Broken fleet battle mechanics/players with no honour(includes french heroes)

[VonCarra]

Long story short:

 

Today was really quiet on servers so i decided to make easy XP by doing fleet missions.So i grabbed two missions 118 and 132 which were near home port.As there were pretty much enemies sailing (ganking) on home waters and as noob i wont sail other side of nation to get one easy fleet mission...

 

As i started my fleet mission suddenly these two french heroes join in in order to gank me...

Ok, broken game, solo player takes (easy 118xp) mission and wants to play it , instead you get AI fleet + two heroes who think its funny to come and ruin everything...

 

(i really dont know why enemy players are able to join fleet  missions anyway)

 

Starting point was  8 vs. 1 since my two dumb AI ships sunked right away in beginning.two guest had trinco and connie and i had inger.

What in heck these two french (sry to say but useless r*****ds) try to achieve when they join in clearly in order to get easy catch and my ship?

For over 40 minutes these french heroes try to board me, shoot me, sunk me and same time i have these 6 ai ships shooting me....

 

 

Then after 40 minutes something really fun happened, as i shot both them, gave them leaks and put one frenchie on fire what these heroes do then?

Off course they are running away in order to flee as usual(typical tactic for frenchies)

 

 

 

They have nerve to come in MY fleet mission and still after they utterly fail to capture my ship they dont even fight like a man, to the death?

Ok, they flead away, i thought i go and finish other one of those heroes but my sails were at 60% and i still had rest 6 ai ships behind me.

 so i just let these war heroes go as i was just so amazed how these two guys behaved.

 

After a while, as being ganked ,shot, almost boarded and lost over half of my loved crew and half of my sails i ended my pathetic "easy" xp fleet mission...timer showed then few minutes left.

 

 

 

 

Little hint to you , yes you two frenchies, you must be proud how much honour you two guys have.Next time i sink you and i wont let you go as i now did.,.Trust me, i dont never give up.And learn some basic good manners, so sad to see your kind of guys playing this game.At least stay in game and fight to end if you join in first place, but dont run like cowards.Same applies your cheap tactics by using fleet mission to try to cap player who even saw you but sailed away, yet you deciced to join and harras me?

 

 

And finally, question for devs:

 

A:   why enemies can join into fleet missions? Another great way to abuse game in order to gank more?

B:   When enemy players join to fleet missions do they get my ship if they board me? If so, then change it.Fleet  missions in my eye are solo/team missions totally outside of PvP...

 

Ps. No harm done, i just dont like rude and unnecessary harrassing, even if it´s part of game.Some decency please...thats all i ask.

 

 

 

 

[SteelSandwich]

 

 

And finally, question for devs:

 

A:   why enemies can join into fleet missions? Another great way to abuse game in order to gank more?

B:   When enemy players join to fleet missions do they get my ship if they board me? If so, then change it.Fleet  missions in my eye are solo/team missions totally outside of PvP...

 

 

 

A. The missions initially were protected, yet people used/abused the missions to attack/gank people until a larger host would appear and so they would 'flee' into the missions and be protected until the larger host got bored and left.

B. Yes they do and this (to my knowledge) will not change. When considering the above, fleeing into a mission knowing the enemy cant capture your ship is very gamey/trollish.

[Mrdoomed]

This is why ive said for months that so many easy pve missions for ovp servers is killing the game.

Person a joins pvp server but wants to play everquest style quests by himself person b is starved for pvp because everyone is in pve missions. Person b is finally so overjoyed to even see another player he goes into mission in the hopes of any kind of pvp at all.

Person A then gets mad and quits because someone dared to pvp him in a pvp server while he pve'ed.

Its to late now but they should never have had pve missions past 2nd or maybe 3rd lvl on a pvp server and certainly not fleet missions. All it does is cause both types players to quit. They should only be on a pve sever.

The damage is done so it dont matter but i can see how this happens all tje time.

[Nash]

This is why ive said for months that so many easy pve missions for ovp servers is killing the game.

Person a joins pvp server but wants to play everquest style quests by himself person b is starved for pvp because everyone is in pve missions. Person b is finally so overjoyed to even see another player he goes into mission in the hopes of any kind of pvp at all.

Person A then gets mad and quits because someone dared to pvp him in a pvp server while he pve'ed.

Its to late now but they should never have had pve missions past 2nd or maybe 3rd lvl on a pvp server and certainly not fleet missions. All it does is cause both types players to quit. They should only be on a pve sever.

The damage is done so it dont matter but i can see how this happens all tje time.

 

I like your idea but we can also make it a bit easier for people. They can take mission at higher level but when you get to Port Captain in pvp server, you should have at least some pvp experience in order to lvl up to RA.

Edited June 23, 2016 by Nash

[Mrdoomed]

Or make the mission in enemy waters so they may run into pvp.

[Skully]

It isn't broken, it's just a full PvP area. Pacific coast is coming, but it'll be another 3 months (at least).

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/14640-devlog-forthcoming-content-patches-plan/?p=271569

 

Now while Pacific Coast will be considered a PvE area, I'm not entirely sure whether admin reckoned people jumping missions and such.

If so, then that would be considered a bug. IMO Captains should have a completely free, safe, PvE area down there and can carelessly sail/mission about.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Still Characters/Assets won't be shared between Oceans. If it is only about rank, sure, it is a option.

 

Note: Jumping missions is second only to absurd BR diferences as donkey buttocks move.

[VonCarra]

 

 

A. The missions initially were protected, yet people used/abused the missions to attack/gank people until a larger host would appear and so they would 'flee' into the missions and be protected until the larger host got bored and left.

 

In my case i was floating beside flag for minutes (phonecall)and those two french were approx. 1 to  1.5 kilometers away when i started my fleet mission.I didnt go into fleet mission to get away from them, i was pretty close to home harbour and there were tons of swedish ships including big friendly  ai fleets near by...and i really dont see two ships they had against my ship as threat, only in mission i was bit frustrated as they used those 6 AI enemies to help to fulfill their goal a.k.a ganking me when i was on solo mission...

 

So, what i mean is that these two guys just decided to join my fleet mission in order to use my mission + them as easy kill and loot.Nothing more.Lucky me was that i had "only" 118XP mission since i usually do 132 and above missions to get somewhat nicer training exercises.(to be honest 158 and above are no-go for me as difficulty skyrockets from there, you need team efforts in higher missions unless you have bigger ship and as i "only" have sluggish ingerman it really pointless to do 168XP--->  missions alone)

 

There were tons of other swedes sailing in their proximity, yet they turned their ships on me and sailed on my mission...that shows their mentality pretty clear.

 

I dont really mind to fight uneven battles, in fact there is this one nation i have never had even teams at battles, every time this one nation has even teams they usually flee away, unless they have good BR rating on their side they wont fight.Even if they have slight advantage they usually flee as they dont like to risk anything.

In other hand all respect and salutes to danes as many times they will engage even if they have less br...

 

Sry to say this but i have had only 3 vs. 1 to 7-9 vs. 2 matches with frenchies, all rest battles where i have been with even team and BR ratings they ALWAYS flee away.I mean ALWAYS.

That is frustrating and even funny in same time.

 

And what comes for fleet missions i really find those usefull.When server has low population i rather take these AI missions to train and get some XP than just sit around.

Picking up harder missions can sometimes be very challenging fights depending how quickly your ai fleet sunks and even if ai uses same tactics all over again its good practice anyway.

Playing battles with undercrewed ships, using nothing but manual sails on battles, trying to fine coordinate your moves against theirs same time keeping your ship having a wind advantage etc. those are reasons i like ai missions.And to be honest , ai do have murderous shooting accuracy in missions, so even lower br rating ships are deadly there, specially if you let them on your stern...i have had fleet missions where i take like 152 xp mission and after 5-10 minutes i made one mistake and whoops, there are 2-4 enemies in my stern raking me and even get me on fire...those are hard and fun missions.But not when enemies join in same time using ai fleet as artificial helper to get easy merit...

[Mrdoomed]

Sounds to me like you have more of a xenophobia towards french people the a problem with the game. Considering the title, the amount of times mentioning thier nation, and the way you are trying to cleverly mock them as cowards and french.

Obviously you are European ( whether you admit or not ). I cant wait to play on a server where everyone hates each other for stupid reasons.

[Bach]

First off this was not a gank. Had it been a gank they would have come in with 6 or more players in at least Ingermanlands. By your own account this was more or less a fair fight. Lucky for you they were greedy and apparently intent on boarding you as it probably bought you a few extra rounds to damage them at close range.

It's a pvp game. Or at least it is supposed to be. Pirates, privateers or even national frigates sailing the seas in search of targets is what it is about. It's not about them sailing up to you and politely asking for permission to have a fight against your larger and PVE tanked out boat. As it was this event went in your favor. You should be thanking them for the experience and excitement to your eventual win. Or maybe you just preferred pushing the same sequence of buttons over and over killing mindless NPCs.

In any event here is the bottom line. They were playing a pvp game as a team and contesting a larger stronger target. You were playing a solo PVE game and are now angry that they interrupted your PVE. I'm sorry, but you are the one in the wrong. Before you start telling me how people like you will QUIT THE GAME if players can jump into your PVE mission stop and consider this. How much effect does a soloist PVE player really have on a pvp game if no other player is allowed to interact with them? The answer is a big zero. You could leave tomorrow and the population number will drop a point. But pvp, the sway of RvR and everything else that makes the game a pvp game will not have changed. In fact, IF the DEVs ever give you exactly what you are asking for the pvp game will die off at least in part and those players will quit. Eventually there won't be any real pvp but arranged duels and the remaining pvp players all hanging around one port. Meanwhile the PVE game will thrive in its isolated solo instances across the game. But the game itself will no longer be a pvp game. Balance must be maintained. Pvp must exist and PVE players inside it must have a reasonable chance to play in it too. However, guaranteed safety will always destroy the pvp side of the game over time.

Edited June 24, 2016 by Bach

[Mrdoomed]

First off this was not a gank. Had it been a gank they would have come in with 6 or more players in at least Ingermanlands. By your own account this was more or less a fair fight. Lucky for you they were greedy and apparently intent on boarding you as it probably bought you a few extra rounds to damage them at close range.

It's a pvp game. Or at least it is supposed to be. Pirates, privateers or even national frigates sailing the seas in search of targets is what it is about. It's not about them sailing up to you and politely asking for permission to have a fight against your larger and PVE tanked out boat. As it was this event went in your favor. You should be thanking them for the experience and excitement to your eventual win. Or maybe you just preferred pushing the same sequence of buttons over and over killing mindless NPCs.

In any event here is the bottom line. They were playing a pvp game as a team and contesting a larger stronger target. You were playing a solo PVE game and are now angry that they interrupted your PVE. I'm sorry, but you are the one in the wrong. Before you start telling me how people like you will QUIT THE GAME if players can jump into your PVE mission stop and consider this. How much effect does a soloist PVE player really have on a pvp game if no other player is allowed to interact with them? The answer is a big zero. You could leave tomorrow and the population number will drop a point. But pvp, the sway of RvR and everything else that makes the game a pvp game will not have changed. In fact, IF the DEVs ever give you exactly what you are asking for the pvp game will die off at least in part and those players will quit. Eventually there won't be any real pvp but arranged duels and the remaining pvp players all hanging around one port. Meanwhile the PVE game will thrive in its isolated solo instances across the game. But the game itself will no longer be a pvp game. Balance must be maintained. Pvp must exist and PVE players inside it must have a reasonable chance to play in it too. However, guaranteed safety will always destroy the pvp side of the game over time.

This all day long and twice on sudays!

+295

[VonCarra]

First off this was not a gank. Had it been a gank they would have come in with 6 or more players in at least Ingermanlands. By your own account this was more or less a fair fight. Lucky for you they were greedy and apparently intent on boarding you as it probably bought you a few extra rounds to damage them at close range.

It's a pvp game. Or at least it is supposed to be. Pirates, privateers or even national frigates sailing the seas in search of targets is what it is about. It's not about them sailing up to you and politely asking for permission to have a fight against your larger and PVE tanked out boat. As it was this event went in your favor. You should be thanking them for the experience and excitement to your eventual win. Or maybe you just preferred pushing the same sequence of buttons over and over killing mindless NPCs.

In any event here is the bottom line. They were playing a pvp game as a team and contesting a larger stronger target. You were playing a solo PVE game and are now angry that they interrupted your PVE. I'm sorry, but you are the one in the wrong. Before you start telling me how people like you will QUIT THE GAME if players can jump into your PVE mission stop and consider this. How much effect does a soloist PVE player really have on a pvp game if no other player is allowed to interact with them? The answer is a big zero. You could leave tomorrow and the population number will drop a point. But pvp, the sway of RvR and everything else that makes the game a pvp game will not have changed. In fact, IF the DEVs ever give you exactly what you are asking for the pvp game will die off at least in part and those players will quit. Eventually there won't be any real pvp but arranged duels and the remaining pvp players all hanging around one port. Meanwhile the PVE game will thrive in its isolated solo instances across the game. But the game itself will no longer be a pvp game. Balance must be maintained. Pvp must exist and PVE players inside it must have a reasonable chance to play in it too. However, guaranteed safety will always destroy the pvp side of the game over time.

 

No, you miss my point here...

 

All i say that using PvE missions like these two did is just useless, not maybe to them, but in generally...PvE mission is mission where i took mission alone or with my team, not missions where enemies can come and use your missions to get even more "unfair" advantage? Even if i only had "easy" mission 8 vs. 1 really fulfills terms "ganking" what if i would started 158Xp mission? Or higher? my chances to come out alive would be pretty much zero...and for what? Picking up mission that are supposed to be  "personal" not related to actual PvP at all?

 

Those who do this are just lamers.Thats my point.

 

As i wrote, i dont mind to battle with non-even odds, but seeing these two doing what they did is nothing but idiotic.There were tons of other "targets" in area yet they pushed in single player mission seeing glitter and gold and maybe easy loot&kill.

 

Please, dont get me wrong, game has strong PvP and inside it has PvE too, being intentionally "un-sportman like" is the main thing here.Nothing else.

It´s just bad excuse that you CAN do that, its cheap tactic nothing more.Cheap tactic for cheap players.

 

If i would ever want safe playing i would make character on PvE server, but still, playing in PvP side... devs created possibility to play these "single player" or "team/clan" missions, playing these missions should really be outside of PvP.At least that is my opinion.Some of you may find fleet missions useless and being here just because an easy way to have XP, i see fleet missions part of game and this kind of chance to misuse fleetmissions is just very boring way to do that same "ganking" or whatever you might call it.PvP side is for that.

 

I quit here from my part.Next time i see enemy going for mission i will engage him.So everyones happy now?

Edited June 24, 2016 by VonCarra

[Mrdoomed]

No, you miss my point here...

All i say that using PvE missions like these two did is just useless, not maybe to them, but in generally...PvE mission is mission where i took mission alone or with my team, not missions where enemies can come and use your missions to get even more "unfair" advantage? Even if i only had "easy" mission 8 vs. 1 really fulfills terms "ganking" what if i would started 158Xp mission? Or higher? my chances to come out alive would be pretty much zero...and for what? Picking up mission that are supposed to be "personal" not related to actual PvP at all?

Those who do this are just lamers.Thats my point.

As i wrote, i dont mind to battle with non-even odds, but seeing these two doing what they did is nothing but idiotic.There were tons of other "targets" in area yet they pushed in single player mission seeing glitter and gold and maybe easy loot&kill.

Please, dont get me wrong, game has strong PvP and inside it has PvE too, being intentionally "un-sportman like" is the main thing here.Nothing else.

It´s just bad excuse that you CAN do that, its cheap tactic nothing more.Cheap tactic for cheap players.

If i would ever want safe playing i would make character on PvE server, but still, playing in PvP side... devs created possibility to play these "single player" or "team/clan" missions, playing these missions should really be outside of PvP.At least that is my opinion.Some of you may find fleet missions useless and being here just because an easy way to have XP, i see fleet missions part of game and this kind of chance to misuse fleetmissions is just very boring way to do that same "ganking" or whatever you might call it.PvP side is for that.

I quit here from my part.Next time i see enemy going for mission i will engage him.So everyones happy now?

Again. Pvp , rvr game. You are thier enemy. They tried to ruin your mission aka slow down your climb to power therfore helping thier side. They did the right thing.

Pve server is safe space.

[VonCarra]

opinion is opinion.I do understand it.

 

For me abusing game mechanics is just no-go.I do respect my enemies , even so much that i rather meet them in fair&square than abusing silly game mechanics.

So, salute! to all and may the wind be on your side...

[Bach]

I understand that you view the mission as a personal solo instance. However this is not really that case the Devs have built for us.

Months ago these very rules were discussed at length. All players used to be able to jump into missions. They started out as national events that included pvp and not solo PVE events at all. Enemies could always jump into enemy missions making them a pvp challenging event for players patrolling their home waters.

Some players on the same team were using the missions to kill steal from their own team farming NPCs for money and xp. For this reason they changed the rules so national team mates, not in your group, could not enter your missions. But enemy entry is still permitted as it always was so there was pvp potential to mission running. The missions never were PVE only or even specific to a personal player in origin. They have become specific to player/group due to previous exploitation. But they have always been pvp capable events. This is why I had assumed you were asking for a change to PVE specific missions.

Incidentally, those two French chose you as a target over the others in the area specifically because you triggered a mission near them. By doing this you unknowingly set up a situation where it was impossible for your team mates in the area to assist you. Making you the easiest target on that particular area. Imagine their Suprise when you beat them at their own game. Well done.

Edited June 24, 2016 by Bach

[VonCarra]

ok, i have only played this game for maybe 3.5 weeks so i didnt know things you wrote...

And no, even if i was just promoted to flaggcaptain i only use fleetmissions when server is pretty much dead/quiet and for training purposes.

I didnt know such history of using fleet missions you described.

Even more so, not giving your own nation a chance to join the mechanics make this kind of playing even more profitable for enemy nation players to join into missions...

No need to worry 'bout reinforcements while you can use ai to help you doing same thing as you do in strict Pvp...

Anyway, tnx for info.My understanding has been that fleet missions are part of game to train/gather xp and that these missions are somewhat separeted from actual Pvp enviroment...

[Æthlstan]

I dont think PvE provides good training for PvP. If training is your purpose, those two french did you a service.

If you were in a group they could have come and helped you.  As previously stated, they stopped allowing non-group members into the mission due to XP stealing and other abuses. It was stated that if someone wants to do a mission alone, then they should be allowed to challenge themselves.  But as this is a PvP server enemies will still be allowed to join. Missions are content generators. You created content for those 2 french players and they gladly took part in it. 

 

This was not a gank. 2 players vs 1 player is more than survivable (as you proved). You failed to have good situational awareness and therefore placed yourself in the position of facing 2 players instead of just AI. It is ok to leave instead of fighting to the death. They could have done that and killed you. But they left, most likely out of respect for your tenacity!

[VonCarra]

Nah. They had both one side shot down and my boat was almost intact...in fact i was nearly bout sinking the other one but i took severe hits from rest 6 ai ships which were in my stern and decided rather save my duras instead being greedy.
And no, i once more try to say that even i only got easy mission the reason i hate these kind if things is that you do have overly accurate enemies on you as well...and there two players who joined had 6 ai helpers to prevent any good defensive moves for me, having 8 ships on your stern is still 8 ships.not just 2.

Thats basicly is just good thing if you manage to change your mental thinking and take 6 enemy ships + two players with equal or better armour as practice.

Only reason i was able to survive from enemy fire was to position me always between player and ai, cause even in 118xp mission those enemy ships are pretty deadly if they get free line to your stern.

Off course these frenchies spended most time both sides on me so i just had "easy" job for lowering their hulls down as they actually blocked murderous ai fire to my stern, the vulnerable part of ingerman.

Yesterday i had "normal" battle agaist three danes and even i made stupid mistake after 46 minutes while i was bout to sunk one of their ships the odds with inger vs. two connies + 1 essex with good skippers is pretty much low as inger do have less armour than connie, allthough turns better until you lose sails...that fleet mission with 6 ai + two players is as hard as that yesterdays battle where i losed by getting stuck on beach while i tried to get at least that essex down...which was allready lost whole side.
(for sidenote i did get my revenge on that essex 15 minutes later as I was able to tag him and used help with faster ship to slow her down and into fight, yes it was my time to have fun with 2vs1 but game is game, you play as they do...)

Yes,those are Pvp battles i do accept, still my opinion bout PvE missions stand, ai is in higher xp missions even more deadly than average player as they load quicker, raise sails quicker, turn tighter and shoot more aqqurately.

That gives those enemy players tremendous help when they are able to join "solo" missions just for getting easy chance for loot...

 

One forumer wrote well on situation we now have in this game, i use my fleet battle for extreme example of this same attitude except once again, i dont think "solo" missions as strict PvP but as reading comments i now realize this is just one way to abuse game mechanics(as you cant have reinforcements but enemy can still join against you):

 

 

 

What has been happening before and during this war is unhealthy PvP. Gank squads on all sides who work around the anti ganking timers and figure out how to gank anyways. They dont go out "looking for PvP" they go out to play farmville, where lone ships are their food. If they get an equal fight, they run. If they have a slight advantage, thats not good enough, so they still run. These players do not want PvP, they want easy exceptionals. This isn't healthy PvP,  because it isnt even PvP

Edited June 25, 2016 by VonCarra

[PIerrick de Badas]

i don't see the object of this post posted i national news.

Should we post every gank screen there and start a topic for each one?

They see an ingermanland, they try to attack it, the inger join a fleet/an event to hide/ they fail to gank him. GG for the drunks which survive. What to say more? Happend before the treaty so this topic is a bit useles here, maybe in suggestion but here? reallyu?

[Æthlstan]

I recognize that quote

People game the game all the time. The old system allowed much more abuse. While you may have legitimately been entering a mission, others in the same exact situation were entering missions to avoid PvP. In fact, squadrons would have every group member get missions in a certain area so the squadron always had a nearby mission to jump into to avoid PvP. Since at the time enemies couldnt join missions, this was a problem.

I'll say again, next time, have a good look around before starting a mission, and remember, there is a 2 minute join timer.

Edited June 26, 2016 by Æthlstan