Question about racism and roleplaying

[Tyrant]

Are we allowing open racist slurs under the context of role playing the time period?

 

Nation chat was alight with open racism under the pretense of "slave trading".

 

I said:

 

"wow, right click report"

 

To which, of course, I was met with open hostility and more racial slurs because the players were simply "role playing".

 

Is that what we are doing now?

[Tyrant]

I am asking because I am genuinely curious.  I could very well be wrong.  I mean, I am not one to climb the social justice ladder or anything... but it is 2016.

 

Certain hate speech just doesn't have a place anymore.  

 

Seems like a toxic thing to allow, but if the admins are cool with it, then I will leave it alone. I know that, if I get my little feelings hurt, I can always put people on the ignore list and move on with life.  So I don't want to make a fuss reporting people if their behavior and speech is deemed "appropriate"

[OlavDeng2]

Well according to the rules racism is not allowed:

 

3. Personal attacks, racism and discrimination are prohibited

Personal attacks are posts that insult another forum user directly or discuss user’s personal life or situation. Posts that include race, religion or sexual preference based personal attacks and trolling can result in immediate suspension. Such behavior will not be tolerated.

 

It is entirely possible that a moderator was not online or they missed it, just report it and move on.

[vonKrimm]

Are we allowing open racist slurs under the context of role playing the time period?

 

Nation chat was alight with open racism under the pretense of "slave trading".

 

I said:

 

"wow, right click report" your added commentary was un-needed; just "report" and move along.

 

To which, of course, I was met with open hostility and more racial slurs because the players were simply "role playing".

 

Is that what we are doing now?

 

 

I am asking because I am genuinely curious.  I could very well be wrong.  I mean, I am not one to climb the social justice ladder or anything... but it is 2016.

 

Certain hate speech just doesn't have a place anymore.  

 

Seems like a toxic thing to allow, but if the admins are cool with it, then I will leave it alone. I know that, if I get my little feelings hurt, I can always put people on the ignore list and move on with life.  So I don't want to make a fuss reporting people if their behavior and speech is deemed "appropriate"  i agree, that is what you should have done.

 

need a separate item on the "report" function to report & auto ignore those that do the "look at what i can do!" shtick.  seriously, telling ppl you are reporting them is only done by those that have some need to be publicly acknowledge for exercising common sense and making a post to your own topic after just 5 minutes adds credence to my take on the matter.

 

as for the crux of this particular thread: moderator answered it perfectly.  TY Olav.

[Tyrant]

need a separate item on the "report" function to report & auto ignore those that do the "look at what i can do!" shtick.  seriously, telling ppl you are reporting them is only done by those that have some need to be publicly acknowledge for exercising common sense and making a post to your own topic after just 5 minutes adds credence to my take on the matter.

 

as for the crux of this particular thread: moderator answered it perfectly.  TY Olav.

 

First, many people are new to this game and do not know how to report, or that it is even an available option.   Not one thing in the game explains the reporting mechanic.  So the comment was to help other players learn how to use the function.

 

Second, my post is actually a question, because there was a chance that I was in the wrong and I wanted clarification.  Instead of riding my moral high horse, I like to keep an open mind and consider that I am the one being offensive.

 

Thanks for being a total jerk about it!

[Ellaface]

First, many people are new to this game and do not know how to report, or that it is even an available option.   Not one thing in the game explains the reporting mechanic.  So the comment was to help other players learn how to use the function.

 

Second, my post is actually a question, because there was a chance that I was in the wrong and I wanted clarification.  Instead of riding my moral high horse, I like to keep an open mind and consider that I am the one being offensive.

 

Thanks for being a total jerk about it!

 

Nothing wrong with having a sense of morality in the age we live in, had i have found myself in the situation you were presented with, id have probably done the same

[Johny Reb]

It would be better if we could see the conversation of those you reported.

 

I for one am tired of the PC no backbone types that get over offended at every little slight. For instance, calling the French Frogs or the Spanish Dons or even talking about the slave trade in general.

 

I am concerned about personal attacks though, and those that are trying to stir up trouble and go out of the way to get under people's skin. Personal attacks should be, by all means reported, but If someone says, "I'm gonna make a run to pick up some slaves for my plantation," and you want to report them for that then I would say grow up and become a man.

[Arvenski]

I agree with Johny Reb in that some context is needed. I've known at least one online community where people who get along quite well aren't afraid to playfully go calling each other all sorts of words which I probably shouldn't post here (since swearing is discouraged on this forum), but when they do so, no serious offence is meant or (usually) taken. It could be that this was a similar situation, and the folks involved were friends or clanmates who were just derping around a bit. On the other hand, if it was random strangers calling each other, for instance, the N-word, even in sort-of-roleplaying context, I'd say that's something that's only going to encourage nation chats to become more toxic, and the game doesn't need that.  

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

Slavery and roleplaying of slavery is not allowed.  Please report those who are doing this.

 

Thank you.

[RockApe]

I see no need for any bigotry at all, and as slavery is NOT modelled in the game , even if it is historically correct, there is no need for racial slurs, calling the French crapauds or the Spanish Dons, isn't really the same thing, any more than the Americans calling the Brits Limeys is, or the French calling us Godammes , however some name calling is utterly reprehensible, and totally unacceptable, and cant be tolerated at all, especially when it doesn't even apply to the game in the first place. Thye name calling I have given as an example was in common parlance at the time, and was used most of the time as a sort of strange respect, and wasn't really meant as an insult at all. but any colour predjudice is not acceptable, in any shape or form, if those are your bigoted views, then keep 'em to your pathetic self, and yeah report it !!

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

The fine line between RP and being offensive is easily spotted.

 

Anyone trying to play a character and that actually plays by RP will try NOT TO circumvent rules and bring "trivialities", which add nothing to a character build, to the table such as racism and most especially slavery.

 

It is not a question of right or wrong as it is a matter of RESPECT.

[Capt Hornblower]

Nothing wrong with having a sense of morality in the age we live in, had i have found myself in the situation you were presented with, id have probably done the same

 I suspect there're many who agree with you, I being one of them, but also those who don't. I guess the best that can be done is bring it to the mods attention, there being things said that have no place here/ingame

[Inkompetent]

Also, it has to be presumed due to Naval Action's design and playerbase, that the default context for any post is never ever "roleplaying". I am sure that many do roleplay, but they cannot ever expect anyone else to understand that they are, and roleplaying has to be consensual. Both parties need to agree that they are roleplaying and that all which is said is in that context.

Failure to reach consensual agreement about it means that at least one party is "out of character", and as such what is said is said to/by the player as a person.

Heck, even if it is agreed upon by all involved parties that it is roleplaying the boundaries of the roleplaying also need to be established. What kind of stuff is it okay to roleplay about in that company? Where goes the line between offensive and acceptable content? Game-Labs themselves are pretty clear on where the final limit is though, as it is established in the game's rules.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Yes Inkompetent. But any person intelligent enough to use such a delicate machine running such a demanding piece of software is bright enough not to be a jackbackside and perfectly understands where the boundary lies.

[Tyrant]

It would be better if we could see the conversation of those you reported.

I for one am tired of the PC no backbone types that get over offended at every little slight. For instance, calling the French Frogs or the Spanish Dons or even talking about the slave trade in general.

I am concerned about personal attacks though, and those that are trying to stir up trouble and go out of the way to get under people's skin. Personal attacks should be, by all means reported, but If someone says, "I'm gonna make a run to pick up some slaves for my plantation," and you want to report them for that then I would say grow up and become a man.

In nation chat, to nobody in particular, something along the lines of....

"where are all the N______s? I want to buy some N______s."

"If you all don't tell me where I can find N_____s for sale then I'm going to....."

And so on...

My feelings were not hurt, I don't get upset about what people say online, but it did seem over the top to me. So, I reported and gave anyone else who might've wanted to the introductions on how to accomplish it. Then it got a anti Semitic

As far as mentioning it in the game... Other people need to know how to report and players telling them "right click, report" is the only way they are going to get the instructions.

Bringing it to the forums is to satisfy my own curiosity. I don't have much experience with role play and nobody else was speaking other than the three people who were all being slanderous.

Like I said, they could be right and I could be wrong. So I wanted to know from the developer/admin perspective.

[Tyrant]

So, Johnny Reb, I guess I just don't know where this community stands on that stuff...

Do I need to grow (edit:up) and be a man?

Edited May 23, 2016 by Tyrant

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

So, Johnny Reb, I guess I just don't know where this community stands on that stuff...

Do I need to grow (edit:up) and be a man?

 

No. The use of the N word is absolutely prohibited in the game in any context.

 

Usage of period "names" for nationalities is generally seen as ok.  There's a difference between making fun of a nationality and making fun of someone based on the color of their skin, their gender, etc.  While both were done during that period, we do need to place limits for everyone's enjoyment - the limit currently is set that making fun of a character's nationality is ok (within reason), making fun of their gender, skin color, sexual orientation, etc. is not.

[Jean Ribault]

Can anyone also comment on the rules of vulgarity in the in-game chat?  This could be a separate post, but goes hand in hand with what is allowed in-game as discussed above.  Do the chat rules have a separate fule from the forum rules, copied below? :

 

5. Profanity/Cursing.

A well timed curse can lighten up a conversation in combat, but use of profanity directed at other players is prohibited. This includes the partial masking of letters using numbers or alternate symbols, and any attempts at bypassing the profanity filter. Use of profanity is discouraged on forums.

 

Within about 30 minutes yesterday I read from a group of a few in global chat multiple uses of F*, fag, p*, amongst many other vulgar remarks with no mistaking of meaning and zero restraint.  It was fluent, nothing like the "well timed curse" described above.  I did not report this offensive chat because I don't know if it was against the chat rules - I could not find any explicit thread/post regarding chat rules.  At least one other person responded negatively to it in the chat.  Is there an age limit or rating on this game?  I don't see one on the Steam website.  So teens or younger are exposed to this vulgarity?

 

I am not sensitive but this was over the top, and I'd like to know what applies for future reference.

 

Please explain or point to the chat rules, or post them in a conspicuous manner.  I thoroughly apologize if I missed a chat rule posting, but I could not find one on this forum.  The response above from Admin to the OP is quoting forum rules, not chat.  Both the title and many of those rules specifically call out forum actions.  Should we infer they are exactly the same as chat?

 

 

Edit: I have no wish at all to silence language in the chats, that's just boring - but rather to know where the line is drawn for unrestrained and unnecessary vulgarity, if there is one.

Edited May 23, 2016 by Jean Ribault

[Balsafer]

Over use of F bombs or other foul language is not a allowed is from what i understand.  Most of us are adults we should act like it.

[Johny Reb]

So, Johnny Reb, I guess I just don't know where this community stands on that stuff...

Do I need to grow (edit:up) and be a man?

No, of course not Tyrant. In that context I would most definitely agree that this example was one that was over the top.

 

I guess what I was implying was that the mention of slavery doesn't equal racism or disrespect. Saying something like, "I'm gonna put you back in chains black man." definitely would be. But their is an old adage that I learned as a child that most adults seem to have forgotten over the years. "Sticks and stones will break my bones but words will never hurt me." Its sad that children are smarter than some adults.

[Arvenski]

Is there an age limit or rating on this game?  I don't see one on the Steam website.  So teens or younger are exposed to this vulgarity?

A bit off-topic, I know, but do you really think anybody who's been around online gaming for any length of time hasn't seen all sorts of cursing before? I mean, not that I'm condoning excessive swearing, but I don't think the "think of the children" argument holds up in this case. Anyone who's been played a multiplayer game for more than 5 minutes or who's hung around a gaming forum much will have heard/read it all before, and will hear/read plenty more of it as time goes on. It's just everywhere. 

[Jean Ribault]

A bit off-topic, I know, but do you really think anybody who's been around online gaming for any length of time hasn't seen all sorts of cursing before? I mean, not that I'm condoning excessive swearing, but I don't think the "think of the children" argument holds up in this case. Anyone who's been played a multiplayer game for more than 5 minutes or who's hung around a gaming forum much will have heard/read it all before, and will hear/read plenty more of it as time goes on. It's just everywhere. 

 

 

Perhaps you don't have children?  Yeah they see it, does that make it good or should that be the standard then because it happens?  I see it too, but there's a degree of restraint required when you are in "public".

 

Moderators, how about an answer?  I would like one.