Teleporting/sending ships or sailing?

[B4N4N4J0E]

With the announcement of the crew management changes this discussion came up because the devs think about disabling ship-teleports.

Different opinions on that issue came up, so I thought it would be interresting to see what is favoured.

 

Therefore I made this poll.

 

Edit: And pls post your opinion/arguments if you want and how the poll can be improved!

 

Edit2:

 

Understand the answers in question 2 like that:

 

Answer1: No cost, no risk, no time.

Answer2: Some costs, maybe some restrictions, no risk

Answer3: Some costs & risk

Answer4: Sailing yourself!

Edited June 8, 2016 by B4N4N4J0E

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

You missed the most vital "level gameplay" option. I can't believe it was on purpose.

 

- Make it equal to Cargo Delivery - Pay & Deliver to Free Port.

[B4N4N4J0E]

You missed the most vital "level gameplay" option. I can't believe it was on purpose.

 

- Make it equal to Cargo Delivery - Pay & Deliver to Free Port.

Edited the poll.

I think this belongs to answer 2.

With some sort of cost in money and time.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

It is a nice poll but cannot vote as the answer 2 is too vague.

I will vote for a Delivery system to Free Ports.

[B4N4N4J0E]

It is a nice poll but cannot vote as the answer 2 is too vague.

I will vote for a Delivery system to Free Ports.

 

Question 2 should be more accurate, you are right.

My intention was not to get a result on how the system should exactly be but to see what numbers of the fundemental positions are.

 

Answer 2 could be splited in various systems for example: delivery to free ports, delivery to all ports... does it take time until the ship arrives, has it a cooldown...does this cost you crewmembers?

 

Answer1: is clear. No cost, no risk, no time.

Answer2: Some costs, some restrictions... No risk

Answer3: Some costs & risk

Answer4: You will have to do a lot of sailing! ;-)

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Yes. There are fundamental game differences between Outpost and Free Port. And that makes the choice and mechanics completely different.

[B4N4N4J0E]

Yes. There are fundamental game differences between Outpost and Free Port. And that makes the choice and mechanics completely different.

 

You are totally right.

Freeports only vs. every port makes a huge difference.

 

But I didn't want to open up this discussion now. This decision has to be made when option 2 or 3 is in favour or maybe even to tweak answer 1.

 

I think the decision on the topic should be made like:

1. Sailing vs. Sending. --> If it is sailing, the decision ends here.

2. Risk (over OW) vs. No risk --> If it is decided for risk, the rest is of minor importance.

3. Costs & Restrictions --> Final decision.

 

So if one is for sailing but the great majority says No, he (or she) might be rather for the risk option in question 2.

If one is for the risk but majority says no risk, he (or she) might rather speak for higher costs, stronger restrictions (like free ports only),

 

Btw.: I personally prefer "only free ports", too. 

[Lytse Pier]

I would choose the regional capitals over the freeports to make it make ports actually worth fighting over with our first rates.

I don't think the teleports detract from the submersive experience of sailing. You still have to sail to move goods and get into PVP or a mission.

More teleporting does not mean less sailing, I think it will do the opposite and will create more ships on the seas. The sailing will be done in a more dynamic fashion across the map and more in ships that make sense and not a fast taxi cutter to get from ship to ship that makes no sense.

All depends also on how the devs will scale the economy and risk versus reward systems. Less time necessary to reach your goals/targets or actually having to sail every ship to your outposts will definitely have great impact on economical and strategic gameplay.

Edited June 8, 2016 by Lytse Pier

[Uilleam]

I would allow the ship to be sent to an outpost but not a Freeport (of a Freeport with an outpost).

Freeport's are safe from capture.

Freeport's can send materials to other freeports

Since freeports can't be captured, they allow enemy ships a refuge from which to attack freindly ships. Since they can't be captured you always have the risk of being attacked in what would otherwise be a rear area. Since you can send materials between freeports, they already have a special function. Removing the send option for a Freeport balances things better. However, if sending ships now means the ship sails on the ow, then it will be possible to keep some ships from arriving at the Freeport.

Should ship repairs be allowed, or should repair kits only be allowed to be used in a Freeport? My thinking is a Freeport is a port where all nations have agreed to be a noncombatant port, but repairing war ships would be a combatants activity...so, maybe only traders can repair there?

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Well one needs an outpost in a free port to send anything there. You can't have an outpost at every single free port.

 

Some freeports are really far from anywhere and they are already used as forward bases.

 

Maybe what you are looking for is Naval Base, basically a special Outpost slot.

[Crayon]

Having to create a shipyard in every port where I want to have a ship is rediculous. For example, I have a ship in Tortue and go cap a trader so that I may send it to Tordo. I dont like crafting, so I'd have to sail to tordo or buy one from there (not likely) just so I can fight pirates there. I shouldn't have to sail 2.5 hours to fight pirates because I wont be able to craft a ship there, besides the point I might not have an open building slot. . SO... if I want to fight pirates around Tordo and have no ships there, I'd have to put in an obscene amount of travel time, AGAIN? 

 

I'm sorry, but this sounds to me like a nail in the coffin. It does not sound fun, it does not sound creative. Just more damn grind.

Edited June 8, 2016 by Crayon

[Tiedemann]

If I can't TP ships and be where it happens when it happens in the ship I want, it's no point in playing this game. It is that simple. 

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Two hours and a half is from Key West to Plymouth with a Navy Brig.

[Fastidius]

encourage battles  get the ships there and let them fight

[mikawa]

Pretty much of what we discuss here is sheer guesswork.

 

There is the faction which says that ships should always sail over OW because then they can be captured and it improves PVP.

I say that simply isn't true. Yesterday I sailed 2 hours (from Kingston to Tiburon, then up to Sant Lago, Guama Sevilla and back to Port Morant). All over there were enemy ports neraby. I failed to see *any* enemy ship, execpt some AI traders or fleets. So the game experience and the occasions of PVP always depend on the density of population on the servers.

 

The game should avoid to make additional time sinks. Sailing over half an hour just to bring a ship to another coast is okay, when it is done once or twice. But not in general. I like the system of sending (or better teleporting) ships without cargo to outposts and that you have always to care for cargo related travels.

 

I say, that teleporting ships encourages PVP far more (lets be where the action is) than boring travel over OW.

[B4N4N4J0E]

I think, it's like the polls say so far (47 votes) that over 90% of the players do not want to sail every time the want to move a ship somewhere.

This is my opinion, too.

 

I do a lot of trading and transportation.

I use traders as one-way vehicles. It takes very long to sail the full cargo ships to their destination, I have no desire to sail the empty traders back almost every time...

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Neither do I. But...

 

I am already disciplining myself. I attack the trader and plunder what I can fit in my hold.

 

I wish, sometimes, I could give the ship and leftover cargo back to the player still in battle though.

[Jean Ribault]

I think, it's like the polls say so far (47 votes) that over 90% of the players do not want to sail every time the want to move a ship somewhere.

This is my opinion, too.

 

I do a lot of trading and transportation.

I use traders as one-way vehicles. It takes very long to sail the full cargo ships to their destination, I have no desire to sail the empty traders back almost every time...

 

 

If you wish to maximize your hull's haul (<-- see what I did there? ), then you're going to want a bigger trade vessel, i.e. LGV or Indiaman if it's a long trip.  But if you are going to repeat the trip without sailing back, i.e. you sell the ship at the destination port, then you need to either buy or capture several of them for the originating port.  I've found that capturing, while yes it is rewarding, is more of a chore than sailing back to that originating port.  Plus sailing the trader back you also get some minor gratuitous XP.  If I knew that the originating port had 6 LGV's for sale, then I would sell the ship at the destination port, go back to the originating port the easiest way possible, then buy a new LGV at a small overall loss in ship costs.  It rarely works out that nicely.  So at the end of the day, I think sailing back to the originating port works best in most cases, at least for me.

Edited June 9, 2016 by Jean Ribault

[B4N4N4J0E]

If you wish to maximize your hull's haul (<-- see what I did there? ), then you're going to want a bigger trade vessel, i.e. LGV or Indiaman if it's a long trip.  But if you are going to repeat the trip without sailing back, i.e. you sell the ship at the destination port, then you need to either buy or capture several of them for the originating port.  I've found that capturing, while yes it is rewarding, is more of a chore than sailing back to that originating port.  Plus sailing the trader back you also get some minor gratuitous XP.  If I knew that the originating port had 6 LGV's for sale, then I would sell the ship at the destination port, go back to the originating port the easiest way possible, then buy a new LGV at a small overall loss in ship costs.  It rarely works out that nicely.  So at the end of the day, I think sailing back to the originating port works best in most cases, at least for me.

As some of my supply outposts are sw I need traders snows. Capping one is done in max. 5 min. +cargo +some ship parts from breaking it up...

[Jean Ribault]

Trader snow doesn't hold enough for a regular trader player IMO.  They're best for gathering resources to your main origin ports of trade.  Use the larger vessels for the income runs.  If you're using brigs or snows to do the heavy work, then yeah I can see why you're tired of sailing them back.  Should also mention though don't forget you can TP your ship back to capital after you dump the load, if it saves you some time in the return run.  2-minute wait for the TP, but that's a great time to refill your iced tea and grab the chips.

Edited June 9, 2016 by Jean Ribault

[Skully]

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/14416-crew-management-update-discussion/page-13#entry268614

[Anne Wildcat]

I'd be fine with adding captured ships to fleet & sailing them back. What would be nice is keeping the ability to tp brand new, crafted, ships to outposts. Otherwise when/if the crew management gets implemented, I'm going to have to build shipyards in free towns in enemy territories.

[KrakkenSmacken]

  I've found that capturing, while yes it is rewarding, is more of a chore than sailing back to that originating port.  

I have found the opposite.

 

If you know what you are doing, and take a few moments to plan the battle entry, you can use a le Gros Ventre to catch a Traders brig in under 10 minutes, including the boarding action.

 

Finding those on OW takes almost no time.

[Jean Ribault]

I have found the opposite.

 

If you know what you are doing, and take a few moments to plan the battle entry, you can use a le Gros Ventre to catch a Traders brig in under 10 minutes, including the boarding action.

 

Finding those on OW takes almost no time.

 

 

I thiink you just made my point for me.  It is because I plan ahead that it is easier to sail the trader most of the time.  I don't just go from point A to point B then back to A, B, A, B, A....ad infinitum.  I have several types of goods that I trade all at once, and I plan all my routes - and times for that matter - meticulously.  It is because of that planning that most of the time I just continue to sail it.  However, when my route is convenient with respect to my outposts, then I agree with you and take a brig, TP my LGV back to point A if it's an outpost or close if it's not, sail to close outpost and TP / short travel back to my LGV for the next run.  Planning, you made my point.

 

But it doesn't always work out the same unless you always use the same 2 ports and nothing else, then it's whatever fits the bill.

 

LOL, I guess we agree and disagree all at once, but it is definitely situational strategy when trading.

Edited June 10, 2016 by Jean Ribault

[KrakkenSmacken]

I thiink you just made my point for me.  It is because I plan ahead that it is easier to sail the trader most of the time.  I don't just go from point A to point B then back to A, B, A, B, A....ad infinitum.  I have several types of goods that I trade all at once, and I plan all my routes - and times for that matter - meticulously.  It is because of that planning that most of the time I just continue to sail it.  However, when my route is convenient with respect to my outposts, then I agree with you and take a brig, TP my LGV back to point A if it's an outpost or close if it's not, sail to close outpost and TP / short travel back to my LGV for the next run.  Planning, you made my point.

 

But it doesn't always work out the same unless you always use the same 2 ports and nothing else, then it's whatever fits the bill.

 

LOL, I guess we agree and disagree all at once, but it is definitely situational strategy when trading.

 

 

I wouldn't say it's a disagreement, its more a style choice.

 

I'm a nasty pirate, that spends his time hunting traders. I have several outposts I jump around to and find targets, send the empty ships to the closest Free port to my capital, and the goods I either sell for $$ if its a money commodity, or ship via the delivery system to the same Free port I send the boats to.

 

I don't waste time keeping the captured boats around. They get one trip to the capital, then it's off to the scrap yards for them.  

 

I break up rather than sell so I can keep the commodity hours. Far more valuable that a the gold.

 

So that whole trade route thing, is a style I just don't use.