Maxus Posted May 19, 2016 Posted May 19, 2016 the goal of new penetrations (which are of course in need of final tuning) is to bring combat closer to history and motivate closer range action, proper positioning and focus fire (especially bow and stern raking) ps will repeat.. some guns need to penetrate better which we plan to tune in hot fixes. But the "clicker heroes" must happen less I don't think you're following what we're saying. We're saying that, right now, fleet actions, practically point blank range, last way too long, shots are bouncing, damage is low and it's not FUN. Has nothing to do with how skilled you are at positioning and aiming, nothing to do with being too far away. And saying that one should go for bow and stern raking is all well and good when we're talking frigates and the like, but pretty much pointless as ships of the line are not the most mobile of ships and anything other than a ship of the line has no chance of even penetrating said ship of the line at this time, with the way the system is. I'm sorry but if I can't penetrate the hull of an enemy vessel when I'm close enough to it that I could throw my feces at them then the system obviously isn't working well. 4
Azzak Posted May 19, 2016 Posted May 19, 2016 (edited) We understand what you mean admin. However I propose that we put aside these historical considerations for one second. Feedback right now is: the game is not fun. Fighting SoL takes too much time and me and my mates don't want to spend 1h30 to do one fleet order - in fact we didn't even had time to finish it. 2 AI ships were fighting far away from us, and we couldn't catch them. Due to damage changes AI ships didn't sunk despite battling each other at close range for 35 min. 35 minutes ! To conclude, for that kind of reward we don't see the point. There is also a problem in PVP : ships are too resistant and it's going to be incredibly hard to dispatch players. How do you win 25vs25 santisima + towers as attackers if sinking one takes forever ? Conclusion of this change, I guess boarding will be the best -only ?- solution to fight efficiency on sea. Common strategy will involve stern raking with grapes with frigates and board with golden marines. Stern raking is good, very good idea, but I hardly see how we can sink ships by stern raking. Sure it does a hell of crew and cannons damage, but that doesn't sink ships. Stern raking is good when smaller ships fight each other, or when smaller ships engage bigger ships to cripple them. But that only doesn't make them sink. Large ships need a way to sink each other somehow; there must be a way to do something different than infinite time line battle or boarding. Edited May 19, 2016 by Azzak 2
Enraged Ewok Posted May 19, 2016 Posted May 19, 2016 May I offer a suggestion drawn from history? Outfit your SoLs with marines and other boarding upgrades, close with and rake the opposing line, then board. 3
Azzak Posted May 19, 2016 Posted May 19, 2016 (edited) I'd glady do that if the game featured a 1st-person shooter with melee combat, where you would board enemy ships with hundred of sailors and marines and clash in beautiful and bloody combat. The game is way more polished regarding cannons broadsides than boarding - which has bare minimum attention. I'm not going to spend my time clicking on a mini game whereas before we could exchange broadsides in exciting combat. Edited May 19, 2016 by Azzak
Enraged Ewok Posted May 19, 2016 Posted May 19, 2016 I'd glady do that if the game featured a 1st-person shooter with melee combat, where you would board enemy ships with hundred of sailors and marines and clash in beautiful and bloody combat. The game is way more polished regarding cannons broadsides than boarding - which has bare minimum attention. I'm not going to spend my time clicking on a mini game whereas before we could exchange broadsides in exciting combat. Then it appears we're at an impass, since all I've seen regarding gunnery combat at every ship rating for the past month was that ships were sinking far to easily and that in real life ships rarely if ever sank to gunfire. Now they don't, so my suggestion is to do as the Brits did in history and go for the general melee and boarding action in large fleet battles. At least then you will have a conclusion to the battle and maybe end it before the 1.5 hour mark Also, I recall a game that had similar boarding combat gameplay to what you described. I recall it being incredibly unforgiving, and being the single player game it was, if you died it was game over and back to your previous save. Somehow I don't think you would enjoy losing your ship on the off-chance a musketeer on the opposing ship put a bullet through your avatar's brain, or a sailor that snuck behind while you engaged his compatriot clubbed you in the head with belaying pin.
admin Posted May 19, 2016 Author Posted May 19, 2016 We understand what you mean admin. However I propose that we put aside these historical considerations for one second. Feedback right now is: the game is not fun. Fighting SoL takes too much time and me and my mates don't want to spend 1h30 to do one fleet order - in fact we didn't even had time to finish it. 2 AI ships were fighting far away from us, and we couldn't catch them. Due to damage changes AI ships didn't sunk despite battling each other at close range for 35 min. 35 minutes ! To conclude, for that kind of reward we don't see the point. There is also a problem in PVP : ships are too resistant and it's going to be incredibly hard to dispatch players. How do you win 25vs25 santisima + towers as attackers if sinking one takes forever ? we don't see reasons for panic most likely reason something does not penetrate some people are reporting 24lb not working etc.. if it is the fact - it will be fixed most guns must penetrate 100m of wood at close ranges unless at low angles 1
DeRuyter Posted May 19, 2016 Posted May 19, 2016 Then it appears we're at an impass, since all I've seen regarding gunnery combat at every ship rating for the past month was that ships were sinking far to easily and that in real life ships rarely if ever sank to gunfire. Now they don't, so my suggestion is to do as the Brits did in history and go for the general melee and boarding action in large fleet battles. At least then you will have a conclusion to the battle and maybe end it before the 1.5 hour mark Boarding combat and melee was not actually all that common. What admin pointed out was the line fighting strategy of sailing parallel to the enemy line often at a fair distance away and just shooting at the opposite ship. What changed as you noted was the aggressive breaking of the enemy line and focusing on a section at a time with close range gunnery including musketry. Ships were often boarded after most of the resistance had been broken and officers killed, etc. If ships of the line are very hard to sink as IRL we need a morale system (IMO).
admin Posted May 19, 2016 Author Posted May 19, 2016 Then it appears we're at an impass, since all I've seen regarding gunnery combat at every ship rating for the past month was that ships were sinking far to easily and that in real life ships rarely if ever sank to gunfire. Now they don't, so my suggestion is to do as the Brits did in history and go for the general melee and boarding action in large fleet battles. At least then you will have a conclusion to the battle and maybe end it before the 1.5 hour mark it was tested before (long time ago) and ships not sinking was leaving a bad feeling of something not working (not fun) thats why structural leaks were introduced etc... currently the problem lies in low close range penetration.. of some guns broadside tanking WILL matter a lot.. but it should not be impossible to destroy the ship 1
SeaMist Posted May 19, 2016 Posted May 19, 2016 My feedback for what it's worth. Two missions tonight two levels below rank. ( Captain) AI now has more ' smarts' and will try and stern camp you if you are in at larger ship. Quite a few other smarter moves too. I still sank one ship with no credit for the kill through leaks. The other ships were much harder to damage but I wasn't taking damage easily either. All up I enjoyed it. Cash and experience from damage were good. Mission difficulty has increased but not like 'before'. Loved the open world telescope. I find the teleport function fabulous now thanks. It's not unreasonable now you can't take goods with you. More like where do I want to play tonight. PVE economy may have fewer goods being transported to capital but if there is enough profit I'm sure someone will step up. All in all so far it's pretty positive.
Jean Ribault Posted May 19, 2016 Posted May 19, 2016 ... AI now has more ' smarts' and will try and stern camp you if you are in at larger ship. ... In my experience they've done this aplenty prior to the patch.
Magnum Posted May 19, 2016 Posted May 19, 2016 Very cool - the birds! Very cool - the Rattlesnake Ultra Extra cool - no TP cooldown!
akd Posted May 19, 2016 Posted May 19, 2016 it was tested before (long time ago) and ships not sinking was leaving a bad feeling of something not working (not fun) thats why structural leaks were introduced etc... Part of the problem is that if you combine ships that don't sink with no reason to surrender you do get very strange outcomes, because crippling a ship doesn't matter at all until you force an end through boarding.
Kanay Posted May 19, 2016 Posted May 19, 2016 Something about clan warehouses : Is there some sort of limitations about the quantities stored there and does it come with an extra fee to open one ? Right now if i extend my warehouse it cost 50k, then 250k then 750k, then 1.5M for only 8 additional slots each time, stopped after the 750k one but always lacking some room in my main outpost ( i got 8 ) , especially with not stacking upgrades and repair kits stacking by 10 only. So instead of paying 1.5M for 8 more slots since i start to be short in room, can i create a clan where I will be the only member, it will cost me 100k only and i will have unlimited storage that i can redeem when i need only ? Using it only as a back storage, kinda. And yes i know about traders storing stuff but being a crafter it takes one precious ship slot as you can only really have 4 slots to store ships and one needs to be almost always free. PS : are the symbol "&" allowed in the clan tag name ? Thanks in advance 1
Enraged Ewok Posted May 19, 2016 Posted May 19, 2016 it was tested before (long time ago) and ships not sinking was leaving a bad feeling of something not working (not fun) thats why structural leaks were introduced etc... Wholeheartedly agreed, my comment was directed towards those who were complaining that ships sinking was unrealistic in the previous patch, and now that ships are much harder to sink I see the complaints that ships should be sinking much faster. I find the complaints jumping from one end of the scale to the other amusing. Boarding combat and melee was not actually all that common. What admin pointed out was the line fighting strategy of sailing parallel to the enemy line often at a fair distance away and just shooting at the opposite ship. What changed as you noted was the aggressive breaking of the enemy line and focusing on a section at a time with close range gunnery including musketry. Ships were often boarded after most of the resistance had been broken and officers killed, etc. If ships of the line are very hard to sink as IRL we need a morale system (IMO). We already have this in a very basic form, however it won't cause a surrender outside of the boarding battle. A ship that is low on crew and gets boarded will have somewhere under 100 morale (not considering boarding upgrades) depending on how much of the crew is gone. I think it would be would be confusing to some players if their ship seemingly randomly surrendered to the enemy before they actually sank though. Regarding the boarding, it comes down to the captain whether he wants to soften up the ship before boarding as was historical, or board the ship from the start if he thinks he has the upgrades to do it.
Kanay Posted May 19, 2016 Posted May 19, 2016 Just noticed how nerfed the reinforced masts upgrades is now :/ From : Mast All Sections - Module Base HP 100% & Sails getting 15% more HP with a gold one It turned into this : While 100% more HP was enormous and probably needed a nerf, now we don't get any sails boost and 2% speed loss on the top if it o_O
admin Posted May 19, 2016 Author Posted May 19, 2016 Just noticed how nerfed the reinforced masts upgrades is now :/ While 100% more HP was enormous and probably needed a nerf, now we don't get any sails boost and 2% speed loss on the top if it o_O because these are masts only masts are reinforced for sails you have to find reinforced sails upgrade 1
Skippy Posted May 19, 2016 Posted May 19, 2016 I love this patch, its awesome Huh, And you added birds flying around land for real (I just saw a couple of them), great
Manta Scorpion Posted May 19, 2016 Posted May 19, 2016 (edited) I m writing this while i try to sink 2 bellonas...sadly i can only penetrate 3 shots per broadside, from more or less any range (out of stern, there everthing is fine) The dmg like before was fine. Now you can actually not take anything down from a medium range, and a bellona or so is from everywhere unkillable. Well you can still board, but lets be honest, rageboarding is lame. But I m sure it is going to change fast. Edited May 19, 2016 by Manta Scorpion 1
Kanay Posted May 19, 2016 Posted May 19, 2016 because these are masts only masts are reinforced for sails you have to find reinforced sails upgrade That's the problem now, finding them ... and in the same quality I just hope you will add possibilities to craft all this stuff in the future, or even select this directly at the ship construction step. Thanks.
Grunhilde Serenity Posted May 19, 2016 Posted May 19, 2016 I'd like to say a massive thanks for the devs, as they apparently took notice of my post in "Little things..." thread. Not mentioned in the notes: Gun laying markers are now visible, much sharper, and striking against water at lower graphical options. Much better, I can aim more accurately now!
Brunwulf Posted May 19, 2016 Posted May 19, 2016 Tried a rake with grape on a 3rd rate that had his stern armor removed. The results were 3 crew killed, and 99% of the shots bouncing off and not registering even a hit. Tried a rake with cannonballs, and managed to kill 32 crew, 4 cannons, and register about 50% of my hits from a full broadside. If you're suggesting this game should turn into a game of chasing each others tails, then that's super boring, and no longer even effective with the current system. I took a screenshots, but apparently hit the wrong key and it's not in my steam cloud 1
Musuko42 Posted May 19, 2016 Posted May 19, 2016 How do you win 25vs25 santisima + towers as attackers if sinking one takes forever ? The answer, I hope, is that the balance of the game will lead to such a battle being extraordinarily rare, if not nearly impossible to stage. This game is striving for realism, and a battle involving fifty first rates and no other ships is hardly realistic! 2
Unsubbed Posted May 19, 2016 Posted May 19, 2016 (edited) it was tested before (long time ago) and ships not sinking was leaving a bad feeling of something not working (not fun) thats why structural leaks were introduced etc... currently the problem lies in low close range penetration.. of some guns broadside tanking WILL matter a lot.. but it should not be impossible to destroy the ship Edit: Love the changes, in theory... Once they work as intended I'm sure it will be fun. Umm... Your hit boxes are WAY off and not just in low close range penetration of 'some' guns. The rounds are PASSING THROUGH ships sides and then I am seeing a noticeable splash INSIDE the enemy ship, and I'm not talking about a miscellaneous 1 or 2 rounds but over 50% of shots aimed at/near the waterline from 12, 24 and 42 lb longs. I see rounds passing through the side of the an enemy 3rd rate that is completely flat at about a 200 yard range with 42 lb longs and not counting as a penetrating shot... again not just 1 or 2 rounds of a broadside, but close to 50-75%. Carronades? O you mean those things that don't even count 1 shot penetrating, even though all shots GRAPHICALLY pass through the side, when you are right on top of the enemy? Those are broken too. If you guys tested this, there must have been some serious drinking occurring before, during and afterward... that or you have test monkeys who are giving you false information. I have only fought 1 battle and noticed immediately how effed up trying to get any penetrating shots at ranges greater than 100 meters is now (and some that are even closer, ie carronades). You have broken your game, maybe someone should look into fixing it before saying 'working as intended'. Edited May 19, 2016 by F4ppinFr3nzy 4
Otsego Posted May 19, 2016 Posted May 19, 2016 Ok sinking ships now is nearly impossible, you can board 5 ships in the same time you sink 1. 1
Tazilon Posted May 19, 2016 Posted May 19, 2016 I realize more work on economy is forthcoming but are patch notes correct? Once inventory of a product at a port reaches 25,000, it stops buying that item. If this won't be changed, please reset inventories. Currently, at Atwood, for example, inventories of compass wood are 275,591. With a consumption of 840 a day, we won't be able to sell compass wood there for another 298 days. While everyone can adjust, it seems inventory resets should accompany such changes in the future.
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