Rattlesnake Love Thread

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Interesting.

 

Pretty much as fast as my Oak, Rigging and Speed build mounting Carronades and the long fours as chasers.

 

It is a interdiction brig-sloop and in no way is the Trinc better except being a heavy frigate so it is a personal preference, so comparing onions with cabbages.

 

Despite all the lightness and handling the mainstay heavy transporter, the Les Gros Ventre, still manages to have a timely turn in a tighter course. Not that is bad that the Snake has it wider by a mere half ship but becomes slightly tricky when facing a well versed trader captain. Read this with a handful of salt as not every battle is the same and so far has been a 50/50 case.

 

It is a great raider ship and certainly fills the gap between the lynx/privateer and the full brigs.

[Ronald Speirs]

I would like to see more of these little ships roaming around, would make battling in the bahamas quite a sight to see, a really beautiful looking ship and handles quite well, here to many more in the future making it into the game.

[Guest]

I'm just wondering why she is called Rattlesnake in game. As per the description the original Rattlesnake in American Service was fitted with 20 guns. As she was captured by the British she was renamed into HMS Cormorant and fitted with 18 guns. Being this the case she should be renamed in HMS Cormorant in game.

 

 

 

History

The rattlesnake is a 20 gun sloop of war which was designed by John Peck of Boston and built at Plymouth, Massachusetts in 1780. She was commissioned in 12th of June 1781. In american service she had a crew of 85 men and 20 guns. On her first crew she had barely been at sea when she met the british ship Assurance of 44 guns. The British captured her and sent her to new york. On 28 July 1781 she was purchased into British service as the sloop HMS Cormorant. She was armed with 18 guns in British service and 120 men.

http://navalaction.wikia.com/wiki/Rattlesnake

 

[LeBoiteux]

It is a great raider ship and certainly fills the gap between the lynx/privateer and the full brigs.

 

I think her place is more between the Brig/Navy Brig and the Mercury/Niagara, that is quite logical as sloop-of-war/corvettes are meant to compete with Brigs. The Rattlesnake can easily compete with both the Navy Brig and the Mercury.

[Diceman]

Does the Rattlesnake get the Pagan Pete stamp of approval???

[jodgi]

Just did a speed profile of a vanilla oak snake with longs in the speeds discussion.

[surfimp]

I capped my first player trader using the Rattlesnake last night off KPR... wow, what a difference being able to sail fast downwind makes.

I added green hammocks which, combined with the yellow crew space inbuilt upgrade, has my crew up to (IIRC) 132 now. As soon as I get to level 25 crafting I'm going to replace with blue :-)

Now to track down some better Marines....

[Smithy]

I have crew space and blue hammocks at the moment. am at 136 crew. stupidly lost to an AI LGV last night so only 4 dura on my prized rattle 264 crew was too stronnkkk for the snake xD

Edited May 27, 2016 by Smithy

[MikeCK]

Found the attached picture. It is a "cutaway" model of the USS Rattlesnake

http://www.shipmodel.com/files/ship-model-rattlesnake-detail.jpg

[Haratik]

I'm just wondering why she is called Rattlesnake in game. As per the description the original Rattlesnake in American Service was fitted with 20 guns. As she was captured by the British she was renamed into HMS Cormorant and fitted with 18 guns. Being this the case she should be renamed in HMS Cormorant in game.

 

 

She was actually renamed HMS Rattlesnake in 1783.  

[MikeCK]

Correct. Apparently the British Navy did not realize they had another ship in service called the "Cormorant". So they switched her back to "Rattlesnake". In reality, the ship was more expensive to maintain than similar sized British Sloops and less armed...so she was retired in short order. Really a....less than glorious career.

[McFatts]

We love it so much we put it in our forum signature.

 

Our clan regularly runs rattler gangs of 8+ rattlers.  You can take on anything really, and it is one hell of a good time.

Edited September 8, 2016 by McFatts

[MikeCK]

Yeah. I love mine. I just started so I'm only a 2nd LT but I was able to find an "Exceptional" fir Rattlesnake with improved rigging. I use upgrades to help with speed. So she's fast. If I see it, I can catch it or run from in. If I fight it and am losing, I can get away. I actually prefer 6lb medium cannons to carronades. The speed allows me to stern-camp but not close enough for carronades.

I may try out a Surpise but if possible, I will keep the Rattlesnake.

Another view of the model

[IndianaGeoff]

I'm just wondering why she is called Rattlesnake in game. As per the description the original Rattlesnake in American Service was fitted with 20 guns. As she was captured by the British she was renamed into HMS Cormorant and fitted with 18 guns. Being this the case she should be renamed in HMS Cormorant in game.

 

Because lots of Americans will buy the game, there were no American First Rates so the USA will get the Rattler and Connie to "call it's own".  I am sure there will be an Italian ship and a german ship at some point, even if history has to be stretched a bit.

[MikeCK]

Well it's not really a stretch. The British noted upon capturing the Rattlesnake that she was armed with 18 6lbs-ers. Seems likely that the Ratt could not fire chasers while the foremost broadside cannons were there...not enough room. So THAT is a stretch, but the 20 6lbs cannons seems quite realistic. The British actually later fitted her with 18 4lbs cannons and then later with 14 4lbs. The British felt that the French and Americans "over-gun" their ships...but gunned with 20 6lb cannons she was nonetheless:

From: "American War of Independence at sea"

http://www.awiatsea.com/Privateers/R/Rattlesnake%20Massachusetts%20Ship%20[Clark].html#T000003B

"Rattlesnake was commissioned on 12 June 1781 under Commander Mark Clark, possibly from Salem, Massachusetts. She was listed as having a battery of twenty guns and a crew of eighty-five men"

". Rattlesnake was captured and sent into New York, arriving on the evening of 8 July 1781. The British reported her as armed with twenty guns,5 probably 6-pounders."( citing to 5 The Royal Georgia Gazette [savannah], Tuesday, August 30, 1781, datelined New York, July 4, 1781)

She was commissioned the HMS Cormorant with 14 guns. As the British admiralty later found there was already an HMS Cormorant, she was redesignated the HMS Rattlesnake

Edited September 9, 2016 by MikeCK

[akd]

There is a citation for number of guns, but the poundage appears to be author's own speculation, otherwise the footnote would be at the end of the sentence.

[MikeCK]

Correct. But it is the only authority I have seen and I have not seen anything to the contrary.

[MikeCK]

There is this as well. No citation however. We may never know for sure but there is no reason to think she DIDNT carry 6lb guns. Everything I have seen suggests she did. Devs had to put SOME weight of cannon and likey relied on the only info available

http://www.streport.com/files/rsnake1.htm

"...She carried up to 20 guns (probably 6 or 9 lbs)"

Edited September 9, 2016 by MikeCK

[maturin]

Unsourced speculation does not count as information. It is worth exactly nothing.

 

So given those two sources (which are not 'authorities'), we are left with a 50/50 toss-up on whether she mounted 6-pdrs or plastic water pistols.

 

However, we also know via primary source that the British chose to mount 4-pdrs with an unusually short barrel length. This suggests that even 4-pdrs were borderline in terms of weight and dimensions.

 

Furthermore, we know that Rattlesnake is narrow. Her beam is only 17.3 feet. That is narrower than every other ship in the game (besides the gunboat). I shit you not. She is narrower than Lynx and the Cutter by over a fathom. She is narrow with a shallow draft and low freeboard. That means minimal stability. And we are to believe that she could carry an armament twice as heavy as the game other's light vessels?

 

 

If you want to sterncamp and gank with 6-pdrs, I don't blame you. But it has nothing to do with history.

 

 

Edit: The two fine sources we have disagree considerably on her beam. She's still narrower than Lynx and the Cutter, though. And remember that the real Lynx was much wider than the in-game version, and probably never carried anything but carronades.

[Haratik]

Because lots of Americans will buy the game, there were no American First Rates so the USA will get the Rattler and Connie to "call it's own".  I am sure there will be an Italian ship and a german ship at some point, even if history has to be stretched a bit.

 

There was an American first rate, but it's been considered out of the timeline.  I'm certain US players will get a third or second rate at some point, just not anytime soon.

Also, there was no Italy or Germany back then, but there is a ship of Germanic background either in consideration for development or being developed.  Furthermore, while there wasn't an Italy* back then, there were any number of smaller kingdoms across the Italian peninsula, and offshore islands, that maintained strong navies, of which plans still exist.  Go to the shipyard and educate yourself please!  

 

Unsourced speculation does not count as information. It is worth exactly nothing.

 

So given those two sources (which are not 'authorities'), we are left with a 50/50 toss-up on whether she mounted 6-pdrs or plastic water pistols.

 

However, we also know via primary source that the British chose to mount 4-pdrs with an unusually short barrel length. This suggests that even 4-pdrs were borderline in terms of weight and dimensions.

 

Furthermore, we know that Rattlesnake is narrow. Her beam is only 17.3 feet. That is narrower than every other ship in the game (besides the gunboat). I shit you not. She is narrower than Lynx and the Cutter by over a fathom. She is narrow with a shallow draft and low freeboard. That means minimal stability. And we are to believe that she could carry an armament twice as heavy as the game other's light vessels?

 

 

If you want to sterncamp and gank with 6-pdrs, I don't blame you. But it has nothing to do with history.

 

 

Edit: The two fine sources we have disagree considerably on her beam. She's still narrower than Lynx and the Cutter, though. And remember that the real Lynx was much wider than the in-game version, and probably never carried anything but carronades.

 

Speculation is the same as assumption, no?  Is it that much of a stretch to think that maybe, just maybe, they tried to over-arm the Rattlesnake?  None of us were there, and while yes, it is safe to assume that she was incapable of mounting any more than 4lb guns, other ships in possession of both the Continental and the United States Navy have proven that there is a basis to believe that she was armed with larger guns than she should have been mounted with.

* Not to be confused with the short lived Kingdom of Italy established by Napoleon

Edited September 13, 2016 by Haratik

[Billy Budd]

I have two of these ships, which I use for capturing AI Traders. They are fast and run against the wind better than any other ship in its class. They will easily keep pace with Snows and Briggs. they could even be a match for a Le Gross Ventre, but I haven't challenged one of these yet. I have two, so that I can place them at different outpost, which are at different places on the map. I love the Rattlesnake.

[_Masterviolin]

This post has inspired me to invest in crafting my own Rattlesnake. Seems like a hell of a lot of fun. I left the SLRN to go and be a "lone wolf" anyhow, and the Rattlesnake seems like the divine hunting vessel.

[IndianaGeoff]

There was an American first rate, but it's been considered out of the timeline.  I'm certain US players will get a third or second rate at some point, just not anytime soon.

Also, there was no Italy or Germany back then, but there is a ship of Germanic background either in consideration for development or being developed.  Furthermore, while there wasn't an Italy* back then, there were any number of smaller kingdoms across the Italian peninsula, and offshore islands, that maintained strong navies, of which plans still exist.  Go to the shipyard and educate yourself please!  

 

Thanks for restating what I said.

[Haratik]

Thanks for restating what I said.

Not restating, merely clarifying. My point still stands.

[surfimp]

Dear @admin,

My life in Naval Action is a little empty without my beloved Rattlesnake. Please tell me my sweet girl is coming home soon!

Sincerely,
Pretty much everyone