnt always better. If anything, it will make naval battles more realistic instead of boarding fests... Just my $.02 Who is running a fleet? Who is boarding? That's normal crew for a third rate & extra hammocks. That is a single one on one mission outcome. Trinco sunk with major damage. Sorry. I can't see how even a 'low level of damage mission' becoming economically unviable helps anyone. Or how it makes anything more realistic.
Hethwill, the Red Duke Posted June 30, 2016 Posted June 30, 2016 Not so good if we are reduced to sailing basic cutters because that's all anyone can afford. Imagine if that was a loss of 250 crew. That's $135,000. That's a lot of tuna. War is indeed expensive but it wasn't the captain who paid for it. It was the nation through taxation. Captain had to present results also or be relegated to a brig in blockade duty, at best, and never making to Post. Actually the jump to Post was the most demanding step. In that part of development we are indeed missing it. Everything we do is rewarded, even the most vile and ungentlemanly acts.
SeaMist Posted June 30, 2016 Posted June 30, 2016 Captain had to present results also or be relegated to a brig in blockade duty, at best, and never making to Post. Actually the jump to Post was the most demanding step. In that part of development we are indeed missing it. Everything we do is rewarded, even the most vile and ungentlemanly acts. That would be interesting....win or the next five missions are blockading in a brig......:-)
Hethwill, the Red Duke Posted June 30, 2016 Posted June 30, 2016 bahahaha... nope. But NOT rewarding failure would be interesting ( had a paper written long ago about the rewards in games whatever media. Then we saw all computer persistent games rewarding everything just to keep pop up... now we see a reversal with all survival ironman titles... who knows, maybe mmo titles pick up on something like that. I still like the tabletop stuff where you only win if you win )
Ledinis Posted June 30, 2016 Posted June 30, 2016 So has anyone of these people crying about the prices of crew replacement actually tried crafting and using med kits ?
SeaMist Posted June 30, 2016 Posted June 30, 2016 (edited) So has anyone of these people crying about the prices of crew replacement actually tried crafting and using med kits ? Yes, It's how I am sailing a Third Rate. I thought med kits were for sea use but as they are completely new I have no idea what they actually do....Do they replace crew? And they are not cheap either. Edited June 30, 2016 by SeaMist
SeaMist Posted June 30, 2016 Posted June 30, 2016 (edited) I'm actually surprised that no one else is crying about it. Guys losing their ship with major crew losses in port battles, straight pvp leaving you with no crew (I am assuming here). I'm on the PVE server. I CAN trade and I CAN craft my way to more cash. But hey if no one else cares why should I? Edited June 30, 2016 by SeaMist
Vernon Merrill Posted June 30, 2016 Posted June 30, 2016 I dont know... I guess thiss is only a problem f you are constantly using a ship above your rank or play the boarding game without taking the enemy down sufficiently. And i'm pretty sure the crew pool regenerates over time. I lost maybe 100 yesterday sailing around in my Connie all day, just replacing them with the slider in the battle results screen. Never came close to putting a big dent in my pool. And as a bonus, I log on today to discover my crew pool back to max. My take is that it MAY hurt if you are driving a Santi or Vic to multiple port battles. But unless you always sail at the max of your rank AND lose a few duras in a short span, this is not too bad.
SeaMist Posted June 30, 2016 Posted June 30, 2016 just replacing them with the slider in the battle results screen.??? What slider? I have been replacing them in port. Is this another unexplained feature? 2
Hethwill, the Red Duke Posted June 30, 2016 Posted June 30, 2016 just replacing them with the slider in the battle results screen.??? What slider? I have been replacing them in port. Is this another unexplained feature? OW, click to expand to ship info, click Manage Crew, use slider I guess.
Ledinis Posted June 30, 2016 Posted June 30, 2016 Yes, It's how I am sailing a Third Rate. I thought med kits were for sea use but as they are completely new I have no idea what they actually do....Do they replace crew? And they are not cheap either. Yes you use them in open sea and they restore your lost crew. The NPC sold ones are not cheap but if you craft them yourself from mats it brings down the cost of hiring more than twice. 1
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