Module quality should have Diminishing returns to make the game more skill based:

[Yar Matey]

One of the things I have noticed about this game now that I am crafting master craft modules and have many exceptional and master-craft modules, is the large gap between basic and exceptional/master craft modules.  I think, to encourage more of a skill based pvp environment, modules should have diminishing returns based on crafting quality.

 

For example, the Marines module gives you 10% of crew as marines at basic and 50% at exceptional.  My proposal is to adjust the values to the following:

 

Basic:              15%

Common:         20%

Fine:                24%

Master-craft:    27%

Exceptional      29%

(percentage of crew are marines)

 

I would like to see all modules have similar diminishing returns as well,

 

Some examples: 

                       from basic to common:

Grog rations:  Attack: 0.1, 0.125, 0.135, 0.14

           Moral: 25, 30, 33, 35, 36

           Accuracy:  -0.1, -0.125, -0.135, -0.14, -0.145

 

Barricades firepower/melee bonus:  0.075, 0.09, 0.1, 0.11, 0.12

 

Copper Plating speed bonus:  1.3%, 1.6%, 1.75%, 1.95%, 2%

 

Sword Fighting Handbooks:  Defense/Attack: 0.03, 0.04, 0.045, 0.0475, 0.049

                                             Moral:                5, 7, 8, 9, 10

 

Rum Rations Reload time bonus:    3%, 3.75%, 4.25%, 4.75%, 5%

(same for powder Monkeys)

 

Extra Hammocks crew Bonus:  3%, 3.75%, 4.25%, 4.75%, 5%

 

The reasoning behind these diminishing returns is that, I don't want to see situations where a newer player who does not have access to higher quality modules loses to players he is outplaying because the modules the other players have are better quality simply because he has been playing the game longer.

Edited June 16, 2016 by Ultravis

[admin]

upgrades parameters are not final

 

we will rebalance everything after you see and help us test officer perks

[Anolytic]

There is skill in choosing the right upgrades and using them correctly, as well as balancing their drawbacks. And I love my golden upgrades. Still, I cannot deny that you are probably right.

[Vernon Merrill]

Agreed. While I like the heavy advantages, I'm not sure it's best for gameplay.

[Yar Matey]

upgrades parameters are not final

 

we will rebalance everything after you see and help us test officer perks

 

I just want to avoid situations where players decked out in all master-craft and exceptional upgrades will always defeat a player with the same ship that has all common upgrades he bought from port vendors.  There should be some of a gap to encourage progression, but with exceptional Marines, I have seen players get one shotted on a successful attack.  Seems a little bit too good IMO.

Edited June 16, 2016 by Ultravis

[Young]

No upgrades would be best but that would take away a large part of game play and crafting. As Admin says lets wait and see what the officer and crew patch does.

[Blackjack Morgan]

If you take an experienced player and pit him against a newer player, regardless of mod quality, the experienced player is going to win. I will put my money on an experienced player with NO mods versus a newer play with exceptional mods any day of the week. Not to mention anyone really can have access to exceptional mods either by joining a clan, increasing their crafting level, or buying them. You have half the people playing NA complaining about grinding features and the other half complaining that the grind isn't long enough. You never are going to make everyone happy.

 

What I will say is way too many people act like the reason they lose a fight is because they were in a smaller ship or that they only had MC mods or whatever other reason they come up with. While the truth of the matter is that you don't need the biggest ship or the best mods to be successful. What you need is practice, humility, a willingness to learn, and an acceptance that you might not win every fight you are in.....oh, and also to remember that you probably learn a whole heck of a lot more from a good fight where you might actually lose than from being in a gank group where you outnumbered someone 4v1 but you "won". 

[CaptVonGunn]

No upgrades would be best but that would take away a large part of game play and crafting. As Admin says lets wait and see what the officer and crew patch does.

 

 

True.. I think it would be so cool(but likely a nightmare to code) if a ship was built with ALL the upgrades installed already . Except for handbooks and Personal . It would make ships a lot more costly and time consuming to build.. But would be so much more like real life.  Plus have the upgrades all be semi random in quality like the AI we capture appear to be...

 

Rem,ember this is an Example .... just making up numbers

   Example.. You build a Live Oak Connie... You spend the 4 Notes for Gold... Then you spend additional  notes (4 each up to allowed max) for the installed upgrades) I would say 6 total....

                    You then get to pick the 6 up grades it will come with ALL of them not just some and teh rest are random....   

   What is Random is the Quality....

 

    Fine-Gold...   Maybe even adjust the % of each based on the Crafters skill... SO say a guy that can just now build a GOld Connie has a  50% chance of Blue,30 of Purple,20 Gold on the Upgrades.. While a level 50 crafter  is the Oppsite

 

  So you could end up with a ship that is  

 GOld Live Oak

         WIth Gold Planking and Reinforced Masts

                 Purple Speed, IMproved mag Access

                 Blue Optimized Rudder and Studding sails

 

    Or any combonation....

 

  Then allow 2-3 what we now call normal upgrades...  Plus whatever slots we will get for officers..  

 

 

  Every ship would be different

  Yes just an idea but what the heck this is teh Alpha:)

Edited June 17, 2016 by CaptVonGunn

[Bommel]

If you take an experienced player and pit him against a newer player, regardless of mod quality, the experienced player is going to win. I will put my money on an experienced player with NO mods versus a newer play with exceptional mods any day of the week. Not to mention anyone really can have access to exceptional mods either by joining a clan, increasing their crafting level, or buying them. You have half the people playing NA complaining about grinding features and the other half complaining that the grind isn't long enough. You never are going to make everyone happy.

 

What I will say is way too many people act like the reason they lose a fight is because they were in a smaller ship or that they only had MC mods or whatever other reason they come up with. While the truth of the matter is that you don't need the biggest ship or the best mods to be successful. What you need is practice, humility, a willingness to learn, and an acceptance that you might not win every fight you are in.....oh, and also to remember that you probably learn a whole heck of a lot more from a good fight where you might actually lose than from being in a gank group where you outnumbered someone 4v1 but you "won". 

Of course a bad player won´t magically be a good player only by using upgrades, but if two players of equal quality fight eachother and one has a grey ship and the other guy an exceptional 3/5 speed with all gold mods, the guy with the gold ship will have a way higher chance to win the battle.

 

And no, you can´t simply buy all the upgrades you want since there is not enough supply of the drop-only upgrades.

[Blackjack Morgan]

Of course a bad player won´t magically be a good player only by using upgrades, but if two players of equal quality fight eachother and one has a grey ship and the other guy an exceptional 3/5 speed with all gold mods, the guy with the gold ship will have a way higher chance to win the battle.

 

And no, you can´t simply buy all the upgrades you want since there is not enough supply of the drop-only upgrades.

 

The argument of the drop only upgrades and if they should remain drop only or become craft able is a completely separate discussion. One that I think should be openly discussed, but I really don't think it has anything to do with what we are discussing here.  Yes, I do agree that the guy that has spent a major financial and/or time investment in his gold ship and exceptional mods will have an advantage over his equally skilled opponent who spent relatively nothing on his grey ship. However, I don't see what the problem is here. The only thing that should matter is if there is equal access to those exceptional ships....and the answer to that is yes. If you choose not to make the financial/time investment in one that is your choice and you are rewarded by saving the money/time that you otherwise would have spent.

 

If you want to have a purely "even" match with same basic ships then go to the duel room. Otherwise you are going to get some differences between ships when they fight and that's a good thing. One might be live oak and the other fir....one might be rigged for speed and the other more of a tank. These differences result in fights that offer different tactics and counters then what you get with everyone being the same. I'm completely on board if we want to have the discussion about mods stacking or specific mods being "too good" or others being relatively worthless but to make them arbitrary or do away with them all together seems like a mistake. Most people enjoy the ability to tweak ships to better suit a role or play toward the strengths of their play-style.....having options to personalize our ships is a good thing not a bad thing.

[Bommel]

I never said I want a purely even match with same basic ships.

This topic is about "...to make the game more skill based", and upgrades as they exist now are not favoring skill based gameplay.

And the non-craftable upgrades are a part of the game right now and you can´t exclude this from this discussion about upgrades and how they affect the gameplay. And I also didn´t start an argument about whether those upgrades should remain drop-only.

 

I do like the idea of having upgrades but they shouldn´t have too much impact on the ships.

I´d rather see more variety in actual ships instead of a game where "hidden" gear has a great effect on the "performance" of ships.