Hethwill, the Red Duke Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 Sadly new damage system is a bad joke. 25v25 Frigates Port Battle. 1,5h is not enough to work required BR advantage. Nice video btw. Just an observation. Most of the combat shown is above 800m. The shots are already at very low energy at that distance. Not a bad distance if you go for rigging ( as per manuals ) but you have to go half that distance to start punishment on the opponents wooden walls. 3
Ysenberg Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 @Lannes: The same happened to me yesterday. I just filed a report, no harm done, not even time wasted since i had a chance to do some experiments sailing-wise. Nonetheless, we aren'T the only ones affected, so it should be adressed. Nobody wants to loose a ship or a Dura due to a bug. Red 2
mikawa Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 Please explain why the changes in invul/invisi/join cooldown should have any effect on the battle screen campers. Yesterday I tested it and it seemed not to have any effect exept for that I couldn't help a mate against a pirate ship, because after quitting an unsuccessful chase I couldn't join in time to help him. But I could choose to "attack" the enemy ship while I was in joining penalty. Why?
Musuko42 Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 This really ruins the flow of combat. It's boring right now, you need to be on top of each other to do any damage. This is more like bigger ship wins now, and having to go side on side at 100m to do any kind of damage is a bit absurd. It ruins the flow of combat for you personally. All the rest that you've said here is, as far as my novice understanding leads me to believe, accurate for naval warfare at the time. You are finding that the game's accuracy is coming at the expense of your enjoyment. I personally find the game fun because it is trying to be accurate. There are plenty of games out there for you to choose from if realism is a detriment for you (Assassin's Creed Black Flag for example). But please don't take this game away from me and others like me; it is so very rare to get a game on this subject that's simulator first, game second, than the usual other way around. "Boring" realistic games can succeed. Kerbal Space Program is one of them. The venerable Flight Simulator series is another. I hope that Naval Action continues to be one. 6
Eishen Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 Please explain why the changes in invul/invisi/join cooldown should have any effect on the battle screen campers. Yesterday I tested it and it seemed not to have any effect exept for that I couldn't help a mate against a pirate ship, because after quitting an unsuccessful chase I couldn't join in time to help him. But I could choose to "attack" the enemy ship while I was in joining penalty. Why? Said it yourself "after quitting an unsuccessful chase I couldn't join in time to help him." so if yu get out of a battle you cannot join another... grey-screen campers can no more use the "bait" trick coming out of nowhere to join your battle , sure they can initate an attack in a shorter time but that is not even remotely as exploiting , as you have ample time to see them and fins a better position 1
Eishen Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 What happened to resource prizes? Compass Wood in Pedro Cay dropped to 1 Gold / piece. seems you missed this.. Tunings: Ports will stop buying resources if NPC stock exceeds 25000 - further changes to economy will be done in the next patch
LeBoiteux Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 You don't need a spyglass at all to find the mission crossed swords. Visibility of those is way better now!! That was the first thing I noticed when I left port today. You can see them everywhere without any aid. But it helps seeing mission crossed swords at long range you couldn't see otherwise. That was what I meant. But everyone entitled to their own opinion. Indeed
fox2run Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 It ruins the flow of combat for you personally. All the rest that you've said here is, as far as my novice understanding leads me to believe, accurate for naval warfare at the time. You are finding that the game's accuracy is coming at the expense of your enjoyment. I personally find the game fun because it is trying to be accurate. There are plenty of games out there for you to choose from if realism is a detriment for you (Assassin's Creed Black Flag for example). But please don't take this game away from me and others like me; it is so very rare to get a game on this subject that's simulator first, game second, than the usual other way around. "Boring" realistic games can succeed. Kerbal Space Program is one of them. The venerable Flight Simulator series is another. I hope that Naval Action continues to be one. Maybe so... but still... most players that have interest in these kind of game are older gamers with historical interests. They usually have jobs, families etc. and cannot spend too long in front of a pc screen everyday. So in order to suceed you need to trade: realism versus gameplay. It has to balance. Too much simulation will take too much time (i.e. a ship of the line maybe saw one or two battles in their lifetime - no fun waiting that long). It also has to be FUN. Sinking, killing, capturing, burning, exploding ships around you is much more FUN than shooting balls for hours on end with little or no result (like in real life).... Most players like to see the action of lets say Trafalgar boiled down to an hour or so... Maybe its not THAT historical correct, but as a naval historian, I like to experience a FUN game. 100% realism I find in the historical sources at work... ;-) 3
Kronans Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 Chapman's Indiaman will the AI use thise as the rest of traiders or is it only bp that it can be obtaind?
Quaeckernaeck Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 I personally really like the feel of the new damage system, especially the moment I realized that small guns are no longer a significant threat to a bigger ship, which makes even a 4th rate feel much more powerful even though it will still get destroyed easily by equal size or bigger ships. I think it's too early to say if battles are too slow now (or rather if it's too easy to play defensive and drag out a battle). More testing needed. Here are some observations from the first day of action: 1) Lack of stern armor seems to be counted as "leaking", prevent one from leaving a battle early, even though no leaks or water accumulation is shown. Using a repair kit allows the exit countdown timer to start. "Fix" was replicated by multiple people. 2) Leaks balance. I was sailing an Ingermanland and was jumped by a Belle Poule and two Renomees. The Belle Poule rammed me nearly head on (lost her bow, then I believe used a repair kit and had to retire from the battle promptly). That ram gave my Inger two leaks, each 160+ crew to fix. By the time my crew finished shifting from sailing and gunnery to survival, the ship had taken on so much water that it only stabilized at 502 crew in repair (of the 515 crew I had on the ship). If I had not had the Crew Space trim and basic hammocks, I would have lost the ship. It honestly does not seem like overkill to have to dedicate 320 men to fix damage from a ram, but the fact that the leaks do not start repairing when 320 (or whatever) crew are working survival means that it is almost impossible to plug serious leaks as the flow of crew to survival may be more tightly restricted than the flow of water into the hull.. A trinc with carronades causing a lot of leaks can almost instantly sink a ship from full health if a good portion of the broadside creates leaks due to this mechanic. There is no counter-play. If you do cannot avoid rolling due to wind, you cannot defend against this tactic once the enemy gets into position next to you, and even then... 3) Damage to cannons is hard to quantify, especially as I was not looking out for it, but the amount of cannons lost and destroyed did *feel* high for all parties involved. I don't know if it's specifically a problem where long range shots take out too many cannons relative to the damage they otherwise inflict, but certainly cannons were being lost at a different rate than before and it was strange.
Cpt Blackthorne Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 Hey folks, after doing several battles yesterday (after patch) i just can say: Carronades / Medium Guns not usefull any more Long canons - wow, killing everything on long distance without getting damage Losing crew/canons like beeing shot by grape in normal battle - (broadside&balls) Smaller ships do not have any chance vs bigger on lange range any more Losing crew/canons when getting damage is on a super high rate The damage model as it is now needs to be reworked! Smaller Ships on distance do not even have a chance vs bigger ships anymore. I let a Renommee at long range shot like 10-15 broadsides on my Constitution, lost 2% armor. Just Stern is very vulnerable. Fitted Medium Guns / Carronades to test them, horrible result! Need to be very, very close to have a good pen/damage result, losing armor/crew/guns on a very high rate (again vs Renommee). Short: Just fit long guns, others useless. Go for stern bigger ships, kill smaller ships with super snipe on long distance. Yay, great new battles. This is how testing should be done. Nice of you to actually go head-to-head for tests and share clear results. I am certain a pen+ will be added in a drop soon.
Cpt Blackthorne Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 Please explain why the changes in invul/invisi/join cooldown should have any effect on the battle screen campers. Yesterday I tested it and it seemed not to have any effect exept for that I couldn't help a mate against a pirate ship, because after quitting an unsuccessful chase I couldn't join in time to help him. But I could choose to "attack" the enemy ship while I was in joining penalty. Why? Were you truly unsuccessful at the AI chase? Or were you hiding in battle while your mate baited the enemy? This is why I personally like the new cooldown between battles. Just long enough to prevent insta-baiters, and yet manageable if you and your mate time them correctly. 2
Kronans Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 was the hot fix doing more then stop ppl to use there outposts if they are in enemy hands?
surfimp Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 CANNOT LEAVE I outdistanced my AI pursuers for over an HOUR and still could not leave. I had to wait until the whole game timer expired. I nearly did, too. I reported it as a BUG, in battle. Has anyone else had this problem? Yep, even though I wasn't taking on water, and didn't have a leak. I think it's either some kind of rounding error - i.e. there's some tiny, undetectable-in-the-UI amount of water left in your ship from an earlier, repair leak that is still counting as "taking on water" (the thing that prevents the timer from resetting as of 9.8) or else it's just a straight up bug. Either way, I'm reporting them via F11. 1
vjrs01 Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 Excellent modifications; well done. It is really nice to own and play a game that is so actively managed, and is is evolving. 3
Jean Ribault Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 ... But where are my whales and dolphins and sea lions and manta rays! No naval combat game can possibly be considered anywhere close to complete without a full seaborne menagerie!... Hmm, and don't forget the mermaids and sirens I requested - would've gone nicely with the new OW spyglass feature ! Also, not pointing fingers but regarding finding missions in the OW - has that really been a problem for people? Like any other navigation you look for landmarks, or just leave port, and you know where you are, then sail in the general direction and eventually you spot the cross-swords, weather notwithstanding. No real challenge there IMHO. So now you can spot them earlier, but does anyone really need to? 3
Eishen Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 (edited) Hmm, and don't forget the mermaids and sirens I requested - would've gone nicely with the new OW spyglass feature ! Also, not pointing fingers but regarding finding missions in the OW - has that really been a problem for people? Like any other navigation you look for landmarks, or just leave port, and you know where you are, then sail in the general direction and eventually you spot the cross-swords, weather notwithstanding. No real challenge there IMHO. So now you can spot them earlier, but does anyone really need to? me...... when I have no external interactive map that is No big problem finding the first when exiting port but when you have more than one trying to find route to another one if they are not coastal is some(many)times tricky eagrly awaiting for the mermaids Edited May 20, 2016 by Eishen
Jean Ribault Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 (edited) me...... when I have no external interactive map that is No big problem finding the first when exiting port but when you have more than one trying to find route to another one if they are not coastal is some(many)times tricky Like I said not pointing fingers, I've never found it a problem. Not exactly sure what external interactive map means? I use only the game map tools provided, I don't have anything else that I use to find things. I'm sure there are some 3rd party tools, but I don't think they are necessary for finding missions. It does however sometimes seem like when you select multiple missions at once they wind up in the most INconvenient locations with respect to each other, doesn't it? Edited May 20, 2016 by Jean Ribault
Ink Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 Yep, even though I wasn't taking on water, and didn't have a leak. I think it's either some kind of rounding error - i.e. there's some tiny, undetectable-in-the-UI amount of water left in your ship from an earlier, repair leak that is still counting as "taking on water" (the thing that prevents the timer from resetting as of 9.8) or else it's just a straight up bug. Either way, I'm reporting them via F11. It must have been fixed - do you mean yesterday case or it happened today after maintanance?
Quineloe Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 (edited) was the hot fix doing more then stop ppl to use there outposts if they are in enemy hands? The hot fix is supposed to allow players to leave a battle if they are taking less water than their pump can handle. You couldn't leave if you lost your bow armor, which is very little water intake. It must have been fixed - do you mean yesterday case or it happened today after maintanance? There's sometimes 1 pixel of water left when your men abandon the pump. Since we can't force them back, that just stays there forever. Edited May 20, 2016 by Quineloe 1
surfimp Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 (edited) It must have been fixed - do you mean yesterday case or it happened today after maintanance? It was yesterday (day of patch) about 30min before maintenance. Glad to hear it's fixed EDIT: WHALES CONFIRMED Rock whales, anyways... Edited May 20, 2016 by Sansón Carrasco 2
shaeberle84 Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 Changes in battle entry, reinforcements, and capital waters Captains wont be able to enter battles immediately after log in, port exit or sitting in battle result screens. To do that the system of invis/invul has beend changed. After login or port exit or battle exit you will not be able attack or be attacked for 30 seconds. 120 sec invulnerability timer wont let you enter battles. This will completely solve hiding in battles issues. Positional reinforcements system has changed closer to the old method. Captains wont be able to position themselves ahead of the enemy. Captains can only reinforce battles from defined zones that will be visualized on the map. Capital water protection system changed. You can attack enemy ships in your capital waters. Not only that. That battle will be opened for 1.5 hours and reinforcements will be fully positional during the whole battle time. The positional reinforcement system together with the 2 minute open world battle timer is very problematic. It can be the case that you are very close to the battle, but that you cannot enter, if you need to sail to the other side of the circle under bad wind. Also, the joining positions are sometimes very bad, even if you had a "nice" tag. The positions can be downwind even if you tagged upwind etc. In effect, we need a new mechanic, where it should be possible to join for a much longer time, but the position will get worse the later you join. 2
DrZoidberg Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 Sort brief from me: teleport: should be "free" from the start, late but must! spyglass on see: late but need! new dmg model: destroyed the fun what teleport should give us back! must change briefly or it destroy the game aswell! Dear developers! My friend, Lord Vader told me something like that: this was thier fault before the last! I dunno, what he meant
surfimp Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 (edited) Regarding positional reinforcements: the new zones haven't yet completely fixed the situation which I believe they were meant to correct. Last night, outside Santa Cruz on the south side of Cuba, I spotted a British player Connie with sails down standing outside port. Thinking he was too far away to make it to battle before the 2min join timer elapsed, I went ahead and initiated battle with an AI Trader Lynx. Not only was the Connie able to join the battle before the timer closed (fast Connie!), but he wound up spawning into the battle instance in the S/SW side despite coming from the N / NE side in the OW... basically the same issue we used to have with positional reinforcements prior to 9.8 So, I think there may still need to be some tweaking to this new system. I will try to capture video the next time it happens as well as report via F11. Edited May 20, 2016 by Sansón Carrasco
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